Yeeesh - way over tightened

Discussion in 'Regulators' started by InTheDrink, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. InTheDrink

    InTheDrink Surface Interval Member

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    Hi,

    A kindly guide decided to replace a frayed o-ring in my LP port last month. Without telling me.

    I've just tried to remove the hose as I want to replace it. I cannot for love nor money get it off. It is way over tightened. I'm just wrecking the metal now trying to unscrew it and there'll be no threads for a spanner or wrench to grip on soon.

    Am wondering what's the best approach here? WD40? Is that ok to use? Soapy water? Any other ways to get the damn thing unscrewed.

    Thanks,
    John
     
  2. Bubbletrubble

    Bubbletrubble Regular of the Pub

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    I'd try an extended soak in warm water. If it still doesn't come off, take it to a nearby LDS. You're replacing the hose, so worst case scenario is that they/you have to use vise grips on the hose nut and the hose is unusable after the "intervention."

    FWIW, it would help to not be using an adjustable wrench. Crappy ones can open up a little when force is applied and lead to stripping the nut. A good-quality, appropriately sized non-adjustable wrench is a better option.

    At a reg shop, they'll have a first stage handle that can be inserted into an open HP or LP port. The handle can then be set in a benchtop vise. This will give the tech more leverage. Resorting to this really shouldn't be necessary with a reg hose, though.

    I haven't had much experience with stuck reg hoses. As you already know, all that's required is hand-tight installation of the hose into the LP port followed by a smidge of tool-tightening. Don't let the guy who overtightened the hose near your reg ever again. :D

    Good luck.
     
  3. InTheDrink

    InTheDrink Surface Interval Member

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    Cheers Bubble.

    Yeah I won't let that person touch my gear again. I mean it is tight like you cannot believe.

    I'll give it a soak in soapy water in case any salt crystals aren't helping the situation. Failing that bring it down the sole remaining LDS in my area. But I've already tried all the tools you've just advised against and I can verify that your advice is indeed correct. Nut is fairly well stripped. And I wouldn't risk using the hose again now after the dance I had with it in the bedroom earlier. Pretty hard to get leverage cos the first stage is hard to pin down stationary.

    Will see how the soapy water goes. BTW - are WD40 or other oil based lubricants a no-no with first stages? Sorry for my ignorance.


    Thanks,

    J
     
  4. willembad

    willembad Nassau Grouper

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    Mount the first stage on a tank to keep it stationary. Works just as well as any first stage holder tool.

    Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk
     
  5. Bubbletrubble

    Bubbletrubble Regular of the Pub

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    I wouldn't get WD40 anywhere near my reg. It's a petroleum-based product that is flammable and really hard to remove. It will likely displace any o-ring lubricant that it comes into contact with. My concern would be damaging the rest of the reg, which appears to be functioning just fine.

    I would prefer soaking the reg in warm water over soaking in soapy water. The detergent will not harm the chrome or plastic parts, but, theoretically, it can remove o-ring lubricant. Probably not the best idea unless you plan to overhaul the reg in the very near future.

    If you're going to be working on regs, it can be very helpful to obtain a first stage handle. The one sold by Scubatools.com is a good quality one. It can be mounted in a benchtop vise or used with the included T-handle for hand repairs. Alternatively, you can screw an empty threaded CO2 cartridge (3/8" threads) into an open port. I highly recommend that you use a port adapter like the one on this page (7/16" to 3/8" adapter) in case the neck of the CO2 cartridge snaps off -- it simplifies removal of the broken part from the first stage.

    The three methods of loosening stuck reg parts include: chemical, heat, and mechanical means. I recommend using a combination of heat and mechanical means. I'd be willing to bet that if you soaked the reg in warm water and then used an empty CO2 cartridge to give you a better grip (or mounted the first stage on a tank as willembad suggests), you could loosen the stuck hose nut with a non-adjustable wrench.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  6. InTheDrink

    InTheDrink Surface Interval Member

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    Can you lend me a tank then please ;)

    I'm still building up my kit: wetsuit and tank are next targets.

    J
     
  7. Web Monkey

    Web Monkey Omniheurist ScubaBoard Supporter

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    It's unlikely that over-tightening is causing the problem. It's much more likely that it's corroded or has salt (or something else) in the threads.

    A nice long soak in warm water might help, but it's almost certain that more force isn't the answer.

    Terry
     
  8. luckydays

    luckydays Loggerhead Turtle

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    are you turning it the right way? :D

    Righty - tighty, lefty - loosey
     
  9. InTheDrink

    InTheDrink Surface Interval Member

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    Yeah, I triple checked that one and took of some of the other hoses just to be COMPLETELY sure. But the thought did cross my mind!!! :D

    J
     
  10. InTheDrink

    InTheDrink Surface Interval Member

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    Ok thanks. One of the buttons on my stinger was stuck for a year or so until I started showering with it and it appears the shampoo dissolved whatever it was that was jamming it (salt I imagine). I'll try the same here but given that none of the other nuts are stuck and I know this one was removed a month ago, and the kit was really well washed by me afterwards, I'm struggling to see how it isn't over tightening. But whatever it is, it just is not budging. I actually think it was probably one of the boat hands rather than the guide that swapped it round. If they tighten nuts any way similar to how they drive the boats then this outcome is entirely predictable.

    Anyhow, will get it sorted. And will definitely keep the WD40 for my bike chain and unloosening other joins that I'm unlikely to be breathing from anytime soon :D

    Cheers,
    J
     
  11. Bubbletrubble

    Bubbletrubble Regular of the Pub

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    Um. You may want to reconsider using WD40 on your bike chain. Read this webpage. The guy looks like he knows what he's talking about. :dontknow:

    Good luck with the reg. You never mentioned why you wanted to change out the hose. Another option is just to use the reg as-is until it needs to be overhauled. Then, the reg tech would have to worry about how to remove the darn hose. ;) Have him install the new one.
     
  12. InTheDrink

    InTheDrink Surface Interval Member

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    Jeez, aren't you the proper merchant of doom? I'm gonna start getting nervous about posting anything now in case you have a link that shows how it's going to kill me or break my kit. Thankfully I don't use my splits anymore so I should be insulated from that particular hazard :D

    But thanks for the top tips!! Next time I'm looking to fix a puncture I'll definitely PM you :D

    I'm changing the hose cos it's too long and annoying. I just got my first BP/W today (read this locked thread here if you're an insomniac http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu...ht-systems/324907-ditching-poodle-jacket.html) after a 32 day wait courtesy of our (UK) postal service. Anyhow, the hose that comes with that fits wel [in terms of length], the old one doesn't. So I wanted to change it. I've just stuck it in a different lp port for the moment and will get the other one removed either by soap and myself or increasingly likely by someone who knows what they're doing. Regs are pretty new (12 months) so not planning to get them serviced unless I believe they need to be.

    J
     
  13. Bubbletrubble

    Bubbletrubble Regular of the Pub

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    Well, if stating that WD40 should not be used on scuba regulators makes me a "merchant of doom," I'll accept that title with a smile. :D
    Sadly I don't know much about punctures. I bet that your big can of WD40 probably won't help, though. :crafty:
     
  14. captain

    captain Orca

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    Get a 6 point tubing wrench to avoid tearing up the the hose fitting flats. I am afraid force and possibly ruined hose or worse may be the end result.
    If air isn't leaking out then no type of liquid such as soapy water is going type get into the treads and it is unusual to find corrosion in the threads unless water got into the regulator through the filter.
     
  15. Aigtbootbp

    Aigtbootbp Barracuda

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    Wow, the old WD40 debate. If you really want to get into that one just hit any of the motorcycle enthusiast sites and ask about it as chain lube.
    Anyway, as a 20yr mechanic I would suggest heating the reg up in some hot water then using a thick piece of leather carefully clamp the reg in a vise (lightly!!!) the using a line wrench (they know what they are at any parts store) try backing it out. If that fails then it is time for the vise grips or pipe wrench. You will destroy the fitting but you should be able to get it out. If somehow you break it off in there then try an easy-out (better yet, get someone with experience using them) and back it out.
    Good luck!
     
  16. scubafanatic

    scubafanatic Great White

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    ...based on your past 'luck' in the shower, have you tried showering with the reg ?
     
  17. InTheDrink

    InTheDrink Surface Interval Member

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    Until this evening I thought WD40 was possibly the planet's salvation and that if only they had it in the middle east then we'd get some results. Clearly the situation is more complex than this and they need soap and water too. And possible some leather although I struggle with them needing more heat.

    I think I've damaged the host connection enough now and after one last try after soaking I'm gonna take it to people with the correct equipment to try to fix it.

    Cheers,
    John
     
  18. awap

    awap Giant Squid

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    The only thing I would add is, if the hose is toast then cut if off to get it out of the way. Then, after everything is hot, dip just the hose end into ice-water and then giove it a shot. I would try to mount the reg in a vise with the hose end pointing downward so I could apply cold to just the hose end. I would then use an ice cube rather than ice water. And , I would probably go right to strong vise grips on the hose end and use a rubber mallet to tap the vise grips if hand pressure did not do the job. Don't use excessive force with the mallet - tap rather than slam. And if it does not work right away, repeat the hot and cold treatments an try again. Oh, and with the fitting upside down, check twice on the lefty loosey. I always had to pause a moment to think about that whenever I was laying under a car.
     
  19. Cave Diver

    Cave Diver Moderator Staff Member

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    Hopefully they didn't cross thread it.
     
  20. Puffer Fish

    Puffer Fish Captain Happy ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Might want to stay away from the WD40... not good stuff around things you plan to breath from.
     

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