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Efficiency?
If what this means is shortened deco time, breathing the highest pp02 with tolerable toxicity is a proven way to accelerate decompression from inert gas loads

80 vs 100% 02 at Stop 20'
In the time frame of decompression, the choice is over a risk of 02 convulsions, and less about pulmonary toxicity. Is the risk of 02 convulsions greater with pp02 of 1.6 versus 1.3 at decompression? In deco, of little consequence, so risks being equal, the higher pp02 is better. See below for explanation.

Background Info:

O2 Convulsion Studies
Since 1947, across a range of pp02 with most at pp02 > 3, no air breaks. Convulsions occurred in ~100% of subjects up to a maximum period per pp02, but on repeated trials the same subjects convulsed at different times within a maximum period. The only constant was that periods when 100% of test subjects convulsed were earlier as the pp02 rose. For example, at a pp02 of 3.5, subject 1 seized 10minutes into the exposure. All subjects seized within 60minutes. After a break rest, the test is repeated, subject 1 seizes in 5 minutes, all subjects seized within 60 minutes. After a break, test is repeated, subject 1 now seizes in 50 minutes, while all subjects seize within 60 minutes.

02 convulsions thus, do not begin at the end of a clocked period per pp02 such as made out in NOAA limits; it becomes possible immediately past a threshold pp02. When subjects convulse varies for the same individual doing the same pp02 exposure at a different time: it may be less, unchanged or more.

The plotted shape of 02 toxicity, whether convulsions or minor ones labeled in recreational nitrox as "VENTID," were X = maximum time to toxicity, Y = pp02, appears as a rectangular hyperbola. For decompression or treatment purposes experts agreed that for safety a pp02 < 3 is a trade off, at ~ knee of curve, but as the shape shows its smooth there is no sharp cut off.

The image is on the upper right of the link, image with caption xy=1 in Quadrant 1 : http://mathworld.wolfram.com/RectangularHyperbola.html


Convulsions are rarer if pp02 < 2. Tolerance to pp02 at this level is high and made even higher with normoxic breaks, such that the principle concern is not convulsions, but pulmonary toxicity.

Dr. Edmonds has > 10 years experience is using pp02 2.0 and instituted this level as the pp02 of an in-water recompression protocol.

http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/AQUAcorps/Bent/inwater/Edmunds.htm

A review of others is:
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/treks/palautz97/iwr.html


At this point, we should really refer to pulmonary toxicity as whole body toxicity, since the lungs are just a manifestation divers feel of the effects of 02 throughout the entire body.

Being such, were do _you_ draw the line on a safe pp02? Dr. Vann summarized issues ~ that haven't changed much since 1992{?}, here's a copy:
http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/AQUAcorps/rebreather/OxygenExposure.htm

In conclusion, its very likely convulsions ARE related to a build up of an unknown byproduct of high pp02 exposure beyond the body's capacity to repair it [ thus pp02 > 3 inevitable leads to convulsions] AND can be accelerated or work synergistically with products of exertion, such as andrenaline release and C02 build up.


NOAA Nitrox Limits
NOAA threshold of 1.4 and the exceptional threshold of 1.6 were judgments by an expert panel and used to limit bottom mix pp02. These thresholds are for "normal" diving activity [or working dives], not in the resting state of decompression. There have been rare reported seizures on these pp02, so recommendations as far back as before 1995, were to lower it to about 1.2, of which few experts disagree.

The NOAA clock is modeled after convulsion studies. However, once past a threshold pp02, the risk of convulsions is more random, thus whether the per-dive time limit is true or not is moot in regards to CNS toxicity. However, one should track their total time, in regards to whole body toxicity in technical level dives.

FWIW there were many USN studies on 02 rebreathers that are similar to the NOAA clock, and these form part of the rationale behind the per dive exposure limits for NOAA table pp02 such as pp02 of 1.6 for 45 minutes. The end point was not 02 convulsions, such as the older convulsion studies, the end point was the development of VENTID in working dives in test subjects [with some subjects actually convulsing.] Again, these limits are for working dives.

Whole body toxicity is first felt by divers as burning in the chest, but its very unlikely the lungs undergo a full recovery with a normoxic break between exposures. The mechanism of action for for normoxic breaks is unclear, but it does work in delaying manifestations of whole body oxygen toxicity. Yes, you can diminish your risk of 02 convulsions by plugging normoxic breaks between you high pp02 exposure, whether its bottom mix or deco mix.

How long is recovery? Vital Capacity recovers in most people within 24 hours, it can be as long as 5 days. If DLCO is a measure of recovery, its likely full recovery is in at ~ 7-14 days. Post a recompression treatment, the return to diving period was arbitrarily set to twice that, what experts feel was enough time for residual bubbles to dissipate and for the body, such as the lungs, to recuperate.

What is there to worry about with repeated high pp02 exposures whether its from deco or high pp02 bottom mix? At minimum, accelerated deterioration of lung elasticity. Rebreather divers exposed to constant pp02 <= 1.3 have suffered month long injuries to their eyes, specifically retinas and lens, which appear to be reversible, for now. There are many others, but these two would be most noticeable to divers. FWIW changes in retina function is noticeable by electronic testing in dry dives before vision changes are noted by divers.

Take Home Message:

A resting state is key to tolerating high pp02, such as in decompression. Backgas breaks do delay toxicity and its physiologic rationale at this point is moot

There is data to suggest in water decompression can be tolerated up to a pp02 < 2.0

Divers shouldn't be lured into a false sense of security of a clock in using pp02 >= 1.4, a risk of convulsions can occur at any time in working dives

Bottom mix pp02 are safer pp02 < 1.2 and are limited by pulmonary toxicity

It probably unncessary, as time for sleep during a dive safari provides enough normoxic breaks to keep whole body toxicity at bay. But if one is engaged in doing a week long series of repeated decompression dives, tracking one's OTU is effortless .. most deco software do this. The main rationale for tracking OTUs is if remotely diver will need recompression during this period, the chamber operator can estimate just how much "frying" the bent diver's lungs are going to endure if he has pre-treatment OTU numbers in hand.
 
Every 20 to 25 minutes u make a 5 minutes air break if u are doing an extended range dive and if u are doing a Trimix dive u do a 5 minutes break on the other Nitrox mix u have, I believe this is what your asking for . and this is your short small tiny answer .


And one more thing, this is my personal opinion,
That when u take 100% O2 at 6 or 5 meters, this is
Not bad it will cut your deco big time, but what
Do I believe that cos u are having to much O2 the
Circulation of blood in the vain will be slower, and
On the other hand the Off gassing will be slower ,
So I prefer not to use the 100% but maybe 80%, and
After I finish all my deco and its time to surface, I go
Then to the 100% O2 the house that comes form the
Boat and I take 5 to 6 minutes then I surface. But this
Is not included to the plan its only an extra safety thing
What i just said is not form books, but all my tek divers
Friends and me do the same, and we believe its better, maybe
Some one has an other point of view, but we are doing fine
Until now like this.
 
wazza once bubbled...
And one more thing, this is my personal opinion,
That when u take 100% O2 at 6 or 5 meters, this is
not bad it will cut your deco big time, . . .
On the other hand the off-gassing will be slower.
Hi Wazza,

I realise English is not your first language but I could understand most of your post. However, are you not contradicting yourself here?

Saturation once bubbled
NOAA threshold of 1.4 and the exceptional threshold of 1.6 were judgments by an expert panel . . . The NOAA clock is modeled after convulsion studies. However, once past a threshold pp02, the risk of convulsions is more random, thus whether the per-dive time limit is true or not is moot in regards to CNS toxicity.
After such an excellent post it is hard for someone with such very limited experience as myself not to sound pedantic. I am sorry to press you Saturation, but are you also suggesting that as CNS oxtox is a random event NOAA CNS exposure limits are really "guesstimates"?
 
To my knowledge, CNS oxygen toxicity is a random event whose time-to-event will shorten as the oxygen partial pressure increases.

There may be factors which can further define the time limits but these are currently not known.

Dr Deco :doctor:
 
at Ginnie last year that resulted in the death of the toxed diver (allegedly cave-certified by guess-which-agency) - bottom mix was 1.56 or so PO2 at maximum depth, but she was not there long (under 10 minutes) and toxed on the way out, with the PO2 well under that, and quite a bit of time (10 minutes or more) had passed since the maximum exposure. I've heard different PO2s where she actually toxed, anywhere from 0.8 to a bit over 1.0.

I've tried to dig up more detailed info about this incident because it is personally interesting to me in that the "common wisdom" is that your succeptability decreases radically once you leave the >1.0 PO2 realm, and that a few minutes after doing so you're essentially immune to a tox hit. As this incident shows, that's not exclusively true - the exact profile and exposure she took is of interest to me for that reason, but I haven't been able to dig it up.
 
Genesis once bubbled...
at Ginnie last year that resulted in the death of the toxed diver (allegedly cave-certified by guess-which-agency) - bottom mix was 1.56 or so PO2 at maximum depth, but she was not there long (under 10 minutes) and toxed on the way out, with the PO2 well under that, and quite a bit of time (10 minutes or more) had passed since the maximum exposure. I've heard different PO2s where she actually toxed, anywhere from 0.8 to a bit over 1.0.

Did you hear this from your reliable sources over on the Techdiver list?
 
Dr Paul Thomas once bubbled... After such an excellent post it is hard for someone with such very limited experience as myself not to sound pedantic. I am sorry to press you Saturation, but are you also suggesting that as CNS oxtox is a random event NOAA CNS exposure limits are really "guesstimates"?

No problem at all Dr. Thomas, I'm not so sure my posts are clear so I'd be happy to explain any items as time allows.

I second Dr. Deco's statement that CNS toxicity is effectively a 'random event' over a pp02 > 1.0, with risk greater as the pp02 increases. The question is where is the threshold for CNS toxicity? As in all biological systems, the cutoff is likely a line on a curve, so staying below it does not eliminate risk.

In the lab, Lambertsen put it at 2.0. In water, the upper limit has been 1.6 based on rare reports of convulsions. One problem is that co-factors, such as co2, enhance the effects of pp02 to make convulsions more likely.

USN bottom mix pp02 limit is < 1.4 without a CNS clock, bottom times limited by NSL on USN air tables using the EAD method.

So, the CNS toxicity threshold maybe at 1.4 in water for healthy individuals.

As divers age there is a tendency to retain c02 during dives so in the civilian population, vigilance is needed to monitor for signs of CNS toxicity among recreational nitrox users and adjust the pp02 lower still.

DAN reaffirmed the value of the CNS clock and VENTID, and yes, 'expert' panels are a 'guesstimate' by experts

http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/truthnitrox/

There are no reports of CNS oxtox at pp02 < 1.4 in recreational divers as of the 2002 DAN report.

Recorded fatalities in 2002 are for pp02 >= 1.4. These cases are recent vintage. DAN's statistics are 2 years old by the time of publication.

http://www.iucrr.org/20020309_01.htm
Summary: a cave dive with strong inbound current ~ 102' max, 37 or 38% 02 worse case pp02 1.63 exposure ~ 45min maximum, prior to turning the dive. Convulsions occurred ~30 min later at a shallower outbound depth, likely pp02 1.0-1.3 [key Hole at Ginnie Springs], suggestive of an 'off oxygen effect' see below. Victim died.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/divingaccidents/message/85

In this 2002 Croatia case, victim breathed pp02 of 2.3 for 17 minutes before convulsions, and continued to convulse even at shallower depths. Victim survived.

Opinion for Consideration:

An avoidable factor in the "random" appearance of CNS toxicity past a cutoff pp02 in divers is exertion, a known association with o2 convulsions. Technical divers tolerate higher pp02 at deco well [ calm, restful state, and shallower depth diminishes gas density, and work of breathing.]

Since 02 convulsions and VENTID have no relationship and can occur anytime past the threshold pp02, staying away from a threshold pp02 and avoiding exertion are the only preventative measures a diver can take.

Once a seizure threshold is reached, convulsion are possible even if the patient is asymptomatic breathing the high pp02; these seizures can be trigger by breathing a lower pp02 thereafter, called the 'off oxygen effect' and may have happened in the Ginnie fatality. Thus, past the point of no return, there is no guarantee of escaping a seizure by returning to a lower pp02. Retinal electrical activity changes and peripheral vision loss suggests CNS alterations occurs way before overt signs and symptoms. However, no specific test forecasts an 02 convulsion.

Normoxic breaks can improve tolerance to VERY high pp02, so a typical 1 hour surface interval more than resets whatever CNS clock exists within the scope of sport dives.

The threshold for safe pp02 could be lowered for conditions such as in deep dives or diving into currents, taking into account increasing gas densities and c02 retention.

In the Ginnie case, seizures occurred ~ 30 minutes past the clock limit of pp02 1.6 despite breathing a much lower pp02.

In the Croatia case, the trainee seized repeatedly even after brought to a shallow depth.

Take Home message:

Keep pp02 < 1.4, lower is better

Ignore the CNS clock

Be vigilant about CNS toxicity symptoms for pp02 > 1.0

Cultivate a zen state in water

Avoid exertion

Should shortness of breath occur, rest, hyperventilate [ better increase your MVV] and if dyspnea remains, lower your pp02 exposure quickly

Note: Exposure to bottom mix pp02<= 1.2 as typical were proposed since the early 1990s. I would heed this recommendation.
 
Saturation once bubbled...

Keep pp02 < 1.4, lower is better

Ignore the CNS clock

Be vigilant about CNS toxicity symptoms for pp02 > 1.0

Cultivate a zen state in water

Avoid exertion

Should shortness of breath occur, rest, hyperventilate [ better increase your MV] and if dyspnea remains, lower your pp02 exposure quickly

Note: Exposure to bottom mix pp02<= 1.2 as typical were proposed since the early 1990s. I would heed this recommendation.
I entirely agree with you, Saturation, and it frustrates me that many instructors and dive marshalls here treat the CNS oxygen clock as gospel.

As an aside, as you know, any healthy individual can have a surface fit, more than two fits points to a possible diagnosis of epilepsy. These rare events you report may have been in sub-clinical epileptic subjects with a higher than normal tendency towards fitting. (No pre-dive test for that.)

I am convinced CO2 is the major factor as I have posted elswhere on this site. I am going away for a day or two but will PM you with the reference when I get back as I would greatly value your comments.
 
This is a graph of data from Donald. It has been posted before and shows the variability of time to seizure in a single individual. This is one reason that the Oxygen Tolerance Test is no longer administered.

Dr Deco :doctor:
 
400% variation over a few days with reasonable confidence, and outliers up to 1600% variation? :eek:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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