Fatality at The Blue Hole, Belize
- Thread starter AWMIII
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
"Further investigation revealed that Piper had undergone a triple bypass surgery last year as he suffered from heart problems. His condition was not reported to the dive company prior to the dive as persons suffering from heart conditions are not allowed to dive."
If I have a triple bypass then it is time to sell my gear and watch my grandson grow up.
If I have a triple bypass then it is time to sell my gear and watch my grandson grow up.
Saltyhawg
Contributor
If he had no muscle damage and no arhythmias he was probably in better shape than most his age (if the surgery was a year ago).
Doesn't sound depth related as it sounds like it happened in the first staging area of the dive on the lip of the hole. We did that dive a few weeks ago with Amigos Del Mar. They were very safety conscious, had a good dive plan and had two DM's with each dive group. One leading and one bringing up the rear.
Doesn't sound depth related as it sounds like it happened in the first staging area of the dive on the lip of the hole. We did that dive a few weeks ago with Amigos Del Mar. They were very safety conscious, had a good dive plan and had two DM's with each dive group. One leading and one bringing up the rear.
ZombieZombie
Registered
Good comments on the heart risk issue.
I had a heart attack 4 years ago (the day before going on a dive trip). I was doing a half marathon cross country and pushed myself just too hard for someone in his mid forties who hadn't trained for a few months due to work commitments. Stupidly I still wanted to beat my time on the same course the previous year.
Anyway, I got excellent and very rapid treatment which prevented any measurable damage to the heart muscle.
Now on medications to reduce rate of blockage build up and blood pressure, I get checked out every 6 months. Annually I get a stress test that verifies that I can pass the METS test for doing the rescue diver course. (11 METS minimum I think? Last test I hit 14). My doctor will sign a cert releasing me to dive, but I think it is more important that I know I am fit to dive.
I sign the forms saying I have no issues as even with a doctor's form it's an issue for many dive firms. (Anyone know if this practice negates DAN insurance?)
A triple by-pass sounds pretty drastic and it would be unusual for the arteries to not also include significant plaque build up that can burst on exertion. I know that my arteries are "almost" perfectly clear. I still run half marathons and diving doesn't stress me even close to that level so I figure that diving isn't going to be the activity that triggers anything. A calculated risk, but a reasonable one. Most with build up at my age simply don't know it.
So I agree that having had a heart issus doesn't automatically disqualify anyone, but a triple by-pass would be hard to imagine that there isn't a time bomb waiting to go off. That's where other fitness comes in. If you are doing 5 mile runs in 45 minutes, its unlikely that diving will push you beyond your limits. If diving is your only exercise then with age and a history of heart issues, you really are running down the odds that your first kicking through a current or just the natural stress of knowing you are diving to 135 feet for the first time at the Blue Hole could easily prove too much.
It's a discussion which we should have more openly within the diving community.
It's an activity where a great many middle aged men with wide waists partake. I think the vast majority will have a cardiac issue whether they know it or not. Rather than the current head in the sand "just get them to tick all the boxes no" approach, the industry should be doing more to ensure that divers with health issues are stress tested on land regularly to ensure their heart health is consistent with the activity level of diving.
I was recently in Belize and decided at the last minute to cancel our Blue Hole dive as I had developed a chest cough. I figured that any respiratory issue wasn't a good risk to add to my profile.
I don't know the poor guy involved in this. I don't know what risk assessments he made, but it is too easy to dismiss all heart issues or other health issues as an automatic no-no.
I mean the questionnaire asks if you have had back trouble? How many people over 30 can honestly answer no to that question?
---------- Post added March 18th, 2015 at 04:51 PM ----------
Assuming this is the case, it could easily just be stress / adrenaline related. The blue hole briefly busts recreational dive limits (but is still a no deco dive). It will be almost everyone's deepest dive of their life. Adrenaline is believed to weaken plaque surfaces and make them easier to rupture. The clot that forms in the artery starves part of the heart muscle of oxygen and disrupts the beating movement. Soon you exhaust the O2 supply in the blood and you will find yourself gasping for breath. If that happens at anything beyond 10 or 15', there is no chance of making the surface in a controlled ascent from depth with safety stops. I would expect most will do the classic spit out their regulator in desperation while still far from the surface. A heart attack might be the initiating event but the resulting panic at depth isn't something that any calming techniques or attempts to relax will do anything to fix.
By the way, is there an accepted protocol for a diver in medical respiratory distress at depth? Is just inflating the BCD and get to the surface asap and hope he/she can get enough control to breath out all the way up?
---------- Post added March 18th, 2015 at 05:03 PM ----------
I don't mean to hog this thread but this is an interesting update.
Diver dies while diving the Blue Hole | Ambergris Caye | Ambergris Caye Belize Message Board
A friend of the deceased claims that he was in excellent health and had no history of heart issues.
While we have no way to validate which version is true, we have to be cognizant of the motivation of the Blue Hole business to firmly blame the deceased rather than have people worry that there is something inherently dangerous about this dive.
I had a heart attack 4 years ago (the day before going on a dive trip). I was doing a half marathon cross country and pushed myself just too hard for someone in his mid forties who hadn't trained for a few months due to work commitments. Stupidly I still wanted to beat my time on the same course the previous year.
Anyway, I got excellent and very rapid treatment which prevented any measurable damage to the heart muscle.
Now on medications to reduce rate of blockage build up and blood pressure, I get checked out every 6 months. Annually I get a stress test that verifies that I can pass the METS test for doing the rescue diver course. (11 METS minimum I think? Last test I hit 14). My doctor will sign a cert releasing me to dive, but I think it is more important that I know I am fit to dive.
I sign the forms saying I have no issues as even with a doctor's form it's an issue for many dive firms. (Anyone know if this practice negates DAN insurance?)
A triple by-pass sounds pretty drastic and it would be unusual for the arteries to not also include significant plaque build up that can burst on exertion. I know that my arteries are "almost" perfectly clear. I still run half marathons and diving doesn't stress me even close to that level so I figure that diving isn't going to be the activity that triggers anything. A calculated risk, but a reasonable one. Most with build up at my age simply don't know it.
So I agree that having had a heart issus doesn't automatically disqualify anyone, but a triple by-pass would be hard to imagine that there isn't a time bomb waiting to go off. That's where other fitness comes in. If you are doing 5 mile runs in 45 minutes, its unlikely that diving will push you beyond your limits. If diving is your only exercise then with age and a history of heart issues, you really are running down the odds that your first kicking through a current or just the natural stress of knowing you are diving to 135 feet for the first time at the Blue Hole could easily prove too much.
It's a discussion which we should have more openly within the diving community.
It's an activity where a great many middle aged men with wide waists partake. I think the vast majority will have a cardiac issue whether they know it or not. Rather than the current head in the sand "just get them to tick all the boxes no" approach, the industry should be doing more to ensure that divers with health issues are stress tested on land regularly to ensure their heart health is consistent with the activity level of diving.
I was recently in Belize and decided at the last minute to cancel our Blue Hole dive as I had developed a chest cough. I figured that any respiratory issue wasn't a good risk to add to my profile.
I don't know the poor guy involved in this. I don't know what risk assessments he made, but it is too easy to dismiss all heart issues or other health issues as an automatic no-no.
I mean the questionnaire asks if you have had back trouble? How many people over 30 can honestly answer no to that question?
---------- Post added March 18th, 2015 at 04:51 PM ----------
Assuming this is the case, it could easily just be stress / adrenaline related. The blue hole briefly busts recreational dive limits (but is still a no deco dive). It will be almost everyone's deepest dive of their life. Adrenaline is believed to weaken plaque surfaces and make them easier to rupture. The clot that forms in the artery starves part of the heart muscle of oxygen and disrupts the beating movement. Soon you exhaust the O2 supply in the blood and you will find yourself gasping for breath. If that happens at anything beyond 10 or 15', there is no chance of making the surface in a controlled ascent from depth with safety stops. I would expect most will do the classic spit out their regulator in desperation while still far from the surface. A heart attack might be the initiating event but the resulting panic at depth isn't something that any calming techniques or attempts to relax will do anything to fix.
By the way, is there an accepted protocol for a diver in medical respiratory distress at depth? Is just inflating the BCD and get to the surface asap and hope he/she can get enough control to breath out all the way up?
---------- Post added March 18th, 2015 at 05:03 PM ----------
I don't mean to hog this thread but this is an interesting update.
Diver dies while diving the Blue Hole | Ambergris Caye | Ambergris Caye Belize Message Board
A friend of the deceased claims that he was in excellent health and had no history of heart issues.
While we have no way to validate which version is true, we have to be cognizant of the motivation of the Blue Hole business to firmly blame the deceased rather than have people worry that there is something inherently dangerous about this dive.
Last edited:
OP
I heard through the coconut telegraph from a friend of the deceased that he may have had a head injury also. I pressed to be sure they weren't confusing the other recent fatality. I was assured that this was a second propeller to the head incident. However, I cannot confirm it.
ZombieZombie
Registered
Wookie
Proud to be a Chaos Muppet
Staff member
ScubaBoard Business Sponsor
ScubaBoard Supporter
Scuba Instructor
If you get hit in the noggin with a propeller hard enough to kill you, you will likely suffer a cardiac arrest. Kidney failure too.
RIP poor guy who just wanted to see the sharks in the blue hole.
RIP poor guy who just wanted to see the sharks in the blue hole.
ajduplessis
Contributor
Now things are as clear as mud!
Similar threads
Trip Report
Quick Trip Report to Belize:
