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Hood Canal diver rescued - Washington
- Thread starter DandyDon
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She's a friend of mine (not 50 BTW) Her account of what happened was that she lost airway control after struggling with her mask flooding. She inhaled water and lost consciousness before being rescued by her dive partners. She was given CPR rescue breaths at the surface and taken to the hospital where she recovered. Overall, a good outcome thanks to the quick actions of the divers she was with.
Saltyhawg
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Glad she is ok! Props to the other divers for their quick, life saving action!
Wonder what precipitated the airway control issue? Sudden exposure to cold water on the face can cause an involuntary breath in some instances.
Wonder what precipitated the airway control issue? Sudden exposure to cold water on the face can cause an involuntary breath in some instances.
beanojones
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(All of this comes from a warm water instructor, so...)
Unfortunately, the comfort most instructors have (and had from the beginning) of removing their mask and breathing without their mask results in this skill being not properly taught by those instructors.
The very first thing that someone on scuba should be taught is how to protect the airway by pinching the nose when the nose is uncovered, or even just when there is water in the mask. It's almost never taught. I have only ever seen it taught by myself, and people who have sit in on my classes.
Other than telling students "don't panic", most instructors teach nothing about dealing with no mask breathing, dealing with water in the mask.
There needs to be a mechanical method to regain airway control and it needs to be automatic. If it's there, mask failure or flooding is just an inconvenience, not a cause of panic.
No one acts rationally when they are panicking.
Unfortunately, the comfort most instructors have (and had from the beginning) of removing their mask and breathing without their mask results in this skill being not properly taught by those instructors.
The very first thing that someone on scuba should be taught is how to protect the airway by pinching the nose when the nose is uncovered, or even just when there is water in the mask. It's almost never taught. I have only ever seen it taught by myself, and people who have sit in on my classes.
Other than telling students "don't panic", most instructors teach nothing about dealing with no mask breathing, dealing with water in the mask.
There needs to be a mechanical method to regain airway control and it needs to be automatic. If it's there, mask failure or flooding is just an inconvenience, not a cause of panic.
No one acts rationally when they are panicking.
beanojones,
I think that the purpose of the skill is to teach airway control, and to show students that they do not have to pinch their nose to control their airway. In entry level courses that I have conducted, I always allowed students to pinch their nose, but the goal was always to have them work away from that throughout the course. I agree completely with your statement that mask flooding should be just an inconvenience, not a cause of panic, but that is the whole intent of the skill. A mask is a device to enhance the dive, not a required piece of equipment for the dive, and anyone who is diving should be able to conduct a controlled ascent, even with the mask fully flooded or gone... including a safety stop, or possibly required deco... this is why the buddy system is so important, it is difficult to read gauges without a mask. In all, I think you are correct, people who are uncomfortable, need to still rely on pinching their noses, and they need the reassurance that it is okay to do so, but the goal needs to be working toward a scenario where it is not needed.
I think that the purpose of the skill is to teach airway control, and to show students that they do not have to pinch their nose to control their airway. In entry level courses that I have conducted, I always allowed students to pinch their nose, but the goal was always to have them work away from that throughout the course. I agree completely with your statement that mask flooding should be just an inconvenience, not a cause of panic, but that is the whole intent of the skill. A mask is a device to enhance the dive, not a required piece of equipment for the dive, and anyone who is diving should be able to conduct a controlled ascent, even with the mask fully flooded or gone... including a safety stop, or possibly required deco... this is why the buddy system is so important, it is difficult to read gauges without a mask. In all, I think you are correct, people who are uncomfortable, need to still rely on pinching their noses, and they need the reassurance that it is okay to do so, but the goal needs to be working toward a scenario where it is not needed.
beanojones
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I certainly do point out that at some point the diver will have to release the pinch to get the mask on anyway, but by starting with the pinch (and then having them release it out of boredom more often than not), I am hopefully ingraining a first response to water in the nose that stops/prevents panic.
Here's my setup for the skill (off topic but on topic too, maybe).
From the very first breaths on scuba, the students are standing with no mask on, and put a regulator in and pinch their nose. They drop their face in the water and breathe for 10 minutes (or really as long as it takes for everyone to stop the pinch from sheer boredom, or at least manage it for a little while, which can be much shorter or longer). I encourage to try releasing the pinch, and then repinching if needed.
But I have had guys who pinched their nose, even with the mask on, for most of day one all throughout the open water dives as well. If they had not learned the nose pinch self-rescue technique, they probably would have had to quit before they ever got certified, because they only other solution is to ask a panicking person to relax which is like shouting at a mountain for being tall.
Since I also had the inability to mouth-only breathe at the beginning, the only way I got to even be able to snorkel was through living on the beach and going into the ocean every day for six weeks (and the only reason I could do that is because I was living literally on the beach in Hawaii, which is an opportunity very few people have, both the time and the place.)
And every day getting into the coean, spending ten seconds at a time with a mask on, sticking my face in the water til I stood up literally gasping for air. It's one thing to know I can breathe only through the mouth. It's another thing entirely to convince my body of that, as I found out. I was thinking about just using goggles and living with blackeyes to see the fish.
The reason I became an instructor (and the reason the guy mentioned above became in instructor as it turns out) was because most instructors seem to have no idea how hard mouth only breathing (and therefore mask clearing, and mask R&R etc.) is to certain people. It's not fear, or discomfort, it is the simple fact that some people have used their noses their whole lives, and in the course of a short scuba course we cannot retrain a lifetime of habits into something new. We can however teach people a coping mechanism that solves the immediate problem until enough diving allows no pinch no mask breathing.
Here's my setup for the skill (off topic but on topic too, maybe).
From the very first breaths on scuba, the students are standing with no mask on, and put a regulator in and pinch their nose. They drop their face in the water and breathe for 10 minutes (or really as long as it takes for everyone to stop the pinch from sheer boredom, or at least manage it for a little while, which can be much shorter or longer). I encourage to try releasing the pinch, and then repinching if needed.
But I have had guys who pinched their nose, even with the mask on, for most of day one all throughout the open water dives as well. If they had not learned the nose pinch self-rescue technique, they probably would have had to quit before they ever got certified, because they only other solution is to ask a panicking person to relax which is like shouting at a mountain for being tall.
Since I also had the inability to mouth-only breathe at the beginning, the only way I got to even be able to snorkel was through living on the beach and going into the ocean every day for six weeks (and the only reason I could do that is because I was living literally on the beach in Hawaii, which is an opportunity very few people have, both the time and the place.)
And every day getting into the coean, spending ten seconds at a time with a mask on, sticking my face in the water til I stood up literally gasping for air. It's one thing to know I can breathe only through the mouth. It's another thing entirely to convince my body of that, as I found out. I was thinking about just using goggles and living with blackeyes to see the fish.
The reason I became an instructor (and the reason the guy mentioned above became in instructor as it turns out) was because most instructors seem to have no idea how hard mouth only breathing (and therefore mask clearing, and mask R&R etc.) is to certain people. It's not fear, or discomfort, it is the simple fact that some people have used their noses their whole lives, and in the course of a short scuba course we cannot retrain a lifetime of habits into something new. We can however teach people a coping mechanism that solves the immediate problem until enough diving allows no pinch no mask breathing.
I kind of figured we might be on the same page here. I think it is great that there are instructors out there who are like you and have the patience to work with their students. All too often, I hear people complain about students who don't "get it". In my opinion, that is when you become an instructor, that is our job, to teach those who do not get it. It is nice to work with those already proficient in the water, but being honest, that is not what being an instructor is all about. It is about taking someone who wants the knowledge and skills to function in an unfriendly environment and providing them with the ability, not a card.
Back to topic, do we know any more about what happened to the diver?
Back to topic, do we know any more about what happened to the diver?
Continuing the off-topicness and nose breathers. In my (perhaps limited) experience, I find about 10-15% of students do not have the ability to control their nose breathing which makes scuba and mask skills a little dicey. That is why on day one of confined water, after doing the 10 minute tread (which gives me an idea of how water comfortable they are), we go to the shallow (3 foot) end of the pool.
They are told to grab their snorkels and breathe in and out -- and then put their faces into the water and breathe in and out. I immediately find that 1 in 10 (or so) who can't do it -- and they are immediately given special work/instruction and will continue to work on this until they can do it. I've found this saves a lot of time, energy and anxiety. (Beano -- and yes, they are free to try to do this by pinching their nose but before they can move on, they need to be able to breathe in through their mouth and out their mouth or out their nose -- but be able to breathe underwater without a mask on while standing in three feet off water.)
They are told to grab their snorkels and breathe in and out -- and then put their faces into the water and breathe in and out. I immediately find that 1 in 10 (or so) who can't do it -- and they are immediately given special work/instruction and will continue to work on this until they can do it. I've found this saves a lot of time, energy and anxiety. (Beano -- and yes, they are free to try to do this by pinching their nose but before they can move on, they need to be able to breathe in through their mouth and out their mouth or out their nose -- but be able to breathe underwater without a mask on while standing in three feet off water.)
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