Offsetting the costs for volunteer rescue/recovery divers

[headhunter]

Please allow me to set the stage for my question.

I was just reading about a tragic event in a cave diving incident and the recovery efforts that ensued.

One of the recovery divers posted the following on another forum:

Each volunteer spent from $50 to $500 of their own money to assist in the recovery, and will continue to do it until we get the second diver out.

In response, another person on that forum posted this:

There is no way I could possibly help you out by making a dive along with you. I lack the training and equipment to do so. But PM me and send me your address so I can make a contribution to help offset the financial costs you incurred recovering these men from the cave.

Another supportive participant in that discussion posted along the same lines:

I was thinking the same thing, Hector. I am sure several of us would throw in some money until your costs were met. It would help us feel like we had some small hand in trying to participate in this extraordinarily difficult recovery.

The recovery diver posted this reply:

No compensation is necessary, but thanks for the gesture. We do it because we are the ones qualified to do it,(don't need to have another fatality recovering a body), to help the families, and to get closure for ALL (including ourselves) involved. This one was my fifth recovery in 25 years, hope it's my last.

To see the original thread (without my edits) to which I am referring to and be sure I haven't taken anything out of context:

http://www.spearboard.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9441

The discussion on SB that led me to all this was titled "2 Dead in cave diving incident":

http://www.scubaboard.com/t60235.html

This brings me to the question.

Wouldn't it be nice if a fund could be created to help offset the costs that such search & rescue/recovery volunteers incur?

We know that divers who participate as volunteers in such activities aren't doing it for any kind of remuneration and are simply giving of their time, effort and resources expecting nothing in return.

I know that they don't want to take any money from individuals and that they are truly volunteers, but if there were a fund that the community at large could contribute to, they might feel better about accepting it. It is also a way that the diving community, friends, family or anyone else can participate in helping out, even if they don't have the skill to perform the work as volunteers.

I was interested to hear what other peoples thoughts on this were.

Christian

 

[MechDiver]

I'm very curious why the local Sheriff's department is not footing at least part of the costs for these divers. They have stated they don't have anyone qualified, and I would consider this to be basically their problem.

Our local SAR is funded by corporate and local funds. The folks donate their time, but equipment is provided. I would think the cave communities would be bound to do the same and pay for costs incured by those with the ability and equipment.

MD

 

[simbrooks]

It seems like something worth supporting, or possibly something people could have insurance upon (however we know insurance companies want to profit) to pay for people to get them out if they perish - kind of like DAN membership/insurance to help out in a diving emergency. I would feel happy contributing to some kind of fund if there were one set and there were reassurances that it was not for profit and the monies were going to those who were doing the dives to offset reasonable expenses (mostly mixed gas costs). My instructor is an S&R diver for IUCRR, dont know how often he is called upon though.

 

[rmediver2002]

I think one of the major issues that could play in this, especially with the Sheriff's department paying a portion of the costs is it bring the issue of employer / employee relationship into the situation. This could open the funding group or agency to some amount of libility in the event of a casualty or injury to a rescuer.

If there was some assurance or clarification from the state level or federal level OSHA authority that the dives would be conducted under a similar clause to the good samaritan act then it might be a possibility in the future...

That said... A national recovery team "Trident" does recoup expenses currently (basically room and board for the volunteers) for some of thier operations.

 

[bridgediver]

That said... A national recovery team "Trident" does recoup expenses currently (basically room and board for the volunteers) for some of thier operations.

Jeff - Is trident still around? I attempted to contact them numerous times last fall and have heard nothing. I eventually gave up.

Sorry about taking the thread of topic for a sec...

 

[rmediver2002]

The last I heard, they did a project in NY last fall but I have not talked to anyone lately.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Cave divers do this as a service to other cave divers, their families and the sport itself.

Cave diving is one of those things that if it gets to be too much of a burden to a municipality it will simply be disallowed in that municipality.

I'm all for a fund of some kind to help with all the costs. In fact if I was in Florida where the caves are I'd likely get involved myself.

There are also volunteer teams like the Midwest Technical Recovery Team who assists government teams in recoveries that they aren't equiped or qualified to do. I think OSHA and insurance rules are one big reason for municipal teams not doing these kinds of dives. Another reason may be that many minicipal team divers are police officers or fire fighters first and divers second. Most of these teams do not utilize civilians who are "divers". Not all of these recoveries are divers. They could be boaters, any one who falls in the water or even evidence.

In these cases I don't at all understand volunteering the cost of thopusands of dollars in training (much of whish is directly related to evidence handleing and isn't needed for your own diving) the use of thousands of dollars in equipment and the risk to help a municipality to which we already pay taxes.

While I'd dive to help a neighbor or the diving community (especially cave diving), I just can't reconcile volunteering to do government work.

 

[Spectre]

Wouldn't it be nice if a fund could be created to help offset the costs that such search & rescue/recovery volunteers incur?

While it's a little sticky on a management point of view to keep an active fund going; there are people discussing that on another forum.

What did happen, yesterday, is that one community member took the initiative to set up an account to accept donations to be distributed to the volunteers in the Eagles Nest recovery. Due to the lack of management infrastructure, it most likely won't be an ongoing fund [since speed in setting it up was a necessity due to the typical loss of interest over time]; but it's a stepping stone for something like that. The excess funds will be distributed to the safety and education programs of NSS-CDS and NACD.

Details can be found in the 6/17/04 update on the following page:

http://www.floridacaves.com/eagles.htm

 

[TheAvatar]

Support volunteer SAR and dive rescue! While most get support from local and state government, most also rely on donations and grants to sustain themselves.

 

[Mverick]

In our area. Alot of the Police have divers. That will dive if a car goes off the road. Into a ditch. Small creek. If it's in the Mississippi they call us. St. Louis area.

Our funding comes from us. We have Bar B Ques. Sell lottery tickets. Do Bingo's. Have some donations. None very large. We're usually broke. We've gotten 1 grant.

We dive using Surface Supply and hard hats from the grant. I also use my own tanks and gear. It's a lot of work. But when you see the family's faces. I'll dive. No questions asked.

I've had people come up to me when I'm getting out of the water asking if I needed help getting out of my suit. If I needed something to drink. If I was hungry. When we needed Batteries, or something to pull something out with. They've been right there for us. I've never worried about anything I needed when doing a recovery. It's always there for us. We mentioned we needed a tree cut. A tree cutter was there in 5 minutes. And ready to work. We needed something to pull a tree out of a over banked creek. 2 HUGE 8wheel drive tractors were there in 10 minutes. 1 phone call.

People have been great. They really appreciate us. People ask me why I do it when I tell the horror stories. I always say, If it was your son or daughter. Would you want somebody looking for them. They never ask me why again. I'm trained to do it. So I do it. I'm spooked a little. But if you aren't. You shouldn't be diving in it.

I'm actually suprised they paid for the gas fills. When we call looking for something. We've never had to pay. We get the run of the place. They usually are tripping over themselves to help us. Place to lay down or sleep. I've taken naps in people's homes I didn't know. Warmed up in peoples vehicles I never met.

Being a diver they treat you like a King. I've never regretted it.

I'd love to get paid for it. Or at least expenses. But, It won't stop me from diving. It's my way to give something back.

EDIT
Oh, and by the way. Faber has never donated tanks. PST either. Nobody in the Scuba Industry has ever donated anything to us. One shop does help us out alot. And we are thankfull to have them. Before we had a compressor. All our fills were free from them. Hard Hats and Surface supply we paid full price for also. Be nice if Industry would help the teams out and at least sell at cost. We've asked. And never had an offer. That the dive shop couldn't beat.