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Accidents and IncidentsThis forum is for the discussion of diving Accidents and Incidents. Please read the message at the top of the forum before posting threads or responses. Memorial threads can be posted in the Passings forum.
Please note: The last reply in this thread was more than 5 month(s) ago.
This is a question of where you draw the line in terms of dangerous species. What if this happened with a reef shark. i mean you could accidentally get nipped near a vital artery and bleed out. And for that matter, what about Stingray City. Steve Irwin is not here to weigh in on that debate (although i'm sure he'd say all animals are safe). It's the same thing just a different species.
If someone chooses to put themselves in proximity with potentially more dangerous animals, that's their choice. The only problem that I have with the operation is that cages were not even an option. That way there might be a safe haven if animals got aggressive.
By the way I love shark diving. I don't like the idea of baited dives on a regular basis, but when it's my turn it's ok. : )
My best safety procedure after reading the 21 pages of posts is to go into the water (by choice) with people who have been there, shared their knowledge with me and understand more about these animals than 99% of researchers out there. Certainly not some posters here who refuse to educate themselves on facts about sharks and diving with sharks. Yes, even with bait in the water......
Thanks goodness we can choose our own path in diving. deco martini, let's go find deaths from cave diving last and this year or how about the same 25 years shark diving has been going on....
But likely as with my previous questions you will not even respond......
Oh yeah, if you're going to comment on "feeding" versus "chumming" (meaning slowly dissolving fish parts in a closed crate, NOT 5 gallon buckets of blood being dumped!) at least know the difference of what really goes on.
One final thing....I guess that shark feed ban in the state of FLA really worked, huh? Google "shark and FLA 2007" and see how many bites happened in FLA last year. Swimmers, surfers, etc. Another idiotic government response to every year more people simply being in murky water splashing around.
As I said before, if you haven't done it or don't want to please stay home and post on internet forums. But don't tell me how or where or with what species to dive
I have mentioned this in earlier posts, but I think it is worth mentioning again...Abernethy DOES NOT cater to novice divers with his shark dives...His Marketing Niche is bringing advanced divers who are Videographers or Photographers, to big sharks---Abernethy does this better than any other dive operator, I have never heard of anyone diving with Jim that did not think that Jim was running a very well thought out proceedure for shark diving, and the results on film and video speak for themselves--they get awesome shots. So "this type" of diver will pay big bucks to have a much higher level of adventure dive that they can get from any other operator, and because there is direct access to big sharks..big dangerous sharks....Jim's divers are NOT paying the money to shoot pictures of nurse sharks or wimpy little reef sharks. They go to Jim specifically for big bulls, big tigers, and big hammerheads. National Geographic and Discovery channel use Jim for precisely this reason---the best video and still shooters in the business believe Jim does this better than anyone else.
What does all this mean? It means that the real issue is whether photographers and videographers, including TV shows, should have "the right" to book a dive where they have a high probability of being able to shoot big tigers, bulls, or hammerheads.
This has really nothing to do with an operation like Watson's, which caters to the rank novice diver...Jim abernethy divers on the Sheerwater trips are NOTHING like the baby divers you see on typical dive charters, or going to Watson or equivalent.
Extremely advanced divers do not need to have the danger of big sharks explained to them--even though Abernethy has a complete breifing on this. These divers know they are at risk when diving directly with big bulls, tigers and hammers, and they know that the sharks are attracted because of a blood and bait response.....
I do not believe that a novice diver--or even a well seasoned dive instructor who's business it is daily to help protect novice divers, has ANY BUSINESS AT ALL suggesting that it is necessary to protect these advanced divers from their desire to dive with the big sharks on Abernethy style shark dives. I don't know any advanced divers who would appreciate your trying to dictate to them what is safe, particularly when each of us feel WE are the ones who are supposed to decide what is safe--if you can't decide this FOR YOURSELF, you are NOT an advanced diver.
And the 2nd big issue is that divers are a tiny little spec in relation to the enormous volume of human caused shark interaction....As long as we have huge commercial fishing fleets chumming and baiting the waters, as well as the large sport fishing contingent, shark behavior will be effected far more by this. In comparison to the volume of effect, the actions of the diving contingent DO NOT EVEN EXIST.
In Jupiter, florida, we have enjoyed spectacular diving on the 112 to 140 reef line, which is also, coincidentaly, the reef line the Kingfishing Fleet frequents, as well as a huge contingent of sportfishing boats. Here we have hundreds of divers in the water on a given weekend, in very close proximity to chumlines, struggling fish, huge schools of big fish, and sharks that have been actively attacted by the fishing actions.
If you had 1000 clones of Jimmy doing shark dives off Jupiter, even this would not touch the level of attraction caused by the fishing contingents---YET, EVERYONE IS IGNORING THIS!!!!!
These 2 members have said "Thank you." to DanLVolker for this useful post:
Sure they do, one of their strongest natural instincts are curiosity. All predators are naturally curious. If you get some time in the water with larger migratory sharks you may experience this for yourself. The behavior(s) you have cited are specific to bottom dwelling sharks, like Nurse sharks and Blacktip reef sharks.
I'm glad you got to see a couple of sharks, I'm sure it was a breathtaking experience. Nurse sharks and reef sharks are bottom dwelling sharks. "This bottom dwelling shark is nocturnal and is often seen resting on the bottom during the day, sometimes in small groups. It is not aggressive and will generally swim away if disturbed, although it may bite if harassed." Simply put, these sharks swim away because you are disturbing their rest.
Other larger migratory shark species (Oceanic Whitetips, Tiger Sharks, Hammerheads. Makos) do not swim away from humans, these sharks tend to be very inquisitive, weather they have been fed or not.
While I am not going to minimize the experience you have had with nurse and reef sharks because that is great, an experience with a Hammerhead, Mako, or Tiger is a truly amazing, and different all together than the sharks you have seen.
Your observations and comments are spot on. I wish there was a way to restrict comments from folks who have never dove with large migratory sharks and don't have a freekin clue what they are talking about. Then again, that's the beauty of SB since most of the comments on most topics are from folks who don't know what they're talking about and (in some cases) I don't think are even divers!!!!!
The Miami Herald/Sun Sentinel has reported a few things this morning:
They state it was a Tiger Shark that bit the diver
That a criminal investigation has been opened(sop ?)
That the Bahama Dive Assoc is considering some types of limitations.
prayers to the family
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If you're lucky enough to live in the Florida Keys then you're lucky enough
The Miami Herald/Sun Sentinel has reported a few things this morning:
They state it was a Tiger Shark that bit the diver
That a criminal investigation has been opened(sop ?)
That the Bahama Dive Assoc is considering some types of limitations.
Geez, I don't like the comment from the Florida attorney who said a lawsuit should be filed. The victim was an attorney, he signed a consent, he knew the risks, he took the risk.... No one is at fault.
But the practice should not continue, at least not legally.
The Miami Herald/Sun Sentinel has reported a few things this morning:
They state it was a Tiger Shark that bit the diver
That a criminal investigation has been opened(sop ?)
That the Bahama Dive Assoc is considering some types of limitations.
prayers to the family
So typical of public knee-jerk bs reaction.
I understand the need to investigate ANY diving injury or death... but a CRIMINAL investigation???
It's my understanding that Jim Abernathy runs one of the tighter ops from those that have been/worked there...
Why would anything, short of holding a victim, that was COMPLETELY aware of their circumstance, down underwater and shoving a bait-fish up his keyster, be investigated for criminal activity???
Perhaps Teluride should have been held criminally liable when Sonny Bono mated with a tree, snow-skiing?
Maybe the Discovery Channel should be criminally investigated for producing the Ocean's Deadliest, when Steve Irwin was nailed in a close encounter with a ray...
The Snake River Base [Jumping] Academy Reader says: "There are very few BASE jumpers with more than 500 jumps who have not spent serious time in the hospital due to BASE accidents. Most agree that it is just a matter of time until they are seriously injured. If you are not ready to die BASE jumping, you are not ready to go BASE jumping." Brian Schubert, one of Base's pioneers died doing it... along with many others... There is NO talk of criminal investigations every time a jumper goes splat (which is often).
The bottom line is freedom of choice. Whether those that engage in extreme activities are seriously short a few neurons doesn't matter... It's freedom of choice, as long as they are the only one's exposed to risk, and they're not harming anything else in the process. Don't tell them they can't do it... don't tell them they have to wear chain mail diving, or a self-deploying airbag base jumping, or a radar deflection system skiing. It's their choice...
I thought that was the premise this country was founded on...?
(For the inevitable inrush of flamers on this, I *do* wear my seatbelt, and think it *should* be mandatory -- for minors ).
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...adopt an elitist... they've never done anything for the first time...
If you're lucky enough to live in the Florida Keys then you're lucky enough
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