Shark bites liveaboard guest

[seaurchin]

Originally Posted by robint

as far as I have heard, the Shearwater does not "feed", they chum the water bringing the sharks in. Not that it is any better, but the sharks aren't being fed, per say.

I have been on a shark feed, wasn't impressed, I liked the sharks swimming around free and not spun up by the food. I was interesting to watch their behavior to see how much they change when food is introduced, so I am glad I did it once.

robin

So if I dragged a bag of bloody chickens around the lakes and rivers of south Florida that wouldn't be seen as "feeding" the alligators, or leaving a car packed with food in Yosemite to "attract" the bears?
That would be like inviting the homeless to a soup kitchen only allowing them to look and smell the food but not eat it - sounds like "someone" is going to get hurt to me.

Should DAN cover divers going on this type of dive?

It's sad someone got hurt, no-one likes to hear about a diver being injured but no-one should be surprised either. Its a risk a diver takes when messing around with nature.
Are divers really taking photos of sharks in their natural habitat when they are being attracted by "chum"?

[deco_martini]

Originally Posted by dhaas

1) Never spent any real time in the actual water with sharks close up

I have, does that mean my opinion is valid?

2) Don't know the record including # of dives, safety procedures, experience with diving operations, etc. of an operator

Nor do you since they aren't collected by an independent organization that evaluates dive op safety. I can tell you that if you see "tiger shark" "cageless" and "chum" in the dive description, that you are taking a risk not unlike hanging out with the bears in yellowstone park. There are more people who encounter bears every year than tiger sharks without getting hurt, but the park rangers still tell you to not feed or approach the bears. The sign doesn't say that the risk of getting attacked is high. The sign is there because if an attack does occur, it is most likely fatal.

Mind you, we have no idea what type of shark was involved in the accident or what sort of dive it was. However, we do know the dive op engages in dives where the chance of an attack being severe or fatal is high even if the chance of it occurring is low.

3) Speculate without any facts

Facts breed speculation. When you hear about a spearfisher getting attacked by a shark, normally you think "I bet he wouldn't let his catch go". Then later your suspicion is confirmed usually because past trends indicate future results. There is a difference between speculation formed on non-existent trends and those just made up by people.

When you hear a submerged diver was attacked by a shark, you normally think a few things:

1. a food source or the smell of food was nearby
2. molestation of the animal
3. pregnant female

These are some safe assumptions to make because if you look at the record these are most often the case.

I personally have chartered JASA (Jim Abernethy's Scuba Adventures) 7+ times with most for Shark Expeditions. He is a lot safer than many if not most of those "kneel here and we'll feed the sharks for you!" type dives. A

Understand why your personal experience is taken and ignored:
Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "cameras taken away" is more a stunt than regular occurance. Never happened to me or any of my fellow photographers in hundreds of dives and hours.

Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The State of FLA has it's proverbial head up it's you know what, too. They ban any dive operation from bait yet allow MILLIONS of bathers every year to enter murky splash filled water next to like, 75 fishing piers? Dumping guts and blood into them right next to Johnny and Susy splashing around.......How retarded.

I've been on a shark feed dive before. However, they were attracting sharks that feed on dead/dieing/small fish. I really didn't see the harm in this.

Sorry for the rant, but I'd like to Google how many dog, cat, ferret, snake, or people bites etc. resulted in hospital visits on 2/24/08. Or how many sharks necessary for the complete environmental balance were finned or hooked and killed on the same day. The sharks sure should fear us more than we fear them.

Last year there were 38 million estimated finnings of sharks. There was 1 human fatality by shark. 38 million to 1, yeah we're kicking their butts.

Let's wait for real information.....

Let's not. The fact is, this could have been a case of the divers doing a completely normal dive and a diver getting attacked for no reason at all. However, this is _extremely_ unlikely.

P.S. - I see this has ended sadly. I do, of course, feel sympathy for the man and his family. But again, facts need to be known........

And they will come out. I don't think there is a case of schadenfreude going on. We are _hoping_ that this _won't_ be a case of "see i told you so".

[ronscuba]

Originally Posted by dhaas

Last time I looked at people's photos and web sites for diving operations in the Bahamas I don't see cages being used at Nassau or around Grand Bahama Island. They bait and feed at both these popular places, and I don't believe there are "no Tiger Sharks Allowed" signs posted near that part of the ocean. Plus reports indicate it was a Bull shark, maybe not AS common but certainly a normal resident of Bahamian waters.

So the warnings referred to in the article, and also posting about only cage dives at Tiger Beach being "safer" are pure crappola'. The Bahamas makes a lot of $$$ off shark diving. You can't make any activity 100% safe....But JASA's record speaks volumes when you consider the sheer amount of time they and their customers have spent with all species of sharks in Bahamian waters.

Again, let's get facts from actual experiences, not suppositions......

This is all very sad, and as several posters said, sometimes it's just your time.

dhaas

Sometimes it's just your time and sometimes you intentially put yourself in a dangerous sitation. Some situations are more dangerous than others.

I thought this dive operator specifically marketed his trips as chummed water cageless dives with tiger and bull sharks ? That sounds a lot more dangerous than feed dives with the much smaller and less aggressive reef sharks. I'm no expert, but I would think an "exploratory bite" from a reef shark is different than one from a tiger or bull shark.

While the ocean is open and sharks can swim wherever they want, if certain areas are known for frequent appearances by bull and tiger sharks, I would think there are other areas where reef sharks are typically the only sharks in the area.

[osprey]

Several posters have said it took place at Tiger Beach, but I don't think this has been reported. I have never heard of bull sharks turning up there. Abernathy does a dive north of Great Isaac in 80' of water where he gets tiger, bull & hammerheads. I'm guessing it might have been there.

One other correction, the warning issued by the Bahamas Dive Association about using cages, only referred to diving with more dangerous sharks such as tiger, bull, hammerheads and oceanic whitetips. It didn't refer to dives with reef & nurse sharks which have a long history of being safe.

[dashark]

Originally Posted by seaurchin

You don't see the DEP or any other wildlife service promoting the feeding of bears, alligators, crocs etc so why feed sharks...any where. People + food = food. I know science isn't strong in Florida's curriculum but doesn't anyone remember Ivan Pavlov?

That is exactly why natonal parks have been posting "don't feed the bears" signs for years.
It seems to me that the folks, up in the Bay area of California have been protesting feeding the Whites off the Farralones for years. The concern being a learned response of associating boats an humans with food. This had always made sense to me.
I love diving with sharks, Personally, i don't like chummed dives for the previously mentioned reasons. I do, however, understand why people are attractd to these dives. I don't fault them for it. i am no less synpahetic when an accident occurs.

[cmdiver]

I have been on a trip like this with Abernethy. I was never in a situation where I felt as if I was in danger, however, my trip was over a year ago. I've heard since then that the sharks have become more aggressive, that more and more cameras are being taken away from the photographers. I've also heard but not witness to the fact that he is now feeding them by hand, the Tigers that is. If you look at thier website you'll see that he runs shark trips week after week, month after month....I can't image that this hasn't changed the behavior of the sharks in that area. The trip I was on we stayed in the exact same spot for days, and bait was released in the water from time to time. Bait crates were also ripped open by a large tiger shark. Only thing that I didn't like was that even though I paid good money to be on the trip, it was Jim himself that would dart in front of me with his camera, trying to get his own shots of the sharks, we would all take turns in the water, but he'd say he needed to be in the water to help "control" the situation, but all I saw was him trying to out shoot and then out bragg the other photographers onboard, more than once I cussed him underwater for his actions...I thought we were there so "we" the customers could photography the sharks!! Thats another issue though and one reason I didn't go back.

I think that the time has come to re-evaluate the safety of this diving. Yes, the diver knew that there was no cage and that there was some risk. But! Isn't it time for the operator to realize that it isn't worth the money he is raking in on these trips to endanger another divers life...I am curios as to if a crew member was in the water with this poor guy and if so, if they were looking after the guests or just trying to get another picture themselves???? What is his plans now?? Just stick to his saying "sharks don't eat people"? Well he is right about that, it didn't eat the diver, but a bite from any species of shark of that size is going to be extreme.

Known facts:
1) he was biten in the butt several years ago by a reef shark on a site they call Eldorado.

2) One of his crew Mike Walker was bitten by a reef shark on that same site, just about 4 or 5 years ago. He had a stay in the hospital, that was kept very quiet.

3) Both Jim and Mike were bitten during a baited shark dive.

4) A paying passenger has died during a baited shark dive

I feel sorry for the family and friends of the victum and the crew and other passengers that witnessed this horrible event. My thoughts are with them all.

[RAD Diver]

Well I know someone who did this dive not long ago, & I love sharks & would do this dive myself, but would not want my wife beside me as she normally is.
My friend got some tremendous pictures of Tigers & Hammerheads, not small ones either. He also told me there was someone doing a documentary with a large video set-up.They were constantly using the camera to fend off the sharks & my friend who was using a small camera set-up to do the same. Kind of like a flyswatter to fend off an F-18.
He also relayed that a diver was grabbed by a Tiger, shook & let go without a scratch, but his wetsuit was a keepsake complete with teethmarks.
I repeat I would still do this dive.

[dumpsterDiver]

I think that feeding large dangerous sharks and habituating them to the presence of divers is fine because very few people get attacked and it is very exciting and people will realize just how wonderful these fish are. I also think that rubbing the bellies of manatees is totally inapporpriate, dangerous and completely alters their natural behavoir.

[cmdiver]

Wow, shook by a tiger and let go!! That is some story to tell....I understand why you wouldn't want your wife along side of you, we fear more for the ones we love than ourselves. A tiger shark can bite through the shell of a turtle, like we bite into a peice of soft bread...just think of the out come for your friend if the shark decided to bite down?

[ChrisM]

According to someone on wetpixel who claims to have spoken to the crew, it was not at Tiger Beach. Bull shark at 75 fsw, bit to the calf, immediate assistance to the surface.

Shark bite on Shear Water, Bahamas - Wetpixel :: Underwater Photography Forums