Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[Amazz]

I think there may be a tendency to assume that a divemaster is expected to control the fate of a diver at all costs. First of all, a diver who required Mrs. Wood's level of assistance should never have been taken on a bottomless dive. That responsibility lies with the shop. However, if you don't know what the conversation was between the Woods and the staff before the dive, you can't speculate over what the shop knew or didn't know about their level of previous experience. "I haven't been in the water in a few months and would really like an instructor with me" could mean a diver is just being cautious or the diver has no business doing a dive with a 3,000 foot floor.

Don't assume that a diver will follow the divemaster's instructions. I have seen it many times and sometimes it's blatant. How did the diver get 20 ft. below the DM without her noticing? Maybe it was deliberate and quick, maybe the DM was careless. Maybe the diver thought she was inflating and was really dumping. I have seen that many times.

Here is what happened to me, here is how I handled it, and here is what went through my mind. Maybe some of it applies to Mrs. Wood's tragedy and why it may have ended the way it did.

I am an active divemaster in Jupiter. I have around 1500 dives. We used to take divers out to the Hole in the Wall which starts at about 130 ft. and bottoms out at 160 plus in certain areas. There are frequently very strong currents and large, sometimes aggressive sharks. An advanced C-card was required (which means nothing imho as far as experience goes.) After one particularly eventful dive, I decided NEVER EVER to divemaster that dive again. A diver not only put himself in a dangerous situation, but his potential rescuer (me) as well. There were two of us working. We gave a full briefing that stressed for all divers to stay with us the entire time. Bruce led the dive and I trailed at the end. The divers were all between us. After we descended I noticed that a young man and women hit the bottom at 130 ft. and started to go the wrong way. They were headed away from the ledge. I quickly gathered them and we proceeded toward the wall. I noticed we were about to fly over the Hole in the Wall, which is a big cavern swim through and the highlight of the dive. The current was SCREAMING that day. I grabbed the top of the cavern and motioned for the two divers to do the same. He started to have difficulty and I could tell he was either narced, overbreathing and CO2 building, or both. He gave me the ascend signal and I knew we had to get out of there quickly. I motioned for his girlfriend to ascend. She shook her head no. I vigorously motioned again and so did he. She proceeded to "argue" underwater with both of us. I grabbed his BCD and let go of the reef and we drifted away, starting a slow and controlled ascent. She followed. We stopped at about about 60-70 ft. for a minute or so. I was still holding his BCD. He motioned that he was ok and I let go. They started "arguing" again. I motioned for them to continue their ascent with me. He gave me the ok again. I glanced at my guage and noticed a bull shark coming toward us. It veered away and I noticed the two divers started sinking. I don't think I looked away for more than two seconds. I honked and got their attention and signaled for them to ascend. They shook their heads no, gave me the ok sign, and pointed that they were headed back to the bottom. I went with them as they seemed in control. I "told" them to stop at 100 ft. and continue the dive from there. The visibility was fantastic and there were schools of fish all through the water column. It would still be a great dive. They complied, briefly. Then they saw a diver below at 140 ft. with doubles. They descended to join him. I grabbed her tank valve and motioned for her to ascend again. She pushed me away and they continued to descend. What was I thinking? These two people have no regard for rules or safety and aren't doing a damn thing I'm telling them. I'm not going to die at 140 ft. by getting into a fight with two combative divers. They drifted along at 140 ft. for a few minutes. I watched from about 120 ft. Then they started ascending toward me. He showed me his guage and it read 300 psi!!!! Holy Sh........! I motioned for them to ascend with me. This time they were both compliant. He has 300 psi in his tank at 120 ft. I held his arm the entire ascent. The entire time I was thinking about what would happen if and when he took his last breath from the ever shrinking tank. I hoped it would at least happen at a shallow depth so I wouldn't have to share air with a panicked diver at a dangerous depth. We made it to the safety stop and spent almost three minutes there. I still held his arm until we reached the surface. However, the two of them once again started "arguing" during the safety stop. That's why I stopped working that dive. I know first hand how dangerous it can be to rescue somebody who is uncooperative at an unsafe depth. It's very easy to speculate that Mrs. Wood's divemaster was completely negligent in allowing her to sink 20 ft. below her. Maybe she was having bouyancy issues and inflated and dumped and dumped. Maybe she was a little overweighted and dumped too much. All it takes is a quick distraction. I found it shocking that my two divers started descending so quickly. You can all say I was wrong too. A lot can happen in two seconds. I would be much more willing to get into a rescue fight with a diver at 80 ft. than at 140 ft. I think a responsible divemaster thinks about the possibility of becoming a victim when the situation gets dangerous. I don't do that dive anymore so don't worry about me NOT rescuing any of you on it. What's a divemaster to do when divers don't follow instructions and deliberately go against what the dm says? We certainly don't know if that's the case with Mrs. Woods. It's only one piece of the speculation. There is so much that could have happened that it's unfair to blame it all on the dm.

[Web Monkey]

. In an emergency situation, it is assumed that a diver is capable of rendering assistance to a distressed buddy while underwater.
. . .
The Bolded part is my emphasis. Hopefully, the DM was well informed. Otherwise she was working under a great handicap.

The victim's medical history was irreverent in this case. Simply keeping the victim from descending far below the planned depth, and surfacing if behavioral or medical issues were seen would have prevented this fatality.

This requires nothing more than good buddy skills, which I would hope is a requirement for a DM card.

Any reasonable DM would assume that any person who requests or is assigned a DM as a personal buddy is going to require a significant level of attention.

Terry

[mrlipis]

Not to get off this particular incident but I think it is a sad situation that the industry is turning out certified divers that have to rely on a DM to get them through a dive. From day one, the prospective diver is told, " this is what you need to become a certified diver and for an additional $200.00 you can become an advanced diver." As they roll off the conveyor belt and end up on a dive boat with virtually no experience, have they "mastered" their skills? They are lucky to understand what neutral buoyancy means let alone "mastered" it.
The industry has given them a card that says they are qualified to go do this dive. In reality, 80% of those divers wouldn't have the experience the confidence or the balls to do the dive without a DM or an experienced diver at their side. That's actually a positive thing. The other 20% are too cocky or ignorant to know better.
The first c-card should be a learners permit with a requirement of 10 DM/Insrtuctor supervised dives in an true open water condition.
Whether or not this woman asked for a DM, or was required to hire one, I don't think she had any business doing a dive without a hard bottom of 60 ft. I mean really, one of the two principals in this incident did not believe she was qualified to do this dive without the assistance of a DM, and it still turned into a tragedy. What does this say about the quality of training from the ground up?

[mrlipis]

[QUOTE=Web Monkey;4485854]The victim's medical history was irreverent in this case. ntion.

QUOTE]

I don't think it would be irrelevant in a court of law. Had the dive op known of a pre-existing condition such as the one that has been suggested here, they would not of allowed her to dive, end of story. Suppose I hire you as a DM to take me on a dive to 140 ft and forget to tell you that I am using EAN32 and I have a seizure and die. Are you responsible?

[Amazz]

What does this say about the quality of training from the ground up?

I agree with you 100%. The idea of teaching students over a weekend and dumping them in the ocean on a drift dive in 60 ft. of water is terrifying to me. That's why I have no desire to become an instructor these days. I'm not proclaiming myself to be any kind of dive expert but here is now I learned to dive: I took Scuba in college. First I took lifeguard training in college. It was a BEAR. Then I took Scuba from the same instructor. I had class for 1.5 hours twice a week for 15 weeks. Now I know that's at the other end of the spectrum, but what a joke these weekend dive courses are. PADI made it worse by allowing the course online. We should probably take this thread offshoot elsewhere.

[Splitlip]

Here is what happened to me, here is how I handled it, and here is what went through my mind. Maybe some of it applies to Mrs. Wood's tragedy and why it may have ended the way it did.

I am an active divemaster in Jupiter. I have around 1500 dives. We used to take divers out to the Hole in the Wall which starts at about 130 ft. and bottoms out at 160 plus in certain areas. There are frequently very strong currents and large, sometimes aggressive sharks. An advanced C-card was required (which means nothing imho as far as experience goes.) After one particularly eventful dive, I decided NEVER EVER to divemaster that dive again. A diver not only put himself in a dangerous situation, but his potential rescuer (me) as well. There were two of us working. We gave a full briefing that stressed for all divers to stay with us the entire time. Bruce led the dive and I trailed at the end. The divers were all between us. After we descended I noticed that a young man and women hit the bottom at 130 ft. and started to go the wrong way. They were headed away from the ledge. I quickly gathered them and we proceeded toward the wall. I noticed we were about to fly over the Hole in the Wall, which is a big cavern swim through and the highlight of the dive. The current was SCREAMING that day. I grabbed the top of the cavern and motioned for the two divers to do the same. He started to have difficulty and I could tell he was either narced, overbreathing and CO2 building, or both. He gave me the ascend signal and I knew we had to get out of there quickly. I motioned for his girlfriend to ascend. She shook her head no. I vigorously motioned again and so did he. She proceeded to "argue" underwater with both of us. I grabbed his BCD and let go of the reef and we drifted away, starting a slow and controlled ascent. She followed. We stopped at about about 60-70 ft. for a minute or so. I was still holding his BCD. He motioned that he was ok and I let go. They started "arguing" again. I motioned for them to continue their ascent with me. He gave me the ok again. I glanced at my guage and noticed a bull shark coming toward us. It veered away and I noticed the two divers started sinking. I don't think I looked away for more than two seconds. I honked and got their attention and signaled for them to ascend. They shook their heads no, gave me the ok sign, and pointed that they were headed back to the bottom. I went with them as they seemed in control. I "told" them to stop at 100 ft. and continue the dive from there. The visibility was fantastic and there were schools of fish all through the water column. It would still be a great dive. They complied, briefly. Then they saw a diver below at 140 ft. with doubles. They descended to join him. I grabbed her tank valve and motioned for her to ascend again. She pushed me away and they continued to descend. What was I thinking? These two people have no regard for rules or safety and aren't doing a damn thing I'm telling them. I'm not going to die at 140 ft. by getting into a fight with two combative divers. They drifted along at 140 ft. for a few minutes. I watched from about 120 ft. Then they started ascending toward me. He showed me his guage and it read 300 psi!!!! Holy Sh........! I motioned for them to ascend with me. This time they were both compliant. He has 300 psi in his tank at 120 ft. I held his arm the entire ascent. The entire time I was thinking about what would happen if and when he took his last breath from the ever shrinking tank. I hoped it would at least happen at a shallow depth so I wouldn't have to share air with a panicked diver at a dangerous depth. We made it to the safety stop and spent almost three minutes there. I still held his arm until we reached the surface. However, the two of them once again started "arguing" during the safety stop. That's why I stopped working that dive. I know first hand how dangerous it can be to rescue somebody who is uncooperative at an unsafe depth. It's very easy to speculate that Mrs. Wood's divemaster was completely negligent in allowing her to sink 20 ft. below her. Maybe she was having bouyancy issues and inflated and dumped and dumped. Maybe she was a little overweighted and dumped too much. All it takes is a quick distraction. I found it shocking that my two divers started descending so quickly. You can all say I was wrong too. A lot can happen in two seconds. I would be much more willing to get into a rescue fight with a diver at 80 ft. than at 140 ft. I think a responsible divemaster thinks about the possibility of becoming a victim when the situation gets dangerous. I don't do that dive anymore so don't worry about me NOT rescuing any of you on it. What's a divemaster to do when divers don't follow instructions and deliberately go against what the dm says? We certainly don't know if that's the case with Mrs. Woods. It's only one piece of the speculation. There is so much that could have happened that it's unfair to blame it all on the dm.

All I can say Angie is, WOW!

[Web Monkey]

I don't think it would be irrelevant in a court of law. Had the dive op known of a pre-existing condition such as the one that has been suggested here, they would not of allowed her to dive, end of story. Suppose I hire you as a DM to take me on a dive to 140 ft and forget to tell you that I am using EAN32 and I have a seizure and die. Are you responsible?

I wouldn't take you on a 140' dive at all. Deep dives require well trained buddy pairs, not some random pairing of strangers, regardless of certification.

Terry

[Web Monkey]

I don't think it would be irrelevant in a court of law. Had the dive op known of a pre-existing condition such as the one that has been suggested here, they would not of allowed her to dive, end of story.

Absolutely. If she said "I just had a stroke" the dive op would have to be insane to let her dive. However, since she was on the dive, I'm assuming she said "no" to all the medical questions.

In any case, the woman didn't die from a medical problem, she died because the DM failed to maintain appropriate buddy distance, let her get away then failed to drag her back to the surface even after catching up with her twice (if I read the thread correctly).

Terry

[pilot fish]

amazz, that is quite a scary story you told. I would have done the same thing as you, perhaps even less than you did. They were major arrogant and stupid. What the hell were these two constantly arguing about? What did you say to them at the surfcae? Hope you told the shop never to let them dive with that dive op again?

I agree with you 100%. The idea of teaching students over a weekend and dumping them in the ocean on a drift dive in 60 ft. of water is terrifying to me. That's why I have no desire to become an instructor these days. I'm not proclaiming myself to be any kind of dive expert but here is now I learned to dive: I took Scuba in college. First I took lifeguard training in college. It was a BEAR. Then I took Scuba from the same instructor. I had class for 1.5 hours twice a week for 15 weeks. Now I know that's at the other end of the spectrum, but what a joke these weekend dive courses are. PADI made it worse by allowing the course online. We should probably take this thread offshoot elsewhere.

[Web Monkey]

I am an active divemaster in Jupiter. I have around 1500 dives. We used to take divers out to the Hole in the Wall which starts at about 130 ft. and bottoms out at 160 plus in certain areas. There are frequently very strong currents and large, sometimes aggressive sharks. An advanced C-card was required

Do you mean "Advanced" as in "AOW" or "Advanced" as in "Advanced Nitrox/Decompression or Cave" ?

If AOW, that's absolutely terrifying.

Terry