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Accidents and IncidentsThis forum is for the discussion of diving Accidents and Incidents. Please read the message at the top of the forum before posting threads or responses. Memorial threads can be posted in the Passings forum.
The instructor was devastated by this and I hope we will all respect her need for privacy at this point. IMHO, she is a very competent SCUBA professional who deeply cares for her students.
Pardon me if this is not the right forum for this --
Some background - Having a student injured or dead must (?) be at least as hard on the instructor / DM as a squad or platoon leader losing a soldier / sailor / airman in battle. The military has a very clear, structured way of counseling for the troops and leadership involved as well as family support groups.
What is there for the instructor / DM / dive op folks? I didn't think it appropriate to question DAN on this, but do they have recommendations? This is tough stuff!
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The diver formally known as UsryTregre, expatriated Texan, the user of treegrass, the user of tree greenery,
moss muncher, mower of tree grass, treelawnservice ? ? ? ? I cannot make this stuff up!!!
....until Playa Del Carmen!
....until ITK!
Handle adversity like a man; get on your knees and pray!
This thread might be best posted in the Instructor-to-Instructor forum.
Part of the training to become dive professionals covers critical incidents and steps to take afterwards to take care of yourself.
Thanks - that's good to know.
However, as I am not an instructor, I do not have access. Just a concerned bystander, if you will.
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The diver formally known as UsryTregre, expatriated Texan, the user of treegrass, the user of tree greenery,
moss muncher, mower of tree grass, treelawnservice ? ? ? ? I cannot make this stuff up!!!
....until Playa Del Carmen!
....until ITK!
Handle adversity like a man; get on your knees and pray!
Suggesting that this would be more appropriate in the "instructor to instructor" forum, I disagree.
Although the instructor or DM are certainly affected there can be others. Please consider a buddy, other members of a class, and anyone who may have assisted in resuscitation attempts. These may be people who would not have access to the I to I forum.
My wife and I were in a class where a fellow student died (was also a fellow club member). This had greatly affected the instructor and AI, but also affected the fellow class members as well as club members.
Any of us could use help in dealing with our feelings after an accident.
Respectfully,
Mike
This member has said "Thank you." to scubagoldmc for this useful post:
What is there for the instructor / DM / dive op folks? I didn't think it appropriate to question DAN on this, but do they have recommendations? This is tough stuff!
Very good question.
While edm81363 mentions during training it covers "critical incidents and steps to take afterwards to take care of yourself", the question I would ask is, what if you're not capable of taking care of yourself?
Good question for those owners out there. What do you have in place in terms of assistance should an instructor you employ become involved in a accident resulting in a death?
Any of us could use help in dealing with our feelings after an accident.
Respectfully,
Mike
Mike is dead on target, here. The military has a set of briefings and counselings for units and familiy members when a person is killed or suicides. Schools offer much the same thing.
Given the very closeness of a dive communiity --especially that between instructors / DMs and students -- this seems it would be every bit as personal.
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The diver formally known as UsryTregre, expatriated Texan, the user of treegrass, the user of tree greenery,
moss muncher, mower of tree grass, treelawnservice ? ? ? ? I cannot make this stuff up!!!
....until Playa Del Carmen!
....until ITK!
Handle adversity like a man; get on your knees and pray!
Although the instructor or DM are certainly affected there can be others. Please consider a buddy, other members of a class, and anyone who may have assisted in resuscitation attempts. These may be people who would not have access to the I to I forum.
Like Mike I sure do wish that anyone involved in an accident had access to help / advice / other people's experiences / ideas on what to do better next time / etc. But any web-based resource would surely require restricted access so that people could talk freely. How do you decide who gets access?
Instructors / DMs etc who feel (or are) partly responsible for the accident presumably have their own unique set of problems, including possible litigation. I imagine they'd probably feel most comfortable if their support resources were only accessible by their peers, who understand the burden of responsibility.
But a lot of buddies must suffer from very similar issues.
Even someone like me who merely participated in a unsuccessful resus has overlapping issues.
I hope there's a solution for at least the instructors, if not the rest of us.
It is an issue that has been raised several times and the industry would rather ignore because it publicizes the "wrong" side of diving.
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"Too often ... people enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought" - Leapfrog
"They are the McDonalds of diver certification. Quick, inexpensive and tasty. Pardon me for saying so, but I also believe it to be a health hazard." - DCBC
"It truly does boil down to motivation ... if you believe something is hard, or unnecessary to learn, you won't learn it ... even if it's completely within your capability" - Bob (Grateful Diver)
What is there for the instructor / DM / dive op folks?
Actually in Los Angeles County, we DO have a mechansim in place, through the Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber. I have lobbied both NAUI and PADI (and their respective insurance compnaies) at various times over the years to set something up, but to no avail. But I am happy to say we have this available in SoCal, and it's partly due to all the support we get for Chamber Day.
I believe the fancy name is "Critical Stress Incident Management" and there's even a website dealing with this in a general way (Signs & Symptoms).
Essentially, it's a theraputic session(s), led by a trained professional (psychologist or psychiatrist), and it's designed for people who were HANDS-ON involved in the accident such as buddies, first responders, etc. There are a myriad of feelings that crop up with these incidents and the goal of these sessions is to let those affected know what they're feeling is (1) normal, (2) they're not alone, and (3) it'll get better.
If you are ever involved in this type of a situation with regards to diving and feel the need for such counseling, you can contact me or Karl Huggins at the Chamber and we'll try to put you in touch with the right people.
But in a larger context, yes, our industry sucks at dealing with the aftermath of accidents. As diving professionals we're told "Don't have accidents" and then when one happens we're told "Don't talk to anyone but the lawyers about it" and none of that is a good plan for dealing with the psychological, and sometimes the legal, ramificiations of such an accident.
- Ken
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Ken Kurtis
NAUI Instr. #5936
Owner, Reef Seekers Dive Co.
Beverly Hills, CA www.reefseekers.com
These 8 members have said "Thank you." to Ken Kurtis for this useful post:
Ever since Columbine, schools have had in place a program to deal with the students whenever there is a high-stress incident . . . could be a car wreck, suicide, overdose, or worse.
Perhaps dive communities or clubs could contact their local (usually high) school and check out their program. It could be a good guide to follow in case of a dive incident. Many times, the resources involved are clergy or government or gov't-subsidized . . . or even volunteer.
__________________
The diver formally known as UsryTregre, expatriated Texan, the user of treegrass, the user of tree greenery,
moss muncher, mower of tree grass, treelawnservice ? ? ? ? I cannot make this stuff up!!!
....until Playa Del Carmen!
....until ITK!
Handle adversity like a man; get on your knees and pray!
Resources for Affected Instructors / DMs?
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