Yet another scuba death at Tioman (Sipadan Wreck)

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Zippsy

Contributor
Scuba Instructor
Messages
1,817
Reaction score
387
Location
SIngapore
# of dives
2500 - 4999
As always, there are very few details circulating and there will likely be little more ever released but... Ms. Sim Qiu Yan (30) drowned last Saturday at the Sipadan Wreck off Tioman island in Malaysia. She was certified OW earlier this year and doing her second trip to complete her AOW certification with Hybrid Scuba (Singapore) over the long Easter weekend. It was during the second day of diving (likely the 11th dive of her life) when she was taken to the wreck for the required deep dive of the course. Reports were that visibility was poor for the site, less than 5 meters. When the instructor, students & recreational divers reached the bottom around 30m, it was reported that two students were discovered missing. Everyone with the instructor surfaced after a brief search but they only found one of the missing divers at the surface. It was ten hours later that her body was found.

We are doomed to repeat mistakes here. That's sad.

Singapore News | Politics | Weather | Crime
 
We did at least 100 dives before we went for the advanced course.
How is it that Dm's don't question/know the level of experience of a diver doing a course ? If it was only her 11th dive ever would the Dm not see that the diver is inexperienced ? From kitting up through descending to that depth in bad vis....surely you know who you are taking down to a depth of 30 meters if you are training people ?
I am sad to hear about the death of another young person who was inexperienced and allowed to dive this deep in bad vis. Also , make sure you keep your students under your control and close by ! Use additional Dm's if need be !
 
As always, there are very few details circulating and there will likely be little more ever released but... Ms. Sim Qiu Yan (30) drowned last Saturday at the Sipadan Wreck off Tioman island in Malaysia. She was certified OW earlier this year and doing her second trip to complete her AOW certification with Hybrid Scuba (Singapore) over the long Easter weekend. It was during the second day of diving (likely the 11th dive of her life) when she was taken to the wreck for the required deep dive of the course. Reports were that visibility was poor for the site, less than 5 meters. When the instructor, students & recreational divers reached the bottom around 30m, it was reported that two students were discovered missing. Everyone with the instructor surfaced after a brief search but they only found one of the missing divers at the surface. It was ten hours later that her body was found.

We are doomed to repeat mistakes here. That's sad.

Singapore News | Politics | Weather | Crime

I dived that site before. It was super nice.

I think it maybe due to too many inexperience divers that kick up the sandy bottom... The last time I went to this wreck was 2 years back, but I was doing live on board... This site seldom have divers going over.

The DM or instructor should had taken extra care for deep dives!!! Since they are new divers, they should not be going to this dive site at all... She might have done penetration and got stuck.

That time, my buddy and I wanted to try to walk around the control room of the wreck, but that require us to remove the bad and move it, after we have consider the risk and etc, we dropped the idea and just did the normal penetration. Here is a clip of the dive site.

[video=youtube;mNcIe7ZXDYQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNcIe7ZXDYQ[/video]
 
Although other dives in the Advanced class may be executed otherwise, the PADI standards state that the Deep dive MUST be done under "direct supervision". This means the instructor or a CA must be able to see the student throughout the dive. Allowing a student to descend in any other way is a standards violation.

I think, overall, much too little attention is paid to learning to control descents. We practice ascent control, but all too often, any sort of way that gets the student to the bottom is good enough. This doesn't serve people well at all, because descents are a time when you are going to find out what isn't working -- whether it's your ears that won't clear, or your gas that wasn't turned on, or your BC inflator hose that wasn't well attached and has now popped off, you are going to find it on descent. There are many reasons why a descent might go wrong and a diver might need her buddy's assistance, and if the two aren't even within eyeshot of one another, that's not going to happen.

I detest, "We'll meet up at the bottom.". Of course, I dive in viz where, if you get separated on the way down, you may never see one another again. In this case, that is literally what happened. There is no, I repeat NO excuse for having this occur in a class setting -- there is little excuse for it to occur outside of classes.
 
I believe there was no penetration at all. She went missing on the descent. This was the deep adventure dive portion of the advanced course. I also had about 150 dives before taking the advanced course but for some divers, I see some useful reasons for doing the AOW course immediately after the OW course. One point though is that it takes both experience and training to become a real "advanced" diver. Getting only one of those with out the other is almost as useless). The instructor needed about 30m depth to teach it well. My speculation was that she was either not ready for the AOW course or should have been watched much more closely during the dive.
 
Here is a clip of the dive site.
Thanks for posting.
Was that a touch of harassment of marine life for the record....?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
sigh.... another death at Tioman..... quite a handful for the past 1 year..... most dive groups will dive at Sipadan Wreck at 8am or ealier(first morning dive). I've seen as many as 10 dives boats there in the morning!! Visibility will deteriorate after that probably due to the amount of divers stirring up the sandy bottom. I believe Ms. Sim Qiu Yan went to this site in the late morning when visibility is at it's worst. :(
 
Our beginning divers -- our folks doing their first OW dives of their lives -- routinely dive in 10 feet of viz, or sometimes worse. We conduct OW and AOW classes in those conditions all the time. Poor viz is no excuse for an accident. Poor viz is no excuse for losing a student on descent.
 
I don't know what caused or contributed to this accident. I doubt anyone knows the whole story and no one ever will. However, I have a lot of experience teaching in Singapore. I see how many shops teach and how many of their students dive after their courses. Too many shops cut too many corners in order to meet the price expectations of potential students. Open water courses end up with theory classes taught by "do these quizzes and the exam then I'll tell you what you got wrong". Pool sessions are 10 students for one instructor in one day. Sunday is the popular day for training because the only real place for training here is open for a whole 6 hours. It's easy to have more than 100 students in a 25m pool that day but only for about 4 hours. They other two hours are spent explaining how gear works, how to set it up, how to clean up and to eat lunch. Each student has one chance to do each drill. After it's "sort of" done, it's the next student's turn. There is very little time for practice & reinforcement of drills, little time (or space) for swimming around and figuring out neutral buoyancy, etc. As a result of such teaching, some students end up panicking at the first sign of trouble whether it's water in the mask, aspiration of water, separation from buddy / instructor, etc.

Again, I am not saying that this is what happened in this case but I would not bet against it either. There is talk locally, trying to address the problem through the Singapore Underwater Federation, but much of the talk is either draconian rules or a minimum price for courses. IMHO, it would be much better to impose minimum pool time for students. For example, if one or two students are in the class, they must be in the pool for a minimum of 8 hours. More students in the class means more time in the water. If a shop still wants to use the course as a loss-leader, then they'll have to cut corners other than safety.
 
I believe there was no penetration at all. She went missing on the descent. This was the deep adventure dive portion of the advanced course. I also had about 150 dives before taking the advanced course but for some divers, I see some useful reasons for doing the AOW course immediately after the OW course. One point though is that it takes both experience and training to become a real "advanced" diver. Getting only one of those with out the other is almost as useless). The instructor needed about 30m depth to teach it well. My speculation was that she was either not ready for the AOW course or should have been watched much more closely during the dive.

I done my AOW just after my OW but it was a small ratio. 3:1
When we dive, we stick in group.

Now, I dive, I stick quite close to my buddy. The distance will depends on situation. If a calm sea, it would be two body away from me, a drift/low vis dive, it will be arm length.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

---------- Post added April 24th, 2014 at 11:46 PM ----------

Thanks for posting.
Was that a touch of harassment of marine life for the record....?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

no dude, i dont touch marine life

---------- Post added April 24th, 2014 at 11:56 PM ----------

I don't know what caused or contributed to this accident. I doubt anyone knows the whole story and no one ever will. However, I have a lot of experience teaching in Singapore. I see how many shops teach and how many of their students dive after their courses. Too many shops cut too many corners in order to meet the price expectations of potential students. Open water courses end up with theory classes taught by "do these quizzes and the exam then I'll tell you what you got wrong". Pool sessions are 10 students for one instructor in one day. Sunday is the popular day for training because the only real place for training here is open for a whole 6 hours. It's easy to have more than 100 students in a 25m pool that day but only for about 4 hours. They other two hours are spent explaining how gear works, how to set it up, how to clean up and to eat lunch. Each student has one chance to do each drill. After it's "sort of" done, it's the next student's turn. There is very little time for practice & reinforcement of drills, little time (or space) for swimming around and figuring out neutral buoyancy, etc. As a result of such teaching, some students end up panicking at the first sign of trouble whether it's water in the mask, aspiration of water, separation from buddy / instructor, etc.

Again, I am not saying that this is what happened in this case but I would not bet against it either. There is talk locally, trying to address the problem through the Singapore Underwater Federation, but much of the talk is either draconian rules or a minimum price for courses. IMHO, it would be much better to impose minimum pool time for students. For example, if one or two students are in the class, they must be in the pool for a minimum of 8 hours. More students in the class means more time in the water. If a shop still wants to use the course as a loss-leader, then they'll have to cut corners other than safety.

with 8 hrs of training, i do not think it is more than enough also

i have done pool session myself and i had practise in the pool for at least 20 hrs or more, to perfect my finning and trim.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom