Carbon Monoxide suspected in near drowning - Virgin Islands

[DandyDon]

When I was a child, my folks wouldn't let us run our primitive propane space heaters after bedtime and that was about all we could do to protect ourselves. Technological improvements have made room monitors and tank testers so cheap and dependable, much of the risk has been removed - if we use them. I always take a room CO monitor on any overnight trip as hotels usually don't have them in every room, if at all, but they all have water heaters even in warm weather - and I take my tank CO tester to check every tank on any diving trip as it's all too possible for only a few or even one tank of a lot to be tainted. Too cheap & easy not to protect ourselves nowadays.

Some of the reported story doesn't make sense, as is often the case...

“When the air level in the tank gets down to under 1,500 pounds, if there is any contamination, it will have settled to this bottom level. There is no smell or taste, and you can’t see it,” Rodriguez said.

CO mixes with tank air easily with similar mass & weight, so that statement is just wrong - but the rest of the story could well fit a CO hit, and ascending in such an event can indeed make the CO blood content more dangerous as PPO declines. No mention of tank air testing, but then it's rare for operators and authorities to have tank CO testers even now. While proof is lacking in this incident, the only way to know if any tank is safe is to test it - and tank testers can be rented for trips if you don't want to own one. So called reputable fillers are no assurance, nor are inline CO monitors even tho all fillers should use them.

See the lengthy story at Former fire-rescue chief saves friend’s life in diving drama | Marco Island Sun Times | marcoislandflorida.com
At least they plan to get a CO tester now. He was so lucky to have such an expert rescue diver taking control.

 

[nadwidny]

When I was a child, my folks wouldn't let us run our primitive propane space heaters after bedtime and that was about all we could do to protect ourselves. Technological improvements have made room monitors and tank testers so cheap and dependable, much of the risk has been removed - if we use them. I always take a room CO monitor on any overnight trip as hotels usually don't have them in every room,

That explains a lot of things about your obsession with CO.

 

[DandyDon]

That explains a lot of things about your obsession with CO.

Maybe. I doubt it tho, as many of us have had more CO contact than reasonable - but survived. I ended up back in that old farm house for several years, perhaps draftier than before, and slept many nights with the space heaters going before room CO monitors became easily available. Surviving those risks may have made a bigger impact?

Or maybe it just irritates me that we have good, affordable technology to catch exposures now, yet with no other dependable way, but the hits keep happening - in homes, hotels, restauranteurs, cars, diving, etc. My home dive bud has had CO monitors save his butt a few times, in his house with a smoldering fireplace, in his shop with an ancient heater, and on a Cozumel boat we were on once.

 

[wolfgangmob]

My LDS had a diver on a trip who was a volunteer fireman fill their SCUBA tank where they do their SCBA and dove with it, ended up getting sick around 30ft and came up. When they got to shore the DM used an oxygen analyzer and it was oddly low, he purged the air a bit and could smell a difference in the air. Turned out the filling station had bad filters and there was oil was getting into the air along with CO and high levels of CO2.

 

[jdkerner]

Looks like a CO detector would be worth owning. Any recommendations?

 

[Mr. Black]

That explains a lot of things about your obsession with CO.

Dandydon's CO Crusade (tm) is well placed IMHO.

Yeah, he takes it to the extreme by setting up a CO monitor in his hotel room (how many people have perished in their sleep in hotels because of CO???) there is a real case to be made for CO testing in Scuba.

I bought a CO tester years ago and tested almost every tank I dove - usually found nothing. One time I had the test device back with the manufacturer to fix a calibration problem. I was diving all month with a trusted LDS whom I dove over 100 dives with over the years and never had CO in any tank I ever tested.

Several minutes into the dive at around 100 feet I got a splitting headache followed minutes later by nausea. I had planned to go as deep as 140 ft that dive. I felt very "wrong" switched to my pony, aborted the dive and went back to the boat. On the boat I felt a mixture of migraine, seasickness and the flu that took hours to clear.

Sat the next dive out, took a day off. Felt fine on the morning of day 2. Went back diving on day 3 and got the same trouble within minutes of first dive.

That time I aborted the dive again and went home. Left my tanks as they were because wasn't sure when I would dive next. Meanwhile my CO tester comes back from service. I go stick it on whats left of my tank and pony and got high readings of CO. I don't remember the figure but it was in the triple digits. - Normally I reject any tank with more than 10ppm.

Subsequent investigation turned out that there had been construction work on a neighboring property that week and they had a gas-powered cement mixer some 30 feet from the door to the compressor room with the wind blowing that way.

So it is absolutely possible that a trusted LDS with a clean compressor has part of a batch of tanks contaminated with CO. The effects of this will vary person by person and also depend on how many ATA you are breathing it at but it definitely isn't very nice to say the least. A couple of hundred ppm more and a couple of feet deeper with the stars aligned correctly you may well blackout / panic / die.

At first I thought this is a risk I can live with (I mean come on.. What are the odds.... We only dive with good operators, right?)... But since this incident I have had another couple of random CO readings off various tanks with various operators. If its just ~5ppm and a recreational dive I will dive it. Have dove a couple of tanks like that without any symptoms. But anything over 10ppm I will have a discrete conversation with the operator and reject the tank. Even stricter with technical dives.

I am all in DandyDon's camp now

Well... Except I do sleep in hotel rooms without CO monitors

---------- Post added July 31st, 2014 at 02:19 AM ----------

Looks like a CO detector would be worth owning. Any recommendations?

I use Analox

Nice unit but sensors are a bit pricey and don't last very long at least in my experience.

Also hearing good things about the Oxycheq unit which I am in the process of switching to.

 

[DandyDon]

Dandydon's CO Crusade (tm) is well placed IMHO.

Yeah, he takes it to the extreme by setting up a CO monitor in his hotel room (how many people have perished in their sleep in hotels because of CO???) there is a real case to be made for CO testing in Scuba.

Not many, but a few - yes. They all have water heater and I bet all of those are gas powered, so yeah I take one even on tropical trips. Also see...

Deaths of 3 in same hotel room blamed on carbon monoxide - CNN.com

Hotel guests face carbon monoxide risk

Eight people have died and at least 170 others have been treated for carbon monoxide poisoning in the past three years in hotels, which rarely are equipped with CO alarms, a USA TODAY investigation finds. (continued at link)

I doubt the hotel has room heaters, but still: Palm Springs hotel guest died of carbon monoxide poisoning, coroner says - Los Angeles Times

Carbon Monoxide Poisoning - Hotels and Resorts

Deadly amounts of carbon monoxide force hotel evacuation - KCBD NewsChannel 11 Lubbock

This one is just down the road from me: Carbon monoxide poisoning suspected in death, injury in Lubbock motel on I-27 | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

I bought a CO tester years ago and tested almost every tank I dove - usually found nothing. One time I had the test device back with the manufacturer to fix a calibration problem. I was diving all month with a trusted LDS whom I dove over 100 dives with over the years and never had CO in any tank I ever tested.

Several minutes into the dive at around 100 feet I got a splitting headache followed minutes later by nausea. I had planned to go as deep as 140 ft that dive. I felt very "wrong" switched to my pony, aborted the dive and went back to the boat. On the boat I felt a mixture of migraine, seasickness and the flu that took hours to clear.

Sat the next dive out, took a day off. Felt fine on the morning of day 2. Went back diving on day 3 and got the same trouble within minutes of first dive.

That time I aborted the dive again and went home. Left my tanks as they were because wasn't sure when I would dive next. Meanwhile my CO tester comes back from service. I go stick it on whats left of my tank and pony and got high readings of CO. I don't remember the figure but it was in the triple digits. - Normally I reject any tank with more than 10ppm.

Subsequent investigation turned out that there had been construction work on a neighboring property that week and they had a gas-powered cement mixer some 30 feet from the door to the compressor room with the wind blowing that way.

So it is absolutely possible that a trusted LDS with a clean compressor has part of a batch of tanks contaminated with CO. The effects of this will vary person by person and also depend on how many ATA you are breathing it at but it definitely isn't very nice to say the least. A couple of hundred ppm more and a couple of feet deeper with the stars aligned correctly you may well blackout / panic / die.

At first I thought this is a risk I can live with (I mean come on.. What are the odds.... We only dive with good operators, right?)... But since this incident I have had another couple of random CO readings off various tanks with various operators. If its just ~5ppm and a recreational dive I will dive it. Have dove a couple of tanks like that without any symptoms. But anything over 10ppm I will have a discrete conversation with the operator and reject the tank. Even stricter with technical dives.

I am all in DandyDon's camp now

Glad you survived. Those were very close calls.

Actually, I am surprised you did survive. Very high readings on tanks taken deep - wow!

Well... Except I do sleep in hotel rooms without CO monitors

The only way to be sure they're safe is take your own monitor.

I hope you have monitors in all bedrooms at home.

 

[shoredivr]

About 20 years ago, on New Years's Day morning at 7am the CO monitor that I had bought and left in the basement - not yet installed - suddenly went off. Still feeling the effects of New Years's celebrations (I thought) I tried to figure out what the racket was that woke me up. Nauseated, I stumbled down into the basement. The noise was coming from inside the furnace room. The door of the furnace room was slimy with moisture as I opened it, and I finally figured out the racket that was splitting my skull came from the CO monitor. Oh. I thought. Thoughts came really slowly. I actually stopped and opened the window in the furnace room to get air moving.

Eons later, it seemed, I made my way back upstairs, told my friend the CO monitor was making the racket, and went and called Consumers Gas to have them come out and look at the furnace. No cell phone then, I used the land line. They said get out of the house. Immediately. I took my two dogs and my friend and we sat in my car in the middle of Canadian winter. The gas company team arrived in less than 15 minutes.

The CO readings on their monitor was 400PPM for the basement. They said that amount could kill my dogs, and eventually humans, and why the hell were we all still inside after it went off? I explained that I had just bought it on New Years Eve day and hadn't plugged it into the wall outlet yet, I had just put batteries in it, meaning to figure out what outlet to plug it into later. My splitting headache and feelings of nausea and stupidity caused by CO - not alcohol - were fading and I was starting to realize the very close call we had.

The gas company said stay out of the house for 6 hours, they opened windows and doors. Once levels had dropped to zero, they went in and inspected the furnace. Turned out that *despite* having it serviced by qualified professionals from Con Gas for the three years I'd lived there, a buildup of soot in the lower chimney had collapsed and blocked the flue, sending CO into the basement. The cause of this soot buildup was a piece of packing wire that should have been removed when the furnace was installed for the previous owner by the gas company's trained professionals. That three inch length of wire allowed soot to build up. The service technicians in subsequent years never put their little vacuum cleaners that far into the flue, never noticed the wire. The gas company inspector showed me exactly where they should vacuum to, and said stand over them while they clean next time to be sure it gets done right. Really.

We were very lucky. I am a fan of CO monitors.

 

[DandyDon]

We were very lucky. I am a fan of CO2 monitors.

They are your last dependable defense, as your story illustrates - thinking the problem out is difficult when your brain is O2 deprived, if you wake up long enough to think?

My daughter's family thought it silly to have CO monitors in all the bedrooms of their all electric home, but they have an attached garage, a fireplace, and other risks not so obvious - so I bought their units in hopes they'll keep them in use, like yours - AC & DC powered both. Got her one for her classroom too as her school still doesn't provide them and the fire department inspector doesn't even mention the risk.

Big difference between CO and CO2 tho. It's just a typo, but can cause confusion - so you might want to edit your post.

 

[shoredivr]

Ha ah right you are DD.... Edited.