Court: Scuba death suit can proceed even though man signed waiver

[miketsp]

I take a couple of close friends that I have been diving with for years out on my private boat. I have been wanting to get some new dive buddies in my area to join in but am wondering about liability. I'm not a charter, I am not an instructor or Dive Master, but we do all pitch in for gas and expenses. This makes me a little nervous about taking out someone I don't really know. If there was an incident would I be open to lawsuit or be considered responsible? I know I am responsible for safe operation of a vessel, but what about when they step off the swim step?

This is not a qualified legal opinion but I remember reading a similar question from a guy trying to set up an informal club and the answer was to make sure that you are not the identified or even assumed dive-leader.
You are responsible for the vessel, yes, but if you clearly choose the dive site and procedures and do the dive planning as a group then you are sharing the risk provided there is not a substantial difference in qualification level. Do not impose any procedures on your friends. Make suggestions, sure, but always get a vote even if it's informal.
Do not set up gear for anybody unless they ask you to "help".
If they give you money it must be clearly understood that it is not for any service.
Make sure that the gas & expenses calculations are explicit. If necessary give everybody a copy of the calculation.

[WJL]

This is not a qualified legal opinion but I remember reading a similar question from a guy trying to set up an informal club and the answer was to make sure that you are not the identified or even assumed dive-leader.
You are responsible for the vessel, yes, but if you clearly choose the dive site and procedures and do the dive planning as a group then you are sharing the risk provided there is not a substantial difference in qualification level. Do not impose any procedures on your friends. Make suggestions, sure, but always get a vote even if it's informal.
Do not set up gear for anybody unless they ask you to "help".
If they give you money it must be clearly understood that it is not for any service.
Make sure that the gas & expenses calculations are explicit. If necessary give everybody a copy of the calculation.

This kind of post is what I mean by not relying on the internet for legal advice. The basis for miketsp's opinion is what some other guy, whose credentials are unknown, posted in reply to some other question. I know miketsp is just trying to be helpful, but his advice (and the advice of wolf eel - Derek that miketsp is referring to) is not what a competent attorney would give. If you think ScubaBoard is the way to get reliable legal advice, God bless you and keep you, and make sure you own nothing you would care to lose to a judgment creditor.

[DEEPLOU]

This is not legeal advise. But if anything happens to anyone, (except yourself) , you are going to get sued.
Whether or not they win or not will be up to your attorney, their attorney and the judge.

[MoonWrasse]

Having browsed through this entire thread, I'm still unclear exactly how the guy drowned and his body went missing for so long. Anyone have any info about this? Was an accident report filed (before the body was discovered)?

[miketsp]

This kind of post is what I mean by not relying on the internet for legal advice. The basis for miketsp's opinion is what some other guy, whose credentials are unknown, posted in reply to some other question. I know miketsp is just trying to be helpful, but his advice (and the advice of wolf eel - Derek that miketsp is referring to) is not what a competent attorney would give. If you think ScubaBoard is the way to get reliable legal advice, God bless you and keep you, and make sure you own nothing you would care to lose to a judgment creditor.

Continuing on the line of being helpful, in an unqualified manner. Another possible way around this problem is of course that everybody signs a disclaimer:
Example supplied by a friend of a friend of a friend - no guarantees given

Disclaimer (to be signed by participant before first outing) - Version 1.0, March 2005

I, (PRINT NAME) ______, hereby state that I wish to participate in the activities offered by JOHN SMITH and friends (known as JS&F in this agreement), a non-profit informal organization. I recognize diving may involve certain dangers, including but not limited to the hazards of equipment failures, physiological effects, travelling on open water, accidents or illness in remote places, forces of nature, and the actions of participants and other persons. I further understand and agree that without some program providing protection of each members assets and its designated leaders, JS&F would not be able to operate.

For the right to participate in the activities offered by JS&F, I agree to release, hold harmless and indemnify JS&F and its members from any and all liability, claims and causes of action arising out of or in any way connected with my participation or the participation of any minor that I am signing on behalf of in any activities offered by JS&F. I personally assume all risks in connection with these activities. If I am signing on behalf of a minor, I further agree to hold harmless and indemnify JS&F and its members from all liability, claims and causes of action which the minor may have arising from the minor`s participation in activities. The terms of this agreement shall serve as a release and indemnity agreement for my heirs, personal representative, and for all members of my family, including any minors. (Parent or legal guardian must sign for all persons under eighteen [18] years of age.)

I understand that operational expenses will be shared among the participants of each outing and that such payment does not represent any commercial relationship between myself, or the minor I represent, and JS&F, and I further understand that I am in no way contracting the services of JOHN SMITH or any of the other participants in said activities.

I have read this release and indemnity agreement and have fully informed myself of its contents before I have signed it.

Signature of Participant: _______________, Date:___

Signature of Parent or Guardian if Participant is under 18 years of age: _______, Date:____

Participant Contact Address, Tel, Fax, Email/Other

Emergency Contact Address, Tel, Fax, Email/Other

[endorfin]

thanks for the input, I don't really expect expert legal advice in this forum, because as we all know anybody can sue for anything and usually the best Layers or the most money wins. I appreciate the local knowlege and experience feedback, it is helpfull.

thanks, tony

[Leadking]

We've all signed the waivers, and frankly - I don't read them anymore. I figure that if I don't sign, I don't dive, so I sign them. This news sheds new light to me, though...

It's my understanding that waivers do not help because you cannot sign away unknown negligance (perceived or otherwise).

[DivePartner1]

It's my understanding that waivers do not help because you cannot sign away unknown negligance (perceived or otherwise).

Nope. See, http://www.scubaboard.com/t37374-and...dismissed.html

[DEEPLOU]

DivePartner1 Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadking
It's my understanding that waivers do not help because you cannot sign away unknown negligance (perceived or otherwise).



Nope. See, http://www.scubaboard.com/t37374-an...-dismissed.html

In reading the documentation on the Andrea Doria case, the court noted that even if the waiver was invalid, there was no evidence of negligance anyway.

[Leadking]

In reading the documentation on the Andrea Doria case, the court noted that even if the waiver was invalid, there was no evidence of negligance anyway.

I did not mean to imply there was negligence, only that waivers are not blanket protection.