Zero to hero Divemaster program in 30 days - thoughts?

[Teamcasa]

A thread in the Marketplace
Zero to hero Divemaster program in 30 days
has stirred some intersting comments not appropriate for the Marketplace so I'd like to discuss the idea here.

Is this sort of fast tracking safe? Unsafe? Thoughts?

[Thalassamania]

Here is the basis for the discusssion:

We have created a special training program for those divers that know they want to be a dive pro. We have a no dives to divemaster program, it includes 60 dives on our CG inspected dive vessel, all air fills, tanks, weights, and an Divemaster internship. Proagram price includes all dives open water thru DM Cert and all Certs from open water, advanced, nitrox, rescue, EFR, and Divemaster
We are located in San Deigo California. Please see the following link.
International Fire Rescue Academy - Home
full price is 2,4950. US dollars. Housing is avialable.
Once you have your DM Cert you can go directly to IDC.

Hey everyone let me talk, that is usually best anyway. Their are alot of people wanting to change jobs right now, and if your are attacking the market value, PADI only requires 60 dives In the program you dive Friday Night, Saturday all day, Sunday all day. We are 180 degrees from what you are saying. We are going the extra mile to make a great DM. We are looking at your training from day one, that you are going to be pro and we are expecting the best from the candidate. Since you are throwing stones I would be scared of myself if the only knowledge I had of safety was from the Diving Community. The 30 day program is everyday all day. 0700 until 2100 at night. It is by design a product of dealing with DM(s) who only know how to serve food and know nothing about dive medicine or Emergency Response. We are going to teach the real deal, not just what is read in pretty book. Students have the option to do time in ER at the hospital, Ride with the Beach Lifeguards, and local EMS. You cannot tell me that someone with no practical real world experience has he ability to manage a rescue and or medical emergency. That is why every Public Safety Agency has supervisors.

We are offering training from Public Safety PROS, who are also PADI pros, no standards are being breached. A DM is a Professional not a layman, yet he is using layman skills, CPR and AED are for the layman not the pro. Most remote international resorts do not have staff trained to the level of the US, and we seek to change that. We also know that only diving in one area does not make you good diver, so we offer diving on wrecks, in kelp, cold water, Deep Dives, good vis, bad vis, diving on real dive boat seeing what is presented everyday to a DM. Divers from the mid west with 7 dives that want to go to 90 feet with their spouse because they don't feel the need for advanced training. It is real world training. All day everyday. So when you leave. you are not learning at the expense of a novice diver, you already know how step in and be a PRO and supervise.
So.............stop bagging on something you know nothing about, the PADI IDC does not teach any more skills that you learned in DM. So.................If your knowledge is not strong as a DM it wont be strong as PADI OWSI. We are going to produce PROS who can swim, handle a small boat, understand nitrox and oxygen toxicity, Dive Medicine, and more. If it was about our bank account then we would not offer the program for 2,500 bucks. The instructors are working Paramedics, Homeland Security divers, as well as PADI PROS. We will take as much time as needed with a Student to get them to pro level. I guarantee it, we will make you a pro.

PADI Allows three training dives in a day. You can dive outside training. The DM Course only requires 50 hours of instruction. If a student is not able to log the dives for whatever reason then they can make it up. We are not charging by the dive we will spend as much time with a student that a student needs to pass. And we dive Nitrox not air the student gets a Nitrox cert right after open water. If anyone has any issues you are welcome to audit the class for free. If a student is in the water at 0600 and classroom is not over until 2100 it is possible.

The program is for students who are serious about diving. Look at the dive tables. We are not outside PADI standards. If student is not up to diving then we can go an extra weekend, no problem, no charge. A Candidate needs to have gotten the materials and studied them before they get in program, Just like the IDC, you should have your knowledge reviews done before you get to class. We encourage getting the bookwork done thru the PADI website and get all the knowledge reviews done before your session starts. But to call the program a JOKE with no knowledge of what is being done is very foolish.

Look folks, the purpose of the program is to go the extra mile, and start someone diving from day one with developing their skills to the highest level. That means starting in open water we leave nothing to chance, every skill is perfected. Someone commented on buoyancy, that should have been learned in the advanced course, not in DM. For those of you who are instructors, the brainless DM(s) are a product of your teaching, not PADI. The PADI DM is laid out very specific, when a student has to correct the instructor, the instructor needs to hit the books. We have had Navy Scuba Divers who know more than the instructor, the information is in the PADI material a person just needs to study it and restudy it like anything else. The program is not a Vacation. It is about study and Diving, nothing else. No time for the PUB. Anyone who says their are brainless DM(s) working at the resorts need's to look at the Instructors who trained them. By the standard it is a mentor relationship, and that is what we are doing, every bit of information we can give a student we will offer it.

I'm frankly taken with the idea of a "homeland security diver" credential.

[SteveAD]

20 years ago I progressed from open water to instructor in 1 year. I didn't have that as a goal, I simply kept doing the next class each time it was offered. When I suddenly found myself as the instuctor fielding a bunch of "have you ever..." questions, I realized that while I had the knowledge and the credentials, I didn't have the experience to be a good instructor. I put teaching on hold and concentrated on diving for a couple of years. This was NOT a zero to hero, this took a full year. trying to take a non diver even to the DM level in 6 weeks is a guarunteed recipe for an overconfident, underqualified DM. I would never even consider hiring a product of a zero to hero program. It may not rise to the level of unsafe, but it will not produce a high quality dive professional.

[Blackwood]

I'm frankly taken with the idea of a "homeland security diver" credential.

Is that someone who will look at my driver's license with a spiffy flashlight before scribbling on my boat boarding pass and letting me through?

[Teamcasa]

Steve, Given your response below, let me ask a hypothetical question.

If a diver that had 1000's of dives, in many different conditions but never really thought about being an instructor found himself out of work. He signed up for the course and passed with flying colors, would you feel the same way?

20 years ago I progressed from open water to instructor in 1 year. I didn't have that as a goal, I simply kept doing the next class each time it was offered. When I suddenly found myself as the instuctor fielding a bunch of "have you ever..." questions, I realized that while I had the knowledge and the credentials, I didn't have the experience to be a good instructor. I put teaching on hold and concentrated on diving for a couple of years. This was NOT a zero to hero, this took a full year. trying to take a non diver even to the DM level in 6 weeks is a guarunteed recipe for an overconfident, underqualified DM. I would never even consider hiring a product of a zero to hero program. It may not rise to the level of unsafe, but it will not produce a high quality dive professional.

[Blackwood]

Steve, Given your response below, let me ask a hypothetical question.

If a diver that had 1000's of dives, in many different conditions but never really thought about being an instructor found himself out of work. He signed up for the course and passed with flying colors, would you feel the same way?

I don't believe a diver with 1000s of dives applies to his response below (well, above I guess :P). It specifically referred to "zero to hero."

[Web Monkey]

A thread in the Marketplace
Zero to hero Divemaster program in 30 days
has stirred some intersting comments not appropriate for the Marketplace so I'd like to discuss the idea here.

Is this sort of fast tracking safe? Unsafe? Thoughts?

The ways this could go horribly wrong are nearly infinite.

30 days of diving is hardly enough to be a safe, competent diver with a buddy. It's absolutely off-the-wall-stupid to promote a 30 day diver as a "Divemaster" with group management and safety responsibilities, regardless of whether or not it's permissible within PADI's rules.

Terry

[Teamcasa]

I don't believe a diver with 1000s of dives applies to his response below (well, above I guess :P). It specifically referred to "zero to hero."

The ways this could go horribly wrong are nearly infinite.

30 days of diving is hardly enough to be a safe, competent diver with a buddy. It's absolutely off-the-wall-stupid to promote a 30 day diver as a "Divemaster" with group management and safety responsibilities, regardless of whether or not it's permissible within PADI's rules.

Terry

Sure, but don't forget that they actually have to pass the course to become a DM, right? A zero may take the course but there is also zero guarantee that they make it through.

Assuming - mind you assuming the instructors are not like a few of my old Boy Scout merit badge counselors and more like the instructors I had when I first started diving, they may indeed produce some good DM's.

[gkndivebum]

Curious question. I didn't become a divemaster until I had over 500 dives, and didn't become an instructor until over 1000. An intensive training program such as this is an interesting idea, but I do hesitate a bit because of the notion that 60 +/- dives doesn't give you much a base of experience to draw upon.

[muddiver]

Zero to Diver in less than a month was also batted around years ago. Now look at all the "certified in a weekend" programs availabe. Good luck fighting the marketing and sales mentality.