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Advanced Scuba DiscussionsHave a Scuba question that's beyond a 'basic' one but not really 'technical?' Get it answered here. Please note: See the Special Forum Rules / Terms of Service thread.
The PADI recreational dive planner makes a 3 minute 15' safety stop "mandatory" on NDL dives below 100 feet and anytime when getting within 3 pressure groups of the NDL.
When a stop becomes mandatory should it still be called a safety stop or should it call a decompression stop or something else and if the stop is mandatory is it still an NDL dive.
Does missing a mandatory safety stop on the PADI table put a diver at greater risk than a diver skipping an optional safety stop on another table.
Opinions?
Mine is that calling it a safety stop is a bit misleading since by original definition a safety stop was recommended but optional and is optional on other tables.
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Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool
This has been debated endlessly - to no resolution.
Many of the long time divers will say that NDL is just what it says it is: No Decompression Limit. These 'mandatory' or 'recommended' safety stops should NOT be required.
OTOH, PADI made up the tables and they did the testing. It might be unwise to simply blow off their recommendations. But it is also PADI that creates this mess because other tables don't require ANY 'safety' stops and are quite clear about deco stops. NAUI tables come to mind...
But NAUI changed their tables in 1989 to move from a 60 fpm ascent rate to 30 fpm. They also RADICALLY changed how repetitive dives work out. There are examples of perfectly acceptable PADI repetitive dives that simply can't be made with the current NAUI tables.
I'm not much on the 3 minute 15' stop. I don't recall having ever made one. But I started with the 1987 NAUI tables and I still tend to think in those terms.
I think a diver needs to stand on one side of the river or the other. Straddling the thing will not be satisfactory. So, if a diver wants to use PADI tables, they should, in my view, use them EXACTLY the way they are supposed to be used including the 'mandatory' no-deco-limit 'safety' stops.
Then again, there are rumors that PADI will be giving up on tables and this whole debate goes away. Besides, nobody actually uses tables. They simply buy a computer and hope for the best.
Then again, there are rumors that PADI will be giving up on tables and this whole debate goes away. Besides, nobody actually uses tables. They simply buy a computer and hope for the best.
I use the tables when I do the planning. Is there anything better to use to plan multiple dives to different depths a day?
OTOH, PADI made up the tables and they did the testing. It might be unwise to simply blow off their recommendations.
The recommendation of a "mandatory safety stop" came as a result of testing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by iztok
I use the tables when I do the planning. Is there anything better to use to plan multiple dives to different depths a day?
There are a myriad of tools available, including tables, PADI's wheel and eRDPml, most dive computers, desktop software packages, ratio deco/MDL, etc..
I use the tables when I do the planning. Is there anything better to use to plan multiple dives to different depths a day?
As said there are many options out there. I prefer like many to use Vplanner.
Some days you just don't feel 110% so its nice to be able to adjust your conservatism in order to make up for days your not 110% or if you know your going to be working it a little harder than normal.
Programs like this also work well when going away for a weekend or doing a couple of days in a day to ensure you have plenty of Gas, as you can plug in your details and it will spit out how much of what gas you should consume on that dive.
I use the tables when I do the planning. Is there anything better to use to plan multiple dives to different depths a day?
I find software a lot more convenient than tables. Dragging a laptop on the dive boat is no longer required if you have a smart phone or PDA.
On the iPhone: iScuba Plan is great for NDL diving, iDeco works really well for more complex dives, and there is a VPlanner as well which I haven't tried because of the cost (and is probably too advanced for what I need).
I find software a lot more convenient than tables. Dragging a laptop on the dive boat is no longer required if you have a smart phone or PDA.
On the iPhone: iScuba Plan is great for NDL diving, iDeco works really well for more complex dives, and there is a VPlanner as well which I haven't tried because of the cost (and is probably too advanced for what I need).
The recommendation of a "mandatory safety stop" came as a result of testing?
I wouldn't know... I do know that PADI actually did some testing. But, as all they are asking for is a 3 minute stop at 15', why not just follow the directions?
I understand the incongruity of mandating a safety stop for NDL tables. But the debate is pointless. Either a diver will opt on the side of caution and follow the directions, or they won't.
Maybe they'll get hurt; maybe they won't.
A lot of people make a routine 3 minute 15' stop anyway.
But this safety stop is more likely related to PADI allowing a 60 fpm ascent rate than anything else. NAUI backed away from that about 20 years ago when they changed to 30 fpm. Hence no safety stop for the NAUI tables. But then, they didn't have safety stops when they used 60 fpm either.
Besides, nobody takes their tables underwater anymore. How would they know if they were within 3 pressure groups of the NDL? Just make the 3 minute stop and don't worry about it.
In the old days, I wrote the adjusted NDLs on a slate before every dive. With my depth gauge and dive timer, I knew exactly where I was. If I overstayed, all I had to do was pull out my NAUI tables and see what deco stop was required. Today there is no way in he** I could read those tables without my glasses.
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