Creatine & DCS Prevention?

SCUBA482 · November 7th, 2009, 12:34 AM

I was wondering if anybody has information as to the possibility that creatine can help reduce DCS? I have used creatine during workouts and know that it helps to retain water in the muscles. If this leads to better retaining of water then can an argument be made it MAY help stave off DCS? Thoughts?

vjanelle · November 7th, 2009, 01:12 AM

There's probably zero research into this.

Diving Medicine - ScubaBoard

Might want to ask here though.

Bubbletrubble · November 7th, 2009, 02:39 AM

You're probably taking creatine supplements to increase muscle mass and/or enhance athletic performance. There are several studies that indicate creatine supplementation can increase strength and endurance when dosed in certain ways (loading + maintenance, etc.). However, potential side effects of long-term use of creatine supplements may include: muscle cramps, stomach cramps, diarrhea, nausea, seizures, and dehydration. There also exists a potential danger of renal toxicity when creatine is taken alone or in combination with certain over-the-counter medications (cimetidine, NSAIDs, etc.).

Interestingly, vegetarians might benefit most from creatine supplementation since they normally have lower levels of creatine than those who eat meat. In one well-controlled study, vegetarians supplemented with creatine demonstrated enhanced cognitive and memory performance.

Long-term effects of creatine supplementation are unknown.

It has been hypothesized that creatine causes a fluid shift into skeletal muscle cells. There appears to be a fair amount of disagreement in the literature as to whether this actually occurs. To the contrary, Powers et al. demonstrated that creatine supplementation increases total body water without altering fluid distribution among the body compartments. If this is the case, theoretically speaking, one could argue that creatine supplementation might guard against DCS.

Based on all of this research:
If you are a vegetarian, there might be substantial benefits to creatine supplementation.
If you are a child/young adult, you might not want to take creatine due to the unknown long-term effects of its use.
If you are an elite athlete, you are probably more concerned with the proven performance enhancement of creatine supplementation than the unknown long-term side effects.
If you are a diver, there is a potential theoretical benefit with respect to DCS (increase of total body water)...but this is mitigated by the potential risk of dehydration (unknown mechanism, perhaps fluid shift from extracellular to intracellular compartment).

It seems to me there are just too many unknowns when it comes to creatine supplementation. Why be a guinea pig?

mafiajoe · November 7th, 2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUBA482

I was wondering if anybody has information as to the possibility that creatine can help reduce DCS? I have used creatine during workouts and know that it helps to retain water in the muscles. If this leads to better retaining of water then can an argument be made it MAY help stave off DCS? Thoughts?

Look I can tell you about my brush with creatine.Nothing to with diving but....
a few years ago I took up taking creatine like you during workouts.I can't remember exactly the doses but i took it for no more than 3-4 months.Well,I was on holiday in Spain and BANG!...I ended up in a Barcelona hospital with a kidney colic!Painful like hell!You can't imagine....a pain that changes your personality forever!I'd never suffered from kidney stones before(besides I've always been drinking plenty of water)and I've never suffered ever since.When this happened i had just stopped taking creatine just because I was on holiday.I never took it again and as I said no more problem ever since.I "passed" the stone a few months later just before I was due to surgery!THANK GOD FOR THAT!!
Coincidence?Maybe but.......

SCUBA482 · November 7th, 2009, 02:13 PM

Not taking it now, have in the past....i have never had a problem as outlined above, but not saying it's not possible...curious as to use in (moderation) to load water into your cells prior to diving by a day or two would be beneficial....not too concerned about the hard core workout issue, just wether or not it's been considered a helpful supplement for loading cells to help prevent DCS...guess there could be tons of pros and cons according to personal experiences, but was trying to look at just the interest I've outlined...ill post same question in the dive medicine that vjanelle suggested or maybe the mods can move the topic there?

Garth · November 7th, 2009, 08:33 PM

Why stop there... creatine only puts some water in your tissues. What about taking the real thing if your crazy enough. Testosterone injections when used without an estrogen blocking agent in men can aromatize into estrogen which really packs on the water (and the swollen look). Might this help reduce DCS. well, if we are only looking at water retention. others...
corticosteroids like prednisone.
I wouldn't use creatine for diving but I like the thought process your using, sorry if i took this overboard (pun).

Web Monkey · November 7th, 2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUBA482

I was wondering if anybody has information as to the possibility that creatine can help reduce DCS? I have used creatine during workouts and know that it helps to retain water in the muscles. If this leads to better retaining of water then can an argument be made it MAY help stave off DCS? Thoughts?

FWIW, I tend to not screw with my body chemistry and reduce my risk of DCS by keeping well hydrated, staying away from the edge of the no-deco limits for no-deco dives and avoiding unnecessary exercise right after the dive as per our own Dr. Deco:

It's worked so far.

Terry

Mr Carcharodon · November 8th, 2009, 06:19 PM

I’d start by looking at the premise that hydration lowers DCS risk. Nice theory, make perfect sense, but is there any evidence that backs it up? Also remember according to DAN DCS accounts for 2% of all diving accidents. So an unproven hypothesis, multiplied by a wild guess, multiplied by a low starting probability suggests that the chance that this will help approaches nil.

Web Monkey · November 8th, 2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Carcharodon

I’d start by looking at the premise that hydration lowers DCS risk. Nice theory, make perfect sense, but is there any evidence that backs it up? Also remember according to DAN DCS accounts for 2% of all diving accidents. So an unproven hypothesis, multiplied by a wild guess, multiplied by a low starting probability suggests that the chance that this will help approaches nil.

Being well hydrated makes me feel less tired and reasonable amounts of water are known to be safe.

The same cannot be said for creatine and various other substances that may or may not reduce the risk of DCS, but do have known side effects.

Terry

Mr Carcharodon · November 8th, 2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Web Monkey

Being well hydrated makes me feel less tired and reasonable amounts of water are known to be safe.

The same cannot be said for creatine and various other substances that may or may not reduce the risk of DCS, but do have known side effects.

Terry

Being tired may be a sub-clinical indication of a bubble load, but still be far away from causing any lasting harm. Of course there could be any number of other things that cause fatigue. So saying fatigue is due to DCS is conjecture. I’d just ask if there is anything other than folklore that relates hydration to DCS. I suspect no one will be able to point to a study that shows a correlation. Which does not mean it does not exist. But the foundations may be far less firm than you imagine.

Reasonable amounts of water are safe? Reasonable amounts of many things are safe but not generally claimed to be preventive.