Dealing with the pigheaded

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ferretchen

Contributor
Messages
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Location
Flagstaff, AZ, USA
# of dives
200 - 499
I know that this is like tossing a torch into oily rags, but here goes...

I found this paragraph in an superb essay on technical diving:

"There is no room for a cavalier attitude. There is no time for bull****. And technical diving is no place for people trying to prove their manhood. If you recognize these traits in your attitude, take up golf and stay the hell away from technical diving." (Accident Analysis Doppler's Tech Diving Blog)

I categorically agree with the author. BUT - and you knew that "but" was coming - it reminds me of a kind of intolerance I see frequently in diving and other communities where dangerous situations are encountered. People understandably want to stick dogmatically to the wisdom of lessons learned. In their zeal, they may re-enforce bad behavior in the very people likely to make bad decisions. Note that the author goes on to state that there should be "No dogma; No absolutes; Only an open mind." So I know his heart is in the right place. Maybe he doesn't need to hear my complaint. But a lot of people in diving should read on.

Absolutist, intolerant statements are likely to make people with the "wrong" attitudes either hide those attitudes or dive unsafely on their own when nobody is looking, thus subjecting themselves and possibly others to danger and distress.

When you dress someone down, it may be satisfying to you; it may re-enforce your primacy in the hierarchy of diving education, and it may allow you to reassure yourself of your own safety, but it will not increase the probability of most stubborn, macho guys learning from the encounter.

Abusive rejection of a person's harmful attitude may not always be the best way to get someone to adopt a new outlook. Confrontation, particularly with macho individuals, tends to make them circle the emotional wagons and defend their viewpoint at all costs.

I think it's more successful to get under the person's skin with reason, and to lead by example. In this way, it might be possible for the person to admit to themselves that they have something to learn, without their ego being bruised.

I am asking instructors to be patient, to suffer fools to a certain extent, and to exhaust more diplomatic methods before venting their spleen in a display of righteous authority.

You can politely decline to dive with some macho fool, which may annoy him, but will leave him the emotional sea room to think twice the next time he has to make an important decision, because he's saved face.

I understand that when facing a fool, there is a temptation to dress down the person. Sometimes this is useful or effective. But most of the time, it will only create more conflict, and not solve the problem at hand - increasing the safety of the diver community.

When using abusive language with a student or fellow diver, think - are you saying things for his benefit, or for yours? Perhaps the macho fool is not the only one with something to prove.

I'm going to cover all possibilities and admit that there are people who only respond to authority - you can make the judgment call on what is required in a given situation. But I'm against "Dive shop attitude" unless necessary; I think it's over-used.

:popcorn:
 
Welcome to the human condition.

I think Steve's comment was addressing technical diving only, with the onslaught to get everyone "teched up". Some peope strongly believe that certain activities are not for everyone based on personality traights. I am one of them. As I have aged I have become more tollerant of everything, so as long as I am not being harmed by you, or asked to rescue or recover you, have a nice day. Also given Steve's accomplishments and position, When he talks you should listen, period.
Eric

If what he said offended you, you should talk with him. Maybe you will be the one to come away with more wisdom.
 
This isn't only applicable to diving; when dealing with unimaginative pig headed plumbers, I often have to lay it out for them without pissing them off (too much). After I show them, they usually say "oh yeah, ok" and quietly finish the rest of the job without arguing. I NEVER " dress them down," but then I have The Golden Rule (he who has the gold......)to rely on in a pinch.
 
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Tec diving attracts some serious alpha personalities. Alpha personalities express strong views. They often don't think too long before shouting. Don't worry about it.

But just remember - not everyone in the community is like that. You just notice the loud ones more.
 
You can count that anything Steve says is coming from experience. Arrogance in cave diving or deep wreck diving puts every member of a team at risk. Steve is very wise with his words and I would say listen to it. Those of us who do Techncal dves will drop a buddy with that attitude like a bad habit. My life isnt worth risking with someone whith a bad attitude or someone out to do a dive because they think it inflates their worth as a person.
 
If the OP thinks Steve is "dressing people down", it sounds like the OP missed the GI3 era. LOL

Over the years Steve seems to have taken the "kindler, gentler" approach to instruction and advice. However, getting older does tend to make one cut through the PC-BS and just tell it like it is.

This kind of reminds me of the Geico commercial with Gunny Sgt Ermey. "..and that's why yellow makes me sad, I think"

YouTube - R. Lee Ermey GEICO Commercial - Therapist Sarge
 
You can count that anything Steve says is coming from experience. Arrogance in cave diving or deep wreck diving puts every member of a team at risk. Steve is very wise with his words and I would say listen to it. Those of us who do Techncal dves will drop a buddy with that attitude like a bad habit. My life isnt worth risking with someone whith a bad attitude or someone out to do a dive because they think it inflates their worth as a person.

:thumb:

I side with Steve -- If an absolute about "No cavalier attitude, no bull**** in caves" isn't appropriate there -- then where?
 
... Note that the author goes on to state that there should be "No dogma; No absolutes; Only an open mind." So I know his heart is in the right place.

Thanks for that! :D

As Bob mentioned further down in the thread, as one gets older political correctness and diplomacy loose their lustre, and one finds oneself questioning the efficacy of subtle prodding.

As a student of human nature, and someone who has chosen to motivate people for a living, I agree that intolerance is not a great starting point for any form of training. However, I am sometimes faced with a dilemma: error of omission or error of commission... be quiet and watch someone hurt themselves or others, or speak out, be labeled a meddling old ass-hole, but maybe, just maybe get someone to think twice before saying to their buddy: "Hey, hold my beer and watch this..."
 
As a former rock & ice climber, my life depended on my partner, if for any reason I was not "happy", I did not make an issue of it, just never went out with that person again.
 
One of the reasons I'm drawn to technical diving is the pure, no-bullsh*t approach that's required to be successful. I value common sense a great deal (in an era where it seems to be increasingly uncommon), and diving at this level obviously requires an extremely logical, non-nonsensical approach to matters. I figure that the more mature and experienced instructors are (to misquote the author Terry Pratchett) obviously very good at not dying in a line of work where risks and life-and-death decisions are relatively routine. So if they have something to say about my diving, I'm going to damn well listen. Now, that doesn't mean I want my tech instructors to whip me while telling me to catch the next jack-wagon to namby-pamby land (well, not unless I deserve it, anyway, and hopefully, I never shall), but nor do I want them to blow sunshine up my jaxie, either. So far, I've been really lucky. My cave instructor is a modest, awesome bloke who praises what I do right, but has no problem asking me to deconstruct my dives and asking how I think I could have done it better. Doesn't get better than that.
 
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