Is this leak fast enough to worry about short term?

[davidbaraff]

I'm going on a trip (Catalina) on Thursday. I went to pick up my regulator today after having dropped it off 3 weeks ago. Did a pool test -- it was completely overhauled, so i wanted to check it out. It seemed perfectly fine to me.

The only thing I noticed as i was getting out was a very slight crackle and hiss where the first stage connects to the tank. I assumed it was the tank's O-ring, so i popped it i the water. i saw an extremely small bubble trail. I should have checked closer.

Got everything home, and hooked it up to my tank tonight, to test the IP. Surprise -- i hear a very slight hiss, put water on it -- crackle, crackle. Hooked it up to another of my tanks (my tanks have very new o-rings). it still crackes and hisses, right where the first stage connects to the tank. Before I took it in for service, this regulator was silent as the grave.

I clocked it just now -- i lost 40 lbs PSI in one hour.

So --- is this safe to dive on? Obviously, getting it straight back from service, i don't expect it to leak at all (and it never did before, which pisses me off). On a practical matter, i don't know if i can possibly get this straightened out in the next 48 hours, which is all I have left.


1. Can anyone guess what might be leaking, since it can't be the tank O-rings (three different tanks -- too coincidental).
2. How bad is a 40lbs /hour leak? (OK, i only dive for an hour at a time, i can do the obvious math... of course, that's 40lbs at the surface. will the leak be faster when i'm at 60 feet?)
3. The tag on the regulator says "12 hour pressure test." Does that mean hook it to a tank for 12 hours to make sure the pressure remains constant? if so, that's gotta be BS since i just watched 40lbs go in one hour...


Thanks for any feedback. I *hate* getting my stuff serviced. There always always always is some small glitch...

[Thalassamania]

What brand and model?

[davidbaraff]

XS-Scuba TriMetal.

[reefraff]

40 psi an hour isn't a major problem in and of itself, but...

This could be a damaged sealing surface on the face of the inlet but the most likely problem is that the inlet isn't correctly seated against the body of the regulator. This is a potentially serious problem that can result in a catastrophic failure and it should be corrected before you dive the unit again - if the inlet isn't properly tightened it can come loose, resulting in the kind of excitement that nobody wants to deal with. Heck, even if it's nothing more than a damaged/extruded/mis-seated o-ring, you can end up with a major leak in a hurry.

Whatever the problem ends up being, a leak test is SOP before any regulator leaves the repair bench. Your technician should have caught (and corrected) this before he gave it back to you.

[herman]

It's difficult to troubleshoot in cyberspace but you have to determine the exact place the bubbles are coming from. IF they are coming from the tank/reg interface it has to be one of 3 things and since you have eliminated a bad tank oring you are left with a bent yoke and/or yoke nut or a damaged yoke nut face. A scratch on the yoke face large enough to cause an audable hiss will be easy to see. A bent yoke or yoke nut is more difficult to see unless you are really looking. My guess is it's not the tank/reg interface but some other spot. A loose yoke nut or bad yoke nut oring is a more likely cause. In any case you need to determine the exact place the bubbles are exiting and have it repaired.

As for losing 40 psi in an hour, it depends on what you are measuring. If you are measuring IP or watching the SPG with the tank valve closed, that is not too bad....more than I would except (except for Sherwoods) but still not too bad, same goes for the SPG. On the other hand if the tank valve is open, yea that is way too much. This is one of the many reason so many of us are turning to doing our own service and a great example of why you never have a reg serviced before a big trip. Let us know what the problem ends up being.

[Colliam7]

I'm going on a trip (Catalina) on Thursday. I went to pick up my regulator today after having dropped it off 3 weeks ago. . . . The only thing I noticed as i was getting out was a very slight crackle and hiss where the first stage connects to the tank. . . . I clocked it just now -- i lost 40 lbs PSI in one hour.

40 psi an hour isn't a major problem in and of itself, but... This is a potentially serious problem that can result in a catastrophic failure and it should be corrected before you dive the unit again

I agree. The leak, now, isn't substantial enough to represent a problem with air supply. The implications of the leak, however, are significant.

While it may be inconvenient, take it back, TODAY. I don't know if the shop you took it to services gear themselves, or outsources the work (which may be why it took three weeks). But, you have a legitimate basis to go to the head of the line, and get immediate service. Simply tell them what you wrote here - you MUST have this reg ready to go by Thursday, the first stage is now leaking at the connection point, you put it on three different tanks to be sure it wasn't an O-ring issue, and you would appreciate having it fixed, today. Responsible shops will take care of the issue while you wait, or have it corrected in less than 24 hours if it has to go to another local site. This should not be a problem for them.

[Dive-aholic]

A small (40 psi/hr) leak can turn into a big leak in which you lose all of your air in a matter of a couple minutes instantly. You don't know where it's leaking from. You don't know why it's leaking. It needs to be fixed before you depend on it to sustain your life under water. All small leaks are just the beginning of big leaks.

[davidbaraff]

Thanks, guys. I'm planning on taking it back this morning, and if the tech there can't fix it by Wed, i'll see if another shop can do it.

I hooked the regulator up to my tank, and opened the valve, to hear the hiss. if the tank valve is closed, no hiss. When i say leaking 40PSI/hour, i mean with the valve open.

It does totally shock me that they returned it in this state -- if i caught it right away, why didn't they? (And i'm mad at myself for seeing it leaking in the pool, and assuming it was the tank's o-ring. i should just have hooked it up to another of their tanks, right away, or asked the person at the shop to look at it too. Their tech is off-site, local, but not right at the shop.)

OK, i've been warned. i won't dive this reg till the problem is fixed.

[davidbaraff]

One more question: my second stages were just overhauled, and are in fine condition. I'm on fairly good terms with some of the dive shops in Catalina. Is simply taking my two second stages, renting a regulator in Catalina, and having them take off their second stages for mine instead (along with my oceanic wireless transmitter, which just goes into an HP port) feasible?

That is, I know one can just detatch the hoses, and put on different second stages. but does that mean the pressure needs to be rebalanced again for that particular new first stage? or, as long as the first stage was putting out 135 IP (which it is, i measured it) that another first stage putting out the same IP should work ok with my second stages?

[awap]

Bent yokes and damaged sealing surfaces on the yoke retainer happen due to a handling error so this is almost surely something your shop caused. I would demand repair or replacement in about an hour. It is a 5 minute job if they have the parts and the parts can be removed from another regulator at the shop.

By the way, bent yokes occur when regulators are attached to tanks that fall over and land on the 1st stage. So take a close look at your 1st stage for any new scratches or dents. You may want more than just the yoke and or retainer replaced.

Edit: Those kinds of falls may not do the wireless transmitter and good either. Make sure that is OK. And yes, the shop could swap out your first stage as an easy fix.