Refresher dives...+AOW or Cavern; two weeks in N. FLA

[ic32987]

Hi guys,

I am taking a two week trip to N. Florida to see family, and I'd really love to advance my diving skillset. I currently live in MA, and it is difficult for me to make dives most times of the year. I'm also an avid rock climber (and caver when possible), and so cave/cavern diving has a true appeal. With that being said:

-I've only logged 10-ish dives in two years with my OW

-Never been diving in fresh water

My buoyancy clearly sucks. So how can I best utilize my trip?

1.) I could take a refresher, and then just dive the various OW appropriate spots...ignore the appeal of taking an advanced class at this point.

2.)Just do some shallow water dives (with experienced divers) to regain my "skills" and skip the refresher, and then take a class (AOW or cavern).

2.5.) And if a class does happen (and I will speak to instructors, as I have collected many names from these forums) -- will it be cavern or AOW?
I really like the idea of moving towards caves, working on buoyancy and learning various other skills that will be useful in all of diving. I can also take AOW up north here whenever, while cavern is not really an option. With that being said, despite my interest, I may have no place even approaching a cavern of cave at this point in my training and experience.


So please, throw out some ideas and help me choose a good path for my trip.

[halemanō]

Is there a cavern course that you would qualify to be enrolled in?

[Jim Lapenta]

I would not allow a student with 10 dives in 2 years to enroll in my AOW class. You'd never make it through successfully. Especially if your buoyancy and trim are not at least decent. I doubt any responsible cavern instructor would take you on as well.

[JahJahwarrior]

Interesting point Jim...are classes there to teach, or to test?

Clearly, in any class, scuba or otherwise, there are elements of both teaching and testing. But, we call it a class and not merely a test.

You indicate that you would not pass this student, but never mention doing anything to teach him. Granted, he might not be able to pass the test in the same time as others, but hopefully he would learn while diving with you and end up passing eventually.

I understand the thinking behind not allowing them to enroll. I understand the value behind time in the water. But, I think there has been a shift in diving, from a mentorship to a testing mentality. Of course, your time is valuable, and the OP might not be able to afford doing 30-60 dives with you over the course of a year or two in order to gain their AOW or cavern certification, but assuming they could, could that be an acceptable way to learn how to dive well, even though they couldn't pass the test at the first dive?




OP, with 10 dives you likely do not have the skills necessary to be an advanced diver or a cavern diver. My advice is, find someone who is a good diver, and go dive a lot. Dive with several people and learn from them all. Then, look for an AOW or cavern class, and realize that not all classes and teachers are equal. Some will give you a card even when your skills are possibly sub par.

There are plenty of OW sites in north florida, and it will give you a great first look into cavern diving, if you can chat with some cavern or cave divers, watch them in the water, etc. I credit the reason I was able to move quickly into cave diving from OW diving to the fact that I was trained to OW standards by cave divers, and spent my time in cave diving shops, with cave divers, and learned to dive like a cave diver. You have a disadvantage with so few dives and not living in the area, but that is something you can change with a little effort.

[Jim Lapenta]

My AOW is a pass or fail course. No one has ever failed it but that has a lot to do with my entrance requirements for it. I do not offer a taste or tour course. A student without somewhat decent buoyancy and trim skills would have a great deal of difficulty going through all the required skills and likely get frustrated. Which is why I do an in water eval if I have questions about their skills - at no charge to them. We can then either schedule a comprehensive refresher or non cert workshop to address the deficiencies before they can enroll.

All I require is the same level of skill my OW students have upon finishing their checkouts plus an additional 10 OW dives to get comfortable and reasonably proficient with them. I expect the new AOW student to be able to perform all basic skills (mask R&R, reg recovery, weight system R&R, and air share) hovering and in some semblance of good trim and not chage depth by more than 2 feet at the beginning of the first dive. By the end of the course it should not be more than half that. The dives are structured to work on buoyancy and trim while performing other tasks. They need to be able to do those so they can deploy the stage reg and shoot a bag during the second part of the dive following instruction in frog kicking, helicopter turns, and back kicks.

And yes testing is a big part of my classes. It has to be. I can't move on to the next skill without being reasonably sure that they have a foundation for it. I don't play the "you did kinda ok with that, we will come back to it later" game. Which is why I offer numerous non cert workshops as well as inviting students to come any time I'm diving where their training and experience is suited to the conditions. The purpose is to get them comfortable and not have them spend a fortune on classes where they are just going through the motions. My AOW class is too intense and has too many new skills they will learn to do that.

[TSandM]

It's good to hear that you want to improve your skills, and North Florida is a great place to find people to help you do that!

With the low experience you describe, I wouldn't attempt a cavern class, or even an AOW class. But I'd set up a couple of days of easy spring diving, and then see if you can book a day or two of "diving lessons" from someone who is cave trained. Don't put yourself under the pressure of a formal class . . . just have someone go out with you and help you with your buoyancy and trim and awareness. You'll have fun, the dives won't have a specific agenda that you or the instructor has to complete, and you'll end up with a glimpse of what further training will gain you.

I'm cave trained, and if you love caves and can get to Florida regularly, you WILL want to do that. But it takes more diving than you're currently doing, to do it well and safely.

[RTee]

OP…I have no idea what your schedule will be during the two weeks you will spend in NF. Perhaps you could combine a couple of your options together.

Factors that need to be considered with 10 dives or so during the past two years:

From a refresher perspective...When was the last time you dove ie less than six months, two months, etc, and how confident and proficient are you with the 20 basic tasks (from a PADI perspective)? You say your buoyancy s…. FYI, buoyancy concept is no different in fresh water as it is in salt water. It becomes just a matter of subtracting or adding weight depending on the specific environment and applicable thermal protection. Regrettably, you are not the only fairly inexperienced OW certified diver who suffer from that condition. In fact, it is quite prevalent. That is why agencies tend to cover that aspect either as part of a specific specialty(Mastering buoyancy) and /or have it included as one of the mandatory modules of AOW.

Number of dive requirements before attending AOW. Some instructors will request a minimum. Some agencies may also require a minimum. I have even seen some instructors requiring a minimum number of dives even though none is reflected in the prerequisites of their agency. I recall having a discussion on this very subject with a very experienced course director a couple years ago. While my position is to normally recommend practicing and improving/mastering recently acquired skills before proceeding to the more advanced ones, he presented another argument that had merit. What would benefit the most an inexperienced diver, diving with other inexperienced divers or even worst, self proclaimed experts who could teach bad habits or to progress to the next course ie AOW and then learn from a(hopefully) knowledgeable and proficient individual (instructor)? I thought he had a very good point.

Therefore, you should be able to assess if you do require a refresher. If you come to that conclusion, perhaps my advise would be to do one locally (LDS/pool) , then research LDS in NF that you could contact before going down to schedule some dives during your stay.

If scheduling dives proves to be difficult, then I would have no problem recommending attending an AOW course, keeping in mind that normally, you go through the theory and applicable chapters knowledge tests on your own and then do the review and applicable dives when you linkup. One way or the other, you should end up being a much better diver than you may actually be at the moment.

For your consideration.

[RonFrank]

With 10 dives in 2 years you need to dive. You may want to pay a DM to dive with you just to make sure things go ok, but at this point your priority is to get some diving skill. Forget the Cavern or even AOW, you need to get your basic skills down. Once you have basic buoyancy and diving skills under control, then AOW is your next move (next trip). I would do the classes through rescue as PADI suggests, then you can choose a path, but that is down the road. If you continue on your current 5 dives annually path, then enjoy diving when you do it, and don't worry about classes until you have more time.

Recognize that Maine is a good place to dive in the Summer. There are those that are diving 3-4 seasons in Maine. So you can dive where you live, but it's not blue water, sunny warm diving like FL/Caribbean.

Recognize that any instructor is going to push classes. It's what they do. So if you talk to an instructor you will likely end up taking a refresher followed by AOW!

[Insta-Gator]

Spend the first week diving with a mentor as often as possible. Second week, maybe the AOW. IMO, the AOW is a refinement of what is taught in OW. Your best bet is to dive a bunch more and forget about cavern/cave for some time.

[ic32987]

Thanks for all of the great feedback.

Ultimately I have decided to take a peak performance buoyancy class over two days early on in my trip, followed by traveling to Ginnie for a lot of "just diving."

The buoyancy course seemed to be a reasonable choice, and will be a private lesson. I think (hope) this will be a nice refresher for me, as well as providing some useful experience/technique for my future dive training. It is also pretty cheap (I think $150 with rental gear included).