Moving to Doubles

[BluewaterSail]

I would like to start diving doubles for the purpose of extending bottom time within normal recreational NDLs. For shallow reef dives now, I am always constrained by gas not time. I did one quick dive recently with doubles, just to see what it felt like, and I loved it!

In the future I will probably proceed to tech, but that is not the short term goal.

My question is what do I need to learn or practice in order to safely dive manifolded doubles in dives within normal rec limits.

I plan to learn how the manifold works, and practice proper valve drills. Also, I will get more serious about the tables and watching time, especially since I am trying to wean myself off of the computer and use a bottom timer instead. Please lets not make this a thread about computers though.

btw, I dive a bp/w, and have purchased a H 40lb Evolve wing, and extra first stage reg, and some crystalube so that I can rearrange my regs until I have a complete set just for doubles. I also recently purchased a primary light, but I don't think that's relevant to this discussion. My background is Rescue level and on the side I recently acheived a rec pass in Fundies, which was of course with singles.

 

[lowviz]

Since you are already headed in that direction, why not just go for the "nine failures"? 5thD-X releases new Technical Diving DVD - DIR Explorers

 

[JahJahwarrior]

You probably don't need cristolube to move hoses around, but it is handy to have around.

Know how the valves work!!!!! It's not rocket science but it can be deadly if you don't use the manifold right and don't think about where you do or don't have gas.

And enjoy, doubles are fun!

 

[DevonDiver]

Given current evolution in the tech scene - I'd recommend a cursory investigation of Sidemount diving options also. You can formally learn sidemount as a recreational diver, and then progress onto technical training (with many agencies) in that configuration.

It's far easier to dive recreational in sidemount config doubles, compared to back-mount, especially where tank availability is an issue (i.e. when travelling).

If certain about the desire to go back-mount, then the (as mentioned) 5thd-x videos are a great starting point. You can see clips from these on Youtube.

Core skills to be attained are: equipment set-up and options, valve manipulation and familiarity, shut-down procedures and drills, trim, buoyancy, propulsion, control and weighting.

I recommend appropriate supervision when first practicing/learning shut-down procedures - human error during those drills can lead to instant loss of gas.

After that, there's plenty of training available for non-tech doubles use. Plenty of tech instructors offer 'Intro-to-Doubles' type courses - these typically provide the 'equipment skills' aspect of tech training, without the deco/dive planning components of a full tech course - i.e. perfect for divers who want to dive back-mounted doubles within recreational limits.

That said - there's no harm in actually doing an entry-level tech course - as you'd gain superior understanding of many complimentary skills and procedures that would be useful tools in an otherwise recreational diving context - such as; gas management, emergency deco, precision buoyancy etc. You don't have to do technical dives, just because you did a technical diving course - you can use that training to simply make you a much more refined recreational diver...

 

[elan]

If I did the Fundies with a singe tank my next step would be to do the Fundies with a tech pass.

10 failures would be over the head at this point IMHO. First you have to nail down the valve drill including doing it in mid water while maintaining the team formation.

Before getting any tank do a research on what tanks are preferred by the teams in your area as well as finding which tank from all those will be good for you. Some tanks are shorter, some are longer and depending on your height and type of diving you do that can make trimming them difficult. I.e. I hate Worth HP100 in fresh water as they are very negatively buoyant and short.

 

[BluewaterSail]

Thanks to everyone for their advice. Good points made by all.

Lowviz - I will look into ordering those videos
JahJahWarrior - I'll be sure to study valves, and thanks for the advice on Cristolube.

After that, there's plenty of training available for non-tech doubles use. Plenty of tech instructors offer 'Intro-to-Doubles' type courses - these typically provide the 'equipment skills' aspect of tech training, without the deco/dive planning components of a full tech course - i.e. perfect for divers who want to dive back-mounted doubles within recreational limits.

That said - there's no harm in actually doing an entry-level tech course - as you'd gain superior understanding of many complimentary skills and procedures that would be useful tools in an otherwise recreational diving context - such as; gas management, emergency deco, precision buoyancy etc. You don't have to do technical dives, just because you did a technical diving course - you can use that training to simply make you a much more refined recreational diver...

Andy,

Right now, I would like to become competent with old fashioned doubles. Don't know what I will look into in the future. There's also the option of bringing along a slung stage bottle, but that also would have a more complex gas management routine, I would think, since it would be managing independent tanks.

Actually, concerning training, part of the reason for my question is to be able to wisely choose instruction, for whatever I decided that I needed instruction for. I had one instructor offer me an Intro to Tech course which did not even cover a valve drill..it seemed more like a guided dive while dressed up to look like a tech diver. Not my cup of tea. When I interview instructors, I want to go in with a "minimum course content" checklist. If I can't find a suitable course convenient to my schedule locally, then I will be able to define some private instruction. For this, I won't leave the country, and I don't want to wait months for the right course to come along.

 

[TSandM]

Ideally, you would dive with a partner or partners, and all of you would learn a protocol for dealing with manifold failures. But in fact, if you are doing recreational dives, you COULD simply use the strategy that any leak means end the dive, as you would with a single tank. Of course, a doubles setup has a lot more connections (and thus potential failure points) than a single tank rig, but it also has twice the gas.

If you are going to work on shutdowns, it is really important to work WITH someone who understands what you are doing, can easily donate gas, and can help fix things when you shut down all your gas. Because you will . . . I think we all have at one point or another!

BTW, I know JP Bresser recently taught a Fundies class in Israel, so there is somebody there diving that way . . . and possibly more classes being set up.

 

[BluewaterSail]

If I did the Fundies with a singe tank my next step would be to do the Fundies with a tech pass.

10 failures would be over the head at this point IMHO. First you have to nail down the valve drill including doing it in mid water while maintaining the team formation.

Before getting any tank do a research on what tanks are preferred by the teams in your area as well as finding which tank from all those will be good for you. Some tanks are shorter, some are longer and depending on your height and type of diving you do that can make trimming them difficult. I.e. I hate Worth HP100 in fresh water as they are very negatively buoyant and short.

I think that flying to another country to meet with a GUE instructor to get a tech pass, before doing a bunch of dives with doubles would be a waste of money. No?

My thought was that after I am comfortable with doubles, if I decide to proceed with GUE training, then I would do that.

Good thoughts on the choice of tanks. Thanks.

---------- Post added ----------

Ideally, you would dive with a partner or partners, and all of you would learn a protocol for dealing with manifold failures. But in fact, if you are doing recreational dives, you COULD simply use the strategy that any leak means end the dive, as you would with a single tank. Of course, a doubles setup has a lot more connections (and thus potential failure points) than a single tank rig, but it also has twice the gas.

If you are going to work on shutdowns, it is really important to work WITH someone who understands what you are doing, can easily donate gas, and can help fix things when you shut down all your gas. Because you will . . . I think we all have at one point or another!

BTW, I know JP Bresser recently taught a Fundies class in Israel, so there is somebody there diving that way . . . and possibly more classes being set up.

I was actually in JP's Fundies class last August. I was a long way from passing at the time, but that's another story. He does not come here regularly, his visit was only because the team that dived the Atlanta (I think that was the wreck) was invited here to speak, so he was already in the country, and his travel was already paid for by the sponsor of that event. And it was not easy getting enough people together for that class, or getting the approval of the authorities here (since GUE is not officially an agency here). Every few years, someone GUE comes by and teaches a course or two, but I am not going to hold my breath waiting for the next visit!

There are a few TDI and PADI tech instructors locally, and it is from them that I would get any instruction in the near future. In fact, the instructor (TDI) who I will probably go to, helped me practice the S-drills and ascents which let me finally past fundies (even though he is far from DIR himself). He was also with me for my "doubles tryout dive" which was really nice.

I am not able to dive regularly with any GUE instructors or divers. Thats just my reality.

 

[Colliam7]

If you are going to work on shutdowns, it is really important to work WITH someone who understands what you are doing, can easily donate gas, and can help fix things when you shut down all your gas. Because you will . . . I think we all have at one point or another!

Yes, and frequently much to the amusement of the instructor, or dive buddy, hovering nearby who has seen what was coming!

Right now, I would like to become competent with old fashioned doubles.

I am curious as to why - not disagreeing or challenging, just interested in your thinking. Sidemount is a great way to add gas to extend bottom time within NDLs.

 

[TSandM]

I don't imagine it's easy to travel from Israel to Egypt and back on a regular basis, which is a shame . . . because there IS a good GUE presence in Egypt.

Colliam makes a good point, though -- I would imagine that part of what you liked about diving the doubles was the stability in the water that having the mass, and having it spread across your back, gives you. (I love the way doubles DIVE, I just hate hauling them around on land -- case in point was putting on a set of 130s in Florida, and having them trim out sweeter than any other set of doubles I've dived!) I will tell you, though, that a properly set up sidemount rig is even nicer . . . not only do you have the stability of the inertia of the mass, but arranging it around your center of gravity means you don't have to spend time trying to balance an inherently top-heavy load, and one which, if you rotate around either your longitudinal or transverse axis, becomes progressively more unstable. In sidemount, you can go 45 degrees head-down and STAY there without sculling. You can lie on your side, and STAY there. It's an amazing degree of stability, and totally fun.

If you want to pursue GUE-style diving, then sidemount is out; but if you have no access to GUE divers or any kind of team, and just want a comfortable way to carry more gas, I'd seriously think about sidemount.