anyone want the truth and science on inwater recompression? It's incredibly effective

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nick.

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Read this please, because I see so many posts and people mention dive incidents/accidents/fatalities as if they are operating under a hogarthian framework of interpretation, regarding IWR.

The authors do a great job of presenting data that paints a very clear picture of what is or is not effective. Written by Richard Pyle and David Youngblood. iwr

This article has well over 500 total data points (cases where recompression attempts were made underwater). 2 fatalities, from a lost buddy team in rough seas. And over 90% of cases with tremendous success.

I won't tell you to do or not do inwater recompression. But I can tell you that I have a personal conversation with all dive staff wherever I may be working/guiding/teaching/fundiving, and I let them know exactly what I will be doing if I surface from a dive and my arm goes numb. I will drink water, grab a fresh tank.............................

The framework of legal liabilities, has unfortunately "poo-pooed" inwater recompression and marginalized it. When it is in fact, not theoretically, but practically, incredibly effective.

Now............ should a brand new diver do inwater recompression if they get bent? I don't know - depends on the diver. But IWR should not be interpretted by the diving public as "voodoo" for all divers - techical, recreational, or any others.

I would much rather prevent additional bubble formation, than wait 1-24 hours for "proper" treatment in a chamber - while those same bubbles only grow in size and do their worst. Let me see here......... I can spend another half hour in the water and there is perhaps a 90 percent chance of getting out of the water with no symptoms, or I can chance a run into shore while I might die in route? And in either case, the data seems to show that IWR reduces the total bubble formation when done immediately after a dive - which can only be good as the captain makes a call to ready the chamber. If I notice DCS hours or days after a dive, obviously I will go straight to a chamber, as I no longer have a practical variable of being in or on the water in a vessel, and the bubble formation is clearly slow enough that I don't need such a prompt reaction as to swap tanks in one minute, drink fluid for five seconds, and get back in the water.

As an aside, they even have a data set describing two divers suffering dcs after diving together - one got back in the water. Subsequently, he surfaced with no symptoms about an hour later when the boat returned. The other died in route to the chamber. It's kind of a no brainer, really. But you should obviously decide for yourself, and evaluate environmental conditions, because the lost buddy team from the data set, was diving in rough seas.

You still aren't convinced enough to open the link? Most of the recompression dives were not done according to a specific or established guideline of depth/time. They were winging it. They went down between 10-40 feet in most cases, and came back up when either temperature, hydration, boat logistics, weather, air remaining may have prompted them to end their recompression dive.

Read what the authors wrote, because they do a better job explaining it in detail. But really. Read the link.

This article may already exist, buried in the scubaboard archives, but it must be repeated because many of the "established" certification and safety organizations not only do not endorse IWR, but incidentally, marginalize IWR. The public is not readily told this information, and it is very enlightening.
 
It's always been possible to conduct in water decompression, just not recommended due to logistics, hypothermia etc. Read Deco for Divers my Mark Powell, he explains it pretty well. There are tables and such for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It's always been possible to conduct in water decompression, just not recommended due to logistics, hypothermia etc. Read Deco for Divers my Mark Powell, he explains it pretty well. There are tables and such for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I dont think the OP's point is in any way related to whether or not IWR is possible. Anyone that has taken a basic scuba cert class knows that it is "possible". I think its more about the negative conotation and overal internet messaging around IWR. There is an ongoing scenario on most of these mesage boards and forums where IWR is treated as an evil vodoo medicine that isnt to even be discussed at risk of sudden death (slight exageration).......and I think the OP's point was to contradict the overall common messaging around it.
 
If you've got a hot water suit, full face mask (or a band mask...or helmet), surface-supplied air, and a couple t-tanks of aviator's O2, go for it.

Short of that, it's a pretty stupid idea.

A better option would be to install hangbars, get some T-tanks of O2, then deploy a hangbar oxygen system. Require all divers to do their safety stop on pure O2 for 5 minutes. Have deco divers add 5 more minutes of 20 ft hang time.
 
Short of that, it's a pretty stupid idea.

A better option would be to install hangbars, get some T-tanks of O2, then deploy a hangbar oxygen system. Require all divers to do their safety stop on pure O2 for 5 minutes. Have deco divers add 5 more minutes of 20 ft hang time.



None of that is relevant. Extra precation is always a good idea - BUT - the decision still has to be made AFTER all of those precautions were taken and you have a bent diver on the boat. The debate about what to do at that point in time cannot be answered with MORE precaution...after the fact.


I dont want to sound rude - but these debates always seem to get sidetracked into OTHER things. The IWR debate should be a good one, assuming your choice is AFTER you realize that you have a bent diver, or you ARE A BENT diver...on the boat. At that point - you have to decide what the appropriate thing to do is. A lot has to come into play. Neuro VS no Neuro symptoms, time to port, access to chamber, access to safety diver, etc. I DO NOT know, nor pretend to know what is right in any or every situation - but - it is a very interesting debate. One that I could argue both sides of, and one that I have no idea which is correct.

Honestly, I would say that 95+% of the time, the answer is to get to a chamber. That being said - I cannot deny that IWR probably has some sort of place in the world.
 
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If you've got a hot water suit, full face mask (or a band mask...or helmet), surface-supplied air, and a couple t-tanks of aviator's O2, go for it.

Short of that, it's a pretty stupid idea.
Hold on there bucky, I don't believe you have the experience to comment so definitively on this.

There are difficult and challenging logistics, certainly, but when you are faced with a really long evac or an immediate re-immersion where you can treat root causality and not just already damaged tissue, it's worth considering carefully. Unfortunately there is no training available, just some papers and tribal apocrypha.

73 de K0IW
 
Hold on there bucky, I don't believe you have the experience to comment so definitively on this.

There are difficult and challenging logistics, certainly, but when you are faced with a really long evac or an immediate re-immersion where you can treat root causality and not just already damaged tissue, it's worth considering carefully. Unfortunately there is no training available, just some papers and tribal apocrypha.

73 de K0IW

I'm merely parroting what DAN's own Dr. Nick Bird said at "Our World Underwater". You're Bent and You're Where?" was a fantastic presentation. He talked for about 20-30 minutes about IWR and the rare margin where it is a good idea.

It's a rare margin, but the equipment listed is what is called for to attempt IWR. The astronauts of the Apollo 13 mission didn't train to adapt a CO2 scrubber out of duct tape either. However, when you need to save someone from near permanent neurological damage, then you gotta do what you gotta do.
 
So do you have this fresh tank of whatever sitting waiting on the boat or are you surfacing then with your one good arm finding a tank of whatever while you are bubbling away on the surface attaching gear and regulator before you jump back in for your IWR?
Do you carry multiple gases so you can do some O2 recompression before you surface too?
I would suggest if you had the logistics available to do an effective IWR you likely had the logistics available to do an effective deco which would have negated the need for IWR. If you are just throwing everything together as the numbness in your arm slowly migrates to whatever good luck.
I am not doubting the effectiveness of IWR I am just doubting the ability of some diver who suddenly realizes he needs it to pull it off.
 
So do you have this fresh tank of whatever sitting waiting on the boat or are you surfacing then with your one good arm finding a tank of whatever while you are bubbling away on the surface attaching gear and regulator before you jump back in for your IWR?
Do you carry multiple gases so you can do some O2 recompression before you surface too?
I would suggest if you had the logistics available to do an effective IWR you likely had the logistics available to do an effective deco which would have negated the need for IWR. If you are just throwing everything together as the numbness in your arm slowly migrates to whatever good luck.
I am not doubting the effectiveness of IWR I am just doubting the ability of some diver who suddenly realizes he needs it to pull it off.



Would you assume he is alone...one the boat - and no one to help, or get the gear together for him.

Also - on my boat, and any boat I have ever dove, we have extra tanks of O2 at all times - so I would say it is a reasonable assumption that if someone is doing a dive in which IWR is a possibility- than, they are likely prepared with what would be needed......simply by planning for the dive itself. Or - perhaps, my group brings extra tanks and we need to find a way to scale back (which is also true)
 
Nick, your interpretation of the article seems skewed and tends to over-look a number of facts clearly presented in that article.

Some selective quotes:

"It should also be clear that identifying those circumstances under which IWR should be implemented is an exceedingly difficult task. A wide variety of variables must be taken into account, and many factors must be carefully considered. Although the decision to perform IWR should be made quickly, it should not be made in haste."

In respect to sports divers (whether rec or tec), there is little-no education available on how to (1) perform appropriate IWR and (2) how to evaluate the appropriateness of IWR. "Grabbing a tank and jumping back in..." is an attitude directly opposing the message of this article.

For recreational divers, with no education in the use of hyperbaric O2, it probably is "voodoo". Voodoo being a slang term for: "technical requirements beyond the knowledge horizon of the individual".

Given how little is known about the precise mechanics of DCS, I'd go so far as to say it is "voodoo"...even for the leading experts in the field. As for recreational divers... most could make a better stab at explaining quantum physics theory than explain bubble mechanics...

"All three of these methods share the requirement of large quantities of oxygen delivered to the diver via a full face mask at 30 feet (9 meters) for extended periods,.."

The application of IWR discussed in the article involved 100% O2 treatment, with the safeguard of a full-face mask for extended periods. How many recreational diving boats have that capability provision?

Because... you can't simply "swap tanks" and jump back in...

"...all of the cases for which IWR left the divers in worse shape than when they began, involved air as the only breathing mixture. Furthermore, the diver in case #8 did not improve after air-only IWR, and may have exacerbated his condition during his failed attempts."

100% failure rate using air for recompression seems to be a quite compelling deterrent...

"The extent and severity of the DCS symptoms are also important factors. Whether or not mild DCS symptoms (i.e. pain-only) should be treated is not certain. One perspective is that such symptoms are not likely to leave the diver permanently disabled, and thus the risks associated with attempted IWR would not be worth taking. Furthermore, individuals with such symptoms are prime candidates for "making a bad situation worse"

...which pretty much rules out the vast majority of DCS incidents concerning recreational divers...

The article is firmly and clearly orientated towards technical divers, NOT recreational divers. It clearly states the need for extensive logistics and technical knowledge - both at levels beyond that provided by any sports diving course, or encountered as a norm on a specialized technical diving vessel.

It also clearly states parameters for treatment - defining IWR treatment as potentially beneficial only within very strict boundaries of diagnosis (i.e. type 2/3 DCS where degradation of consciousness is not evident)... whilst clarifying categorically that it would be an option only where appropriate 'dry' hyperbaric treatment is not feasible within a timescale to prevent severe permanent disability or death (i.e. very remote locations where evacuation is not possible).

It is also important to note that this article "In-water Recompression as an Emergency Field Treatment of Decompression Illness" was published in 1995. It is an OLD article - understanding of DCI and treatment has increased in the last 18 years. So has the nature of technical diving. Pyle wrote a subsequent article in 1999: "Applications of Technical Diving Practices for IWR", in which he introduces his own IWR table. That article covers 'new' concepts, such as rebreather and helium use... and how they effect IWR considerations.. It still refers to nitrox as a "technical diving gas"... think how times have changed...

Pyle's later article raises further considerations. Not least the impact of helium on DCS "may have direct or indirect consequence on performing IWR in several different ways"... or the 'increasingly common tendency' (remember...1999) of technical divers to use oxygen for decompression; which further complicates IWR because the victim has already..."been exposed to a much larger cumulative “dose” of oxygen, thereby possibly enhancing susceptibility to oxygen induced convulsion should IWR be subsequently attempted."
In short, there is some consensus about IWR... both from Pyle/Youngblood... DAN and other bodies; such as the US Navy and Royal Australian Navy School of Underwater Medicine. That consensus includes the following:

1. IWR would only be suitable for an organised and disciplined group of divers with suitable equipment and practical training in the procedure.

2. IWR, if attempted, requires substantial logistics support, pre-planning and the availability of expert medical and diving personnel.

3. IWR has substantial risks and consideration of its use is only merited in extreme cases of DCS, where formal recompression treatment is not available in time to prevent immediate occurrence of serious injury or death.

4. IWR should not be dismissed as a concept and merits further study. No bodies however advocate its use unilaterally.

It is also important to note that Pyle's studies deal with the mechanics of decompression without regard for medical issues now better understood. For instance, the role of immuno-response to initial bubble formation - which indicates necessary medical/drug treatment to prevent equally life-threatening complications from occurring (even if IWR were successful for treating bubble formation). i.e. IWR alone might remove the bubbles, but not the clots that occur around the bubbles... which then kills you.

But I can tell you that I have a personal conversation with all dive staff wherever I may be working/guiding/teaching/fundiving, and I let them know exactly what I will be doing if I surface from a dive and my arm goes numb. I will drink water, grab a fresh tank.............................

Exactly why IWR should be 'off the table' for 99% of divers. A little knowledge can be more dangerous than no knowledge....


---------- Post added February 27th, 2013 at 10:46 AM ----------

... on my boat, and any boat I have ever dove, we have extra tanks of O2 at all times - so I would say it is a reasonable assumption that if someone is doing a dive in which IWR is a possibility- than, they are likely prepared with what would be needed......simply by planning for the dive itself. Or - perhaps, my group brings extra tanks and we need to find a way to scale back (which is also true)

Pretty hard to do IWR with a DAN O2 kit. LMAO

Let's be specific:

1. An adequate supply/volume of O2 that can be breathed at depth for extended periods.
2. An adequate supply/volume of air and/or nitrox, to permit air-breaks and/or deeper depths (dependent on IWR table/s used).
3. A Full-face mask, indicated in the article as essential to off-set high risk of seizure.
4. Support personnel able to accurately diagnose and catagorize DCS, subsequently medically supporting the victim in water.

Some dedicated technical diving boats may be able to meet those requirements. Few, if any, recreational dive boats could.

In 22 years of diving, I've seen one vessel/crew that could almost do it properly. Surface supplied (umbilical) O2 to a deco bar, trained dive medics/hyperbaric technicians on every trip. That team debated equipping with full-face masks (the remaining necessity for IWR). It was a serious topic, because they operated in remote (min 48+ hours from shore/chamber) locations and undertook aggressive technical dives. Serious DCI had occurred on that boat before (and did whilst I was diving from it). They'd also suffered an ox-tox fatality before. After much educated debate, even that team opted against IWR.

In short, if the risk demands serious consideration of IWR provision.... equip with a portable chamber.
 

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