Death v # of Divers and Scuba Oversight

[drrich2]

Usually it's a bit more "Yeah... Bob... you can tag along with Joe and Mary or follow the DM if you like."

If something goes wrong, not hard to imagine that the DM thinks Bob is with Joe and Mary. Joe and Mary thinks Bob is with the DM.

It also seems to me that actual diver practice in aquarium-like excellent conditions (e.g.: great viz., minimal current) often doesn't entail the side-by-side, glance at each other every several seconds/closely monitor your buddy type of practice that is sometimes held up as more ideal.

Instead, both buddies may follow the group, fairly close to each other, and if you need me, swim over & nudge me. Occasionally look over to see your buddy's still fairly close. Which in some conditions may be adequate if the buddy gets low on air or has some gear malfunction.

Frequently looking over in case your buddy's having a heart attack, seizure, been grabbed by a big shark, etc..., no.

Other threads have made obvious that people vary widely in their perceptions of appropriate buddy expectations (and some may even think their view ought to obviously be right to others, who don't always see it that way).

Richard.

 

[KathyV]

interesting! Good example,some blogger not having appropiate facts, running at the mouth!! So someone else has to do damage control!! I would like To see statics on the Cayman fatalities (ie... Experience, medical issues, equipment issues). Cayman has a great safety record based on the number of divers per year, what is happening?

It sounds like a lot of deaths but the total number of fatalities doesn't mean much without knowing the approximate number of dives that took place during the time period, and the percentage of deaths as compared to other popular dive destinations, and the rate of fatalities by age group.

 

[webedivin2000]

I totally agree the number of deaths vs. the number of divers per year statically Is very low! I would like so see all the stats on all the victims and the listed cause of death!!
Is the industry experiencing older divers with medical issues, equipment problems or are the training agencies beginning to fail with one day wonder programs and instant gratification issues!
All valuable industry information! However I would like to say any fatality always leaves a blemish for the entire dive industry! We all strive for safety!

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Dan Reports - latest I could find - http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/report/DAN2000DCIreport.pdf

Happy Reading...

 

[Abdullah]

It sounds like a lot of deaths but the total number of fatalities doesn't mean much without knowing the approximate number of dives that took place during the time period, and the percentage of deaths as compared to other popular dive destinations, and the rate of fatalities by age group.

Rationalizing fatalities as inevitable as long as the percentage is 'reasonable' is a fairly archaic view of safety. There isn't a statistically acceptable number of fatalities, unless that number is zero. If it sounds like there are a lot of deaths, it also sounds like there are a lot of unsafe practices, they go hand in hand. I would want to be especially picky choosing a dive op in that kind of environment.

 

[KathyV]

Rationalizing fatalities as inevitable as long as the percentage is 'reasonable' is a fairly archaic view of safety. There isn't a statistically acceptable number of fatalities, unless that number is zero. If it sounds like there are a lot of deaths, it also sounds like there are a lot of unsafe practices, they go hand in hand. I would want to be especially picky choosing a dive op in that kind of environment.

I did not rationalize deaths and my thinking is not archaic. My point was that before we start making unfounded assumptions about any dive location or demographic group of divers, we should look at comparative data so we know what we are talking about. No death is insignificant but understanding the data is the first step in ensuring quality and safety.

 

[drrich2]

There isn't a statistically acceptable number of fatalities, unless that number is zero.

That's not realistic. Human beings all die eventually, often rather unpredictably as to just when.

Be careful of the mindset that no fatality is acceptable. It leads to a culture that every time someone dies, there must be more burdensome regulation or someone condemned/punished, because after all, nobody should die! If someone does, something 'wrong' must have been done!

Richard.

 

[Ayisha]

...Be careful of the mindset that no fatality is acceptable. It leads to a culture that every time someone dies, there must be more burdensome regulation or someone condemned/punished, because after all, nobody should die! If someone does, something 'wrong' must have been done!

Richard.

Welcome to OSHA in the US and OHSA in Canada. No accident is considered acceptable. Any fatality in a workplace (charter boat, etc.) will be investigated and analyzed, and a root cause determined, and maybe some rules to try and prevent similar accidents in the future...

 

[drrich2]

Ayisha:

Yeah, that's the mindset I'm talking about. Something happens (& eventually, in an imperfect world, something always will), that's not practical to prevent, but we've got to create a 'solution' that won't work to prevent further incidents that will always occur in some form anyway.

Learning from experience & making practical improvements is legitimate & desirable. But bureaucrats & regulatory types can seriously ruin a good thing.

Richard.

 

[KathyV]

I am not opposed to studying near misses and accidents to learn how to try and prevent them from happening in the future, I think that is a very good idea. But I don't like pointing fingers and making assumptions without facts or data.