Self Reliant Diving Required?

[mick allein III]

I am an SDI certified solo diver, but I prefer to dive as a team with friends. Since my solo training, I always dive redundant. I feel more comfortable knowing that I have what I need to take care of myself. I feel like I am a better diver.

Why is buddy diving the rule or rather nonredundancy the rule? Wouldn't it make sense for all divers to be trained and equipped for self rescue. Even if they were part of a team/pair?




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[scubadude223]

I am SDI Solo Certified as well.

I only trust myself

My Gear is in DIR Style

Remember you are there for you buddy, but, you are the most important.

---------- Post added May 3rd, 2015 at 06:32 PM ----------

PADI Will not teach it.

The reason they don't want self reliance is because they think that it will encourage People to dive alone

The Equipment is four times more expensive than basic open water gear.

PADI is there to make money, a new diver can't handle a Stage Bottle and such

 

[mick allein III]

Respectfully, the gear is not 4x expensive and handling a stage bottle can be taught. Self reliant divers would require better and longer training.


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[Vavylon]

I think it would be the safer option, but IMO it is too much gear for most people to be comfortable with just starting out. You are tacking on an extra $600 in equipment upgrades (assuming another tank, first stage, primary second, bands/mani/wing or SM rig, dsmb/drysuit, etc) to become redundant. With all that, a $600 estimate is a bargain price to pay along with the standard "buddy pair" gear requirements (standard BC, tank, regs, etc).

Can brand new divers be trained with doubles and to dive fully redundant, sure they can. Follow an OW class doing a checkout dive and see how many are being trained that way though. I would bet few, if any are. That level of training would almost be more of a mentorship than a certification style training.

Being a redundant diver, think back to how long it took you to achieve a redundant status in terms of gear, training, and experience enough to be proficient. Now try and roll all that into a class and pitch it to someone who has never taken a breath underwater and try to justify the new cost, time, and gear requirements. I have only anecdotal evidence to back this up but of the 6 people I know (who i met outside of diving) that dive, only 2 of them ever dive more than a few times a decade. Solo-style teaching would be a tough sell to what I will, for the purpose of this point, call a majority of divers.

Really I am not trying to bash your point, I think it would be an ideal solution save for the extra investment.

P.s. I am totally picturing in my head a group of OWDivers on a checkout dive with the DM ripping off their masks and shutting down tanks while they are trying to deploy a DSMB. Their tears would saturate the ocean.

 

[scubadude223]

Four times may be a bit much. The point I was trying to say was that It can be expensive to set yourself up with a backplate and Wing. Stage Bottle Setup
Drysuit. Canister Light. Redundant Mask. Custom first and second stage setup.

Diving Solo, you MUST have the very best equipment. In my opinion.

Atleast $1000.00 on a First and Second Stage
High Quality Drysuit
Stage Bottle Setup AL 40 with a First and Second Stage
Second Mask
Backplate and Wing
Redundant Light
Redundant Knife
Lighting System and a Backup Light $1400

The List Continues

SDI Has a specific list they require to meet.

This is to do it properly. It is a tall order when you just need a rental BC and Regulator Setup

 

[NAM001]

Most new divers cant walk and look at a tank let alone wear doubles and operate them. They are taught to be reliant on the other diver. It is the premis of the training. New divers have to operate at the simplest levels till they gain experience on their own to move on. I know that this may not sit well with some instructors but let my stroke you first. Any instructor that is bothered by this is most likely really teaching their students something beyond mask clearing and share air in 30' water or less to get their OW card.

---------- Post added May 3rd, 2015 at 09:24 PM ----------

you don't need a bp/w to be solo nor doubles. get a pony and you are set. extra mask and a dmb with reel.

Four times may be a bit much. The point I was trying to say was that It can be expensive to set yourself up with a backplate and Wing. Stage Bottle Setup
Drysuit. Canister Light. Redundant Mask. Custom first and second stage setup.

Diving Solo, you MUST have the very best equipment. In my opinion.

Atleast $1000.00 on a First and Second Stage
High Quality Drysuit
Stage Bottle Setup AL 40 with a First and Second Stage
Second Mask
Backplate and Wing
Redundant Light
Redundant Knife
Lighting System and a Backup Light $1400

The List Continues

SDI Has a specific list they require to meet.

This is to do it properly. It is a tall order when you just need a rental BC and Regulator Setup

 

[mick allein III]

Your points are well taken. Most divers are very recreational. But redundancy doesn't have to be so complicated nor expensive. You can sling a 40/30/ or even 19. It's not that hard or expensive. New divers wouldn't have to do doubles. You can rig a 40 on a standard bc no problem.


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[TMHeimer]

I am an SDI certified solo diver, but I prefer to dive as a team with friends. Since my solo training, I always dive redundant. I feel more comfortable knowing that I have what I need to take care of myself. I feel like I am a better diver.

Why is buddy diving the rule or rather nonredundancy the rule? Wouldn't it make sense for all divers to be trained and equipped for self rescue.


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Good point. But it would also be good if OW training included all the way through Rescue Course, like I've been told it used to decades ago. That would cost a lot more to take. From what I've read in my old OW manual and what I've observed assisting classes, only buddy diving is described. And, of course, the safety advantages that go with it. There are too many threads on buddy vs. solo. This is safer, that is safer. I might get a bad buddy, I rely only on myself, etc. But that's the way it is.

 

[Vavylon]

I see, I do not think I had seriously considered just slinging a smaller sized bottle. That would definitely work, at least, for redundant air.

Another point I wanted to make but forgot to in my previous post is the problem that arises when "recreational" divers have such additional air. Now this may be a bit outside the scope of the discussion because it assumes that a rec diver with a pony will misuse it, but I will say it anyway as food for thought: recreational divers may be tempted to use their extra 4-11liters of air to get into some deco or deep trouble. I do not recall the exact logic or wording, but a short time ago a very salty old diver was telling me the story of why a standard bottle holds 11L. He explained, through some magic of numbers that went over my head, that the size of an 11L tank filled with air is generally too small to either be volume-effective at a depth great enough to pass NDLs. Whether or not his story is true is only partially relevant to my point that new divers with potentially twice as much air could more fesibly find themselves past NDLs if they were to use their tank as part of their gas supply.

I do not think it would be too far fetched to envision a diver justifying to themselves the use of an extra bottle and reg set that they schlepped around and paid for, despite their instructions saying it was for emergencies only. Again this all assumes a diver will misuse gear, which isn't necessarily a fair assumption. I am sure that currently quite a few divers utilize a pony for emergency redundancy, but I am not sure it would work so well for the general diving population. Remember that the general diving population has not taken it upon themselves to learn the intricacies of decompression theory, practice, or even remember from their classes why we have depth certifications beyond the "tank don't last as long when you are really deep" answer.

 

[gcarter]

Four times may be a bit much. The point I was trying to say was that It can be expensive to set yourself up with a backplate and Wing. Stage Bottle Setup
Drysuit. Canister Light. Redundant Mask. Custom first and second stage setup.

Diving Solo, you MUST have the very best equipment. In my opinion.

Atleast $1000.00 on a First and Second Stage
High Quality Drysuit
Stage Bottle Setup AL 40 with a First and Second Stage
Second Mask
Backplate and Wing
Redundant Light
Redundant Knife
Lighting System and a Backup Light $1400

The List Continues

SDI Has a specific list they require to meet.

This is to do it properly. It is a tall order when you just need a rental BC and Regulator Setup

You don't need to spend that much on a 1st and 2nd.

You don't necessarily need a dry suit.

You don't necessarily need any lights.

You don't necessarily need a BP/W.

Solo is only one aspect of describing the type of diving you will do, and the dive will dictate the required equipment, not a one-size-fits-all list.