Canadian Tourist Killed in Honduras

[rpowers]

Article (http://montreal.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=qc-murder20050607)

[abitton]

How very sad...
Thet were in a bus heading to La Ceiba to dive...



Honduran thieves kill Canadian student
Last Updated Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:45:24 EDT
CBC News
A university student from Quebec's Magdalen Islands was killed Sunday as he tried to protect a friend from robbers during a trip to Honduras.

Jocelyn Masse and his friend, Mélanie Poirier, had travelled to the Central American country for a diving holiday.

They were passengers on a bus that was boarded by robbers.

Masse, a student at Laval University in Quebec City, was killed when he tried to protect Poirier from being attacked by the thieves, reports say.

Poirier is expected to return to Canada Wednesday.

[H2Andy]

that's awful news... simply terrible... imagine going on holiday and being killed
by robbers... sigh...

i've moved this here from the Accidents and Incidents, as it is not a diving or
free diving accident.

also, it belongs in Central America, but pending creation of that forum... i placed it here

[StSomewhere]

How very sad...
Thet were in a bus heading to La Ceiba to dive...
Is La Ceiba on the Honduran mainland? Where is that from Utila or Roatan?

[hopefulist]

La Ceiba is the "jumping off place" on the mainland of Honduras for planes and ferries to Utila and Roatan.

[drbill]

When I worked on a cruise ship in Belizean and Honduran waters, we were warned about walking around the port town (Puerto Cortez) in Honduras alone and told to go in groups. Of course the same could be said for some areas in the large cities in the States!

[RoatanMan]

Is La Ceiba on the Honduran mainland? Where is that from Utila or Roatan?

Herein lies the inherent danger of posting this arguably useful information- then having it moved by a well meaning Mod to a forum where it will cause nothing but ill founded concern.

Utila and Roatan are part of the Bay Islands which lie 30 miles North of the mainland of Honduras. 95% of the divers who visit the Bay Islands land there directly from their US Gateway cities of Houston or Miami, or fly through the transit lounge in the airport at Belize City. There are now direct flights from Canada, as well.

How one might be "boarding a bus to La Ceiba enroute to dive"... well, that's a route that is less than well travelled by divers. Rather unusual itinnerary, at best.

There is little concern of any personal crime to the Bay Islands unless one goes looking for it.

When one travels outside their normal sphere of understanding, it might be wise to seek counsel in regards to potential for such occurances as well as correct methods for reaction. If we were to take these news reports at face value- a bus being boarded and a robbery in progress, we can not second guess the actions of these unfortunate souls.

Best advice? Compliance with no threatening movements.

Best prevention? Secrete your real documents and majority of money on your person under your clothing, having a "drop wallet" that contains a lot of singles, some outdated credit cards, and good laminated color xeroxes of ID's. Be ready to hand it over. Wear only jewelry that you are preopared to lose. (Whoopee, I'm single for a week!) An expired passport is also handy.

If you are capable of defending yourself, I would consider it only as a last resort where you were about to sustain greivous, life threatening physical injury. Maybe you can transport a knife in your checked bags, but are you good enough to use it in such a capacity? Probably not. Then, add into the equation that these guys were raised with knives in their hands, nevetr mind the pistolas.

All in all, not much to concern yourselves with, at least not on the streets of the Bay islands, pretty much so Mayberry RFD by comparison. On the mainland however(outside of the airports) including La Ceiba, Belize City, Tegus and others... stay in the airport, Sparky.

[rockbeauty]

It's a very sad story. I feel really touch, maybe because the student killed was from Quebec...
RoatanMan, I know most people fly directly to the islands but I wouldn't say that it's an unusual itinary...maybe from the Roatan crowd (I know, I don't like to generalize either) but almost everybody I dove with (and I met a lot of people) in Utila/Jewel caye were taking the boat and bus back to either SAP or another city they were flying from.
It could be bad publicity for Honduras but we all know that wherever you go in central america, in Asia, even in many big US cities or in your hometown, there could be some danger...it just make it look more real when you heard a story like that.
I am still going to go diving in Utila and Roatan in july, I might just take the boat and the plane from La Ceiba to SAP instead of the bus! No more beautiful bus rides through the mountains...at least until next year...
See you there H2Andy!

[peterbj7]

Whilst the Bay Islands may well be perfectly safe - I don't know, I've never been there - there are undeniably some amazing atrocities occasionally in mainland Honduras. I'm all for publicising such events so people who choose to go there do so with their eyes open. I deplore attempts to hush them up, such as has been done officially in Belize (by Government, Police and Tourist authorities).

[lsudive]

There is crime everywhere. People get killed, and it is always terrible. Hopefully, the result of this story will be that people will be more careful and more aware of their surroundings, but not afraid to travel outside their own backyards. This story and that of Natalee in Aruba, while heartbreaking, are not much different than stories that happen in the States every day.

We flew into SPS and La Ceiba last week. Stayed in the airports. It does seem odd that they were taking a bus to La Ceiba rather than a flight, but who can tell what the circumstances were. It's a pity that it happened, though. And the poor girl he was trying to save . . .

[NWGratefulDiver]

It does seem odd that they were taking a bus to La Ceiba rather than a flight, but who can tell what the circumstances were. It's a pity that it happened, though. And the poor girl he was trying to save . . .

Not really ... when I travel I will opt for a bus or train (in places like China, Taiwan, and Indonesia) in order to get a better feel for what the place is really like. Sure, it presents some additional risks ... but if some of us are willing to accept that for the experience.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[H2Andy]

Best advice? Compliance with no threatening movements.


it sounds like the young man responded when the robbers assaulted his
female friend (perhaps girlfriend):

Masse, a student at Laval University in Quebec City, was killed when he tried to protect [Melanie] Poirier from being attacked by the thieves, reports say.

there's a lot here we don't know yet. apparently, a police officer died at the scene:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras -- A Canadian man has died after an attack on a bus on which he was riding, police said Tuesday.

Police spokesman Gustavo Farjardo identified the man as Jocelyn Masse, 21, of Isles-de-la-Madeleine, Que. He was travelling with Melanie Poirier, also of Isles-de-la-Madeleine, from San Pedro Sula to La Ceiba in northwest Honduras when robbers attacked the bus on Saturday.

Masse was shot at point-blank range.

A police officer died at the scene while Masse died Monday in a hospital in San Pedro Sula, about 180 kilometres northwest of the capital, Tegucigalpa.

http://www.canada.com/search/story.html?id=048fbe70-bbac-4def-9425-cb89ce7fb8a0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[RoatanMan]

Not really ... when I travel I will opt for a bus or train (in places like China, Taiwan, and Indonesia) in order to get a better feel for what the place is really like. Sure, it presents some additional risks ... but if some of us are willing to accept that for the experience.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

What I meant by that was: They were taking a bus to La Ceiba to (board a plane to) go diving...from where???

From the story, it must be assumed that they were on a non-SCUBA jaunt around the mainland, and I don't think any of the articles (Without lending a note of factuality or credence to any news source account) mentioned where the incident occurred. One may fly from the North into LaCeiba, but getting there by bus means you were out in the sticks sightseeing.

My days of side trips in Central America are over. I have had that adventure during the 70's and 80's. I fly down to dive in my doddering years.

The exposures are indeed real, as other posters have mentioned. There are some pretty much unavaoidable locales that you have to deal with as you "gateway" to SCUBA backrolls...

This list may run the gamut from "be watchful" or "be aware of certain neighborhoods and times of day" to "take an armed escort". In this South/Central America forum & the Caribbean the "gateway city" list might include:

Trinidad (not Tobago)
Caracas (not Los Roques)
Quito (not Galapagos)
Belice City (not the atolls)
Nassau (not the outer islands)
Honduras (not the Bay Islands)

Once again, lest anyone be ruffled, not all of the above are equal, nor is your mere appearance in these cities any guarantee that you will be violated. Just as in the US or and (so called) civilized place, maybe even Canada, you can really get into some deep puppy-poop in the bat of an eye. Try not to bat your eye!

Tourists (and in this case, lower economic class bus riders) make most excellent targets of opportunity. They come neatly packed into a handy container; your criminal activity is well obscured by normal goings-on within and around the bus; your victims are seated tightly and unable to access weapons or position themselves for resistance without being obvious; your targets are unarmed because of their socio-economic or non-citizen status; the targets are likely transporting merchandise or cash because they have the family stash for a shopping trip; they/you are not locals or known to each other.

All in all, robbing busses is a national sport. This isn't much different than the wild- west robbing of stage coaches. "Why do you rob banks? Because that's where the money is!"

Many visitors from the North are alarmed by the Guards posted in front of stores and banks with drab uniforms and 12 gauge pump shotguns, sittting on wooden chairs throughout the night. You figure it out. What's the response time of the Cops to an unreliable telephone alarm system versus the cost per hour of having a guy sit in front of your shop/bank and watch the goods. Do not be afraid of these guys, it is the rough equivelant of having a Texan with a concealed carry card in your midst. Everything is going to be o.k. (If they do have cause to engage a Ladron (robber) in a gun battle, you might want to duck- They aren't real well trained in marksmanship or tactics, but then again, they don't have to be all that good because the Guard from the next block will be by to 'get some' if he hears some commotion)

In the (not so) old days, TACA would tell us that we were scheduled to land in Roatan at 16:45 hrs on any given Saturday. Any idiot knew that wasn't true. Sunset was at 16:33 and RTB airport had no lights. Wasn't going to happen. TACA knew you were headed elsewhere!

Surprise! At 16:00 hrs, just as we should have been descending over Belice to approach Roatan, they would (or sometimes not) announce that we were being diverted to El Salvador. (That they would make no further announcements or expalnations is an entirely different story, more about TACA than anything related to this thread)

They would pack us into comfy busses at El Salvador airport and schlepp us through the dark mountain highway to the big city where we would be hosted at the fabulous 5* Intercontinental Hotel and then be dragged back for the daylight flight into Roatan. S.O.P., all the time.

Some folks noticed and were quite alarmed by the pickup truck full of aremd guards that preceed us on that 25 mile journey into the darkness. You couldn't convince your fellow travellers that this was indeed a good thing , and it certainly wouldn't have made them feel any better if they had seen the same kind of guards following us in another pickup truck.

It's a different way of life, run by a different meter. In the US we accept law enforcement's role being that of taking reports for filing insurance paperwork after an incident. In other countries, "Homie don't play dat".

Do not be afraid of the guards, they are placed there and paid for by the guys that make money from your presense. Many islands have yet an additional level or layer of law enforcement called "Tourist Police". Trust me, they aren't there to bust you for drinking or tell the beach bunnies to put their tops back on.

Be safe by being smart. If you want Disneyland, stay in Springfield or watch the Travel Channel. If you want to accept the risk and rewards of leaving your house and home, the adventure is endless!

[StSomewhere]

I just knew someone would get offended if I posted that. However, its still a valid question to want to know what the proximity was to the dive resorts. Read in to it all you want, but don't berate me for wanting to have enough information to estimate the risks and make an informed decision.

[RoatanMan]

I just knew someone would get offended if I posted that. However, its still a valid question to want to know what the proximity was to the dive resorts. Read in to it all you want, but don't berate me for wanting to have enough information to estimate the risks and make an informed decision.

Now that you know that this incident occured (assumably) on a seldom used mode of transport (for a NorteAmericano diver), from a distant location on the way to an airport city to fly to the Bay Islands, in that you know (from the article) that one of the unfortunate travellers chose to forcibly resist...

Now then, how do you rate the risks and at what decision do you now arrive?

[StSomewhere]

Didn't you say in an earlier post that someone flying in on Taca could conceivably get an unanticipated "mainland experience", vs. say, flying Continental? Its not that I haven't had some unique and exciting travel experiences in my younger years, but as a parent I've dialed back the acceptable level of "excitement" I'm willing to tolerate. For similar reasons that I wouldn't sightsee in parts of Miami.


Now that you know that this incident occured (assumably) on a seldom used mode of transport (for a NorteAmericano diver), from a distant location on the way to an airport city to fly to the Bay Islands, in that you know (from the article) that one of the unfortunate travellers chose to forcibly resist...That "unfortunate traveler" seems to have been trying to protect his companion from being "assaulted". I don't think I'm reading too much into it to know what that means. You couldn't see yourself trying to stop something like that?

[rockbeauty]

Form RoatanMan:
What I meant by that was: They were taking a bus to La Ceiba to (board a plane to) go diving...from where???

From Montreal to Honduras, if they were flying direct from Montreal meaning not travelling in CA for weeks...the "usual" route to go to the Bay islands is by American Airlines via Miami, then Miami to SAP so I would guess they were taking the bus from SAP to LaCeiba and then, the boat to Utila or Roatan.

[Hank49]

My girlfriend is from Honduras and just came back from visiting family. She didn't take any jewelry except a cheap watch. Maybe it's local on local crime, but she says people will snatch your earings right off your ear. She's from central Honduras. Roatan is like any other resort area I've been in developing countries. Much safer than the surrounding countryside.

[hopefulist]

I believe the bus was near San Pedro Sula at the time, enroute from SPS to LaCeiba. Most flights available to us were into San Pedro Sula, so that may well have been the case with these folks. Most people I know who love to dive, love to experience new cultures, too, and Honduras is a very rich country in that sense. I'll be heading by myself to SPS, then to Copan Ruinas by bus, then back to SPS and on to Utila and eventually Roatan. This makes me a little more nervous but I'm not paranoid enough to change my wonderful trip plans for it.

[RoatanMan]

Didn't you say in an earlier post that someone flying in on Taca could conceivably get an unanticipated "mainland experience", vs. say, flying Continental? Its not that I haven't had some unique and exciting travel experiences in my younger years, but as a parent I've dialed back the acceptable level of "excitement" I'm willing to tolerate. For similar reasons that I wouldn't sightsee in parts of Miami.

TACA and others no longer have to do that. The airport recvd a donation of landing lights some years ago. After sitting in the crates for 4 years, they installed them Even though Roatan Electric cut them off for unpaid electric service, they left the power on for essential services. The airport now seems to have full electricity and can land planes, day and night. Really bad weather may cause diversions, though

That "unfortunate traveler" seems to have been trying to protect his companion from being "assaulted". I don't think I'm reading too much into it to know what that means. You couldn't see yourself trying to stop something like that?

Can I see myself doing that? Read my profile. I can (and have) done that and worse, but not without first making very advised decisions.

1) What is the worst that can happen if I comply?
2) What are my odds of injury if I engage participating aggressors now identified?
3) What are the chances of improving any companion's plight?

Add into that mixture variables such as whether a companion can offer any assistance or will exacerbate the situation by attempting to assist or not being willing/able to assist. And a thousand other things.

Anecdote: My S.O. (5' 105# Female) and I walk a few feet outside of the safe zone of a straw market in Quito and are accosted. I whisper to her, "Split up watch them, 15 feet my left, show them your knife". As she did that, I opened my 4" lockback Emerson Wave as did she. Unfortunately for us, all she knew how to do was open it rather dramaticaly from her pocket with a commanding snap, not much more. The sight of the two blades- in the hands of what were just momenst before soft target tourists- caused our bludgeon armed attackers to back away quickly.

My thought process? They both had clubs, we were relatively alone, and they looked like there were some drugs involved. We had little on us to satisfy them other than "drop wallets". I had a full night's sleep but was feeling kinda' cranky. I was also 10 years younger and dumber at the time.

What would I have done if they had harmed her? No telling. But in a simple robbery, these clowns don't want anything except your cash and valuables. You do the math.

Better to give them what they think they want. That Casey Ryback stuff only works in the movies if you're Steven Seagal and have a ponytail.

[tvictory]

There have been problems recently with fires in Honduras and the airports have been intermittently closed, so its possible that the bus was the only way to go.

That said, I recall an early visit of my own to that part of the world (in 1979). We were in Punta Gorda (in southern Belize) en route to Roatan. We were planning to travel by bus into Honduras to San Pedro Sula. The local Belizeans told us we would be crazy to take the bus because there were many "banditos" along the road and that they would chop off your hand to get the watch off your wrist. We took their advice and their referral to a guy who flew us, in a dilapidated single engine plane, over the mountains to SAP (for $100, which even then seemed cheap). In retrospect, we never knew which was the riskier choice.

[Cudabait]

It's a fact.....crime does happen in Honduras, mainland and Bay Islands. It also happens everywhere else! Particularly in Texas. It would seem that posting the information is informative and serves to make travelers much more aware of their surroundings while traveling abroad. And yes, give it up if they want to take it at knife or gunpoint. Also, lots of divers travel by bus throughout Central America. I have done it myself. Tons of Europeans are always traveling by bus in Central America. Highway robbery on the roads in Honduras is nothing new.
It is very sad that a life was lost. Discussion is a good thing.

Regards,

[lsudive]

Before traveling in South America, my family and I have always taken off any jewelry except for an el cheapo watch, and hidden cash on our persons. It's just common sense. While walking in Caracas, a friend had her Raybans snatched right off her face. These people are bold, quick, and desperate. They will do anything. I agree with RoatanMan - let'em have the stuff. It's just stuff. Especially if they have guns. It was very valiant (and, as we see now, foolish) of the kid to try to protect the girl. I wonder if he thought they were going to kidnap her? Can't imagine any other reason to intervene.

[DiversMom]

All in all, not much to concern yourselves with, at least not on the streets of the Bay islands, pretty much so Mayberry RFD by comparison. On the mainland however(outside of the airports) including La Ceiba, Belize City, Tegus and others... stay in the airport, Sparky.
use taxis and the first class bus system (Hedman Alas, etc). Anything else is asking for problems. I live here permanently. I've been here three years. I NEVER use the cheap "chicken buses." My life is worth more than the 30 Lempira fare. I use first class buses when I have to travel. I'll spend the money for the safety. My teenage daughter and I have traveled throughout Honduras and have never had a problem. What to we do? First class buses, older not so stylish clothing, no expensive jewelry, valuables carried in delapidated looking bookbags, etc. I've taken the bus to La Ceiba to catch a ferry for Roatan for snorkeling and diving. For us it hapens to be cheaper to take the bus and ferry than flying from SPS to Roatan.

[DiversMom]

There have been problems recently with fires in Honduras and the airports have been intermittently closed, so its possible that the bus was the only way to go.



have been open for over a month now. The bus was a personal choice of theirs not mandated by airport closures.

[StSomewhere]

Before traveling in South America, my family and I have always taken off any jewelry except for an el cheapo watch, and hidden cash on our persons. It's just common sense. While walking in Caracas, a friend had her Raybans snatched right off her face. These people are bold, quick, and desperate. They will do anything. I agree with RoatanMan - let'em have the stuff. It's just stuff. Especially if they have guns. It was very valiant (and, as we see now, foolish) of the kid to try to protect the girl. I wonder if he thought they were going to kidnap her? Can't imagine any other reason to intervene.Sexual assault? That's how I read it.

[ScubaTim]

Doc, umm, Roatan Man, sorry to see people chalenge what you are saying... again. I have been raised and grown up in "third world" countries. If you do the smart things and not the stupid things you will be fine. I personally have spent four trips at Coco View, Roatan - yes Doc, umm, Roatan Man, we have met! I have great things to say about Honduras and as far as Roatan goes I have great things to say about the kind and caring people who live there - better than most people in large USA cities! Anyone spent any time in the wrong part of LA?

[parrotman]

Not to discount the situation of the traveler being killed but I find it interesting to read stories of how dangerous it is to travel in these other countries. What about South Central Los Angeles? What about the market district of San Francisco? Umm, down town Seattle? Anyone ever been in the projects in Dallas or St Louis Missouri? How about little Havana in Miami?
Just because we are in America does not mean that there are no issues here. I have traveled extensively in third world countries and have never had a problem. I have however had my life threatened at gun point in Los Angeles.

Common sense.. If you use common sense you will be fine.

Just my opinion

Jim