Hi,
As i realize my diving is beginning to take place farther and farther from shore, some locations 110 miles out, I am beginning to think that just a whistle and safety sausage is not adequate for signaling. Can I get some advise on all of the equipment I should bring along to help me be located in the event I get lost that far offshore? Also, does anyone have some tips on a location to store this gear, other that my BC pockets?
Thanks
doesn't it look like this guy's right arm fell off. I think they better get to him quickly.
markfm
June 23rd, 2005, 10:17 PM
Think I'd still go for the handheld submersible transceiver, unless I was truly lost at sea (waaay away from anywhere that other vessels go, and nobody knew that I was diving there, though that's a pretty suicidal approach to diving, IMO). Strobe for night vis, safety sausage for day, plus radio to do calls for help and guide search craft in (many have direction finders to home on a signal). The PLBs are cool, just not sure I could justify 3x the cost of a handheld transceiver unless I was middle of nowhere.
If you get one, check about needing a separate pressure can (save-a-butt tube) to store it in -- submersible is normally only to a couple of feet, not diver depths, so you need to put it in a sealed tube (that you can open when surfaced) for diving.
Bill51
June 23rd, 2005, 11:23 PM
Interesting and timely topic with the recent lost divers. A friend who designs radios and I were talking about investigating the market for a combination unit would include a transceiver for marine channel 16, aviation 121.5, a small GPS, and an EPERB in a submersible unit. Anyone have an idea what people would pay for such a unit if it had an integral snap down lid that protected it to 200 FSW?
Doc Intrepid
June 23rd, 2005, 11:34 PM
As i realize my diving is beginning to take place farther and farther from shore, some locations 110 miles out, I am beginning to think that just a whistle and safety sausage is not adequate for signaling. Can I get some advise on all of the equipment I should bring along to help me be located in the event I get lost that far offshore? Also, does anyone have some tips on a location to store this gear, other that my BC pockets?Here's one site to peruse (there are many others):
http://www.tabula-international.com/DIV/SMB3.html
It's primarily aimed at liveaboards in the South Pacific, however, there are elements that are useful in a more universal sense.
In particular, check out the circumstances encounted by Larry Tackett on page 10. Within the last 12 months, the case of a similar disappearance of two individuals in the vicinity of Fiji was heavily reported on this board...not to mention Greg Mickey, who drifted to his presumed demise as of last Saturday off North Carolina.
It occurs perhaps a bit more frequently that you might imagine...
mstevens
June 24th, 2005, 12:12 AM
Interesting and timely topic with the recent lost divers. A friend who designs radios and I were talking about investigating the market for a combination unit would include a transceiver for marine channel 16, aviation 121.5, a small GPS, and an EPERB in a submersible unit. Anyone have an idea what people would pay for such a unit if it had an integral snap down lid that protected it to 200 FSW?
What a cool idea. My willingness to pay would be predicated on size - if it's not really, truly small enough to take on every dive without displacing other important gear I probably wouldn't use it. I might go as high as $500US, but then I'd have to buy 3.
Bill51
June 24th, 2005, 12:36 AM
What a cool idea. My willingness to pay would be predicated on size - if it's not really, truly small enough to take on every dive without displacing other important gear I probably wouldn't use it. I might go as high as $500US, but then I'd have to buy 3.
We were talking in the neighborhood of 4”x2”x1.5” and debating between having a true 406 EPERB or using DSC coordinate transmission of GPS info since a diver would typically be within VHF range of boat. Another idea we had that some dive boat operators may not like if they have secret sites is to be able to leave the GPS on while on the surface and have it store a series of waypoints every time you hit a button and then download all the data on a PC when you get home.
markfm
June 24th, 2005, 08:07 AM
Stuffing a "normal" submersible unit into a separate save-a-butt dry cylinder is probably significantly cheaper than trying to come out with a standalone handheld that can handle dive depths.
You have speaker/microphone transducers, tuning dials, volume/squelch, strobe on/off, power to deal with. Even a relatively "cheap" case, like the 40m-rated Oly camera cases, runs what, about $150? Handheld form-factor is also a bit "odd", not too conducive to a form-fitting case, due to the antenna sticking out of it.
A normal submersible-rated radio, that can handle 1.8m submersion to get you through wave splash kinds of events, coupled with a low-cost cylinder storage case, is likely much less costly.
Curious -- would a decent diameter PVC pipe piece, permanently cemented at one end, screw thread at the other, do the trick? Looks like it would need a tube with a 3" ID.
cdiver2
June 24th, 2005, 09:24 AM
I got the Mcmurdo PLB with dive cannister good to 400'. It fits on the tank band and is in no way intrusive in fact I forgot it was there.
vladimir
June 24th, 2005, 12:18 PM
Curious -- would a decent diameter PVC pipe piece, permanently cemented at one end, screw thread at the other, do the trick? Looks like it would need a tube with a 3" ID.
Or you could pay $295 for this one:
http://www.landfallnavigation.com/spwffdive.html
cdiver2
June 24th, 2005, 12:22 PM
Or you could pay $295 for this one:
http://www.landfallnavigation.com/spwffdive.html
is the one I have, fits on the tank band no problems
Bill51
June 24th, 2005, 03:18 PM
A custom made submersible case would be nice, but I’ve been pretty frustrated with the excess buoyancy using oversized or generic cases – or you wind up hauling 4 extra pounds of lead around in the case.
While 406Mhz EPIRBs have been a vast improvement over older 121.5 units, unless they have a built in GPS or GPS feed it still can take as long as 90 minutes to get a location fix and then another 5-10 minutes to get any rescue calls out to those that might be in the area. Then one of the first things the Coast Guard does in many cases when they do locate someone floating at sea is drop them a VHF so they can communicate with them until they can get a helicopter and rescue swimmer in the water to pick them up. If a civilian aircraft picks up the 121.5 homing signal, they have no way of directly communicating with any boats that might be in the area which is why I carry my marine VHF in my flight bag on all over water flights, and I carry my aircraft VHF on the boat when I’m offshore.
I think many massive searches could be avoided altogether and more people rescued in a hurry if they only had someway to communicate with a boat that might only be one or two miles away from them. Even something as simple as an under $200 Garmin Rino would work if one was left on the dive boat to point the boat directly to a diver within 2-5 miles of the boat.
Doc Harry
June 24th, 2005, 09:11 PM
From my experience in the Navy in flying blue-water operations and searching for people lost at sea, the following items are EXTREMELY valuable signaling devices:
1. Sea Dye Marker. This stuff is HIGHLY under-rated. Can be seen by aircraft from 10 miles away on sunny days.
2. Signal Mirror. You gotta have one of these, and you gotta know how to use it.
The Aqua Star is not my favorite, the Army-Navy surplus mirrors are just fine:
http://www.leisurepro.com/Prod/ItemIndex_1/AQUSFM.html?Search=op%3dSearch%26AdvSrchSortField% 3dSKU%26SortDesc%3dFalse%26SearchTerm%3dmirror
3. Strobe light. Check out the Tek-Tite Strobe 300. It's about the size of a 3 C-cell flashlight.
The strobe hangs on my left D-ring, just like a back-up light. The SMB hangs on my rear D-ring. The signal mirror and dye goes in my thigh pocket.
maxcleosam
July 8th, 2005, 11:09 AM
From my experience in the Navy in flying blue-water operations and searching for people lost at sea, the following items are EXTREMELY valuable signaling devices:
1. Sea Dye Marker. This stuff is HIGHLY under-rated. Can be seen by aircraft from 10 miles away on sunny days.
2. Signal Mirror. You gotta have one of these, and you gotta know how to use it.
The Aqua Star is not my favorite, the Army-Navy surplus mirrors are just fine:
http://www.leisurepro.com/Prod/ItemIndex_1/AQUSFM.html?Search=op%3dSearch%26AdvSrchSortField% 3dSKU%26SortDesc%3dFalse%26SearchTerm%3dmirror
3. Strobe light. Check out the Tek-Tite Strobe 300. It's about the size of a 3 C-cell flashlight.
The strobe hangs on my left D-ring, just like a back-up light. The SMB hangs on my rear D-ring. The signal mirror and dye goes in my thigh pocket.
Do you know how long the Fluorencent Dye Marker lasts in the h20 b4 it dissolves? The description doesn't state.
Doc Harry
July 29th, 2005, 08:47 PM
Do you know how long the Fluorencent Dye Marker lasts in the h20 b4 it dissolves? The description doesn't state.
It lasts only a few hours
lairdb
July 29th, 2005, 09:44 PM
It lasts only a few hours
20-30 minutes, according to OMS (the Orion product, which is what I suspect OMS is repackaging says the same thing for a similar size.)
D_B
July 29th, 2005, 10:04 PM
Mirror , Light , PLB if you have the money , this Dye sounds good for searches from the air ..." Presto Dyechem dye had produced a very impressive slick from which the release remained consistent for around two hours, easily observed by helicopter." , and you might want to get that SMB in fluoresant yellow instead of orange ... "Yellow was the most conspicuous colour in all sea states, even with breaking wave crests, and could be located in deteriorating light when it was impossible to locate pennants of any other colour."
From ... http://www.divernet.com/safety/location0200.htm
... info obtained right here at ScubaBoard , thanks
DB
fpsndiver
August 9th, 2005, 06:39 PM
On June 4, 2004, my buddy and I found ourselves lost at sea. It is painful and embarrassing to tell this story, but I do it because I learned a great deal that day. I hope that by sharing the story that others may also learn without experiencing. What caused this was of our own making. We basically had to do a free decompression ascent with no anchor line. 45 minutes after leaving the wreck, we surfaced, and no boat in site 42 nm offshore.....and it was getting dark. I was still on my 15 ft. stop when my buddy popped the surface. I saw him spin around 360 degrees above me and throw out his arms in frustration. I popped the surace, and said,
"Crow*** we are ******". My buddy had noticed the same shark I did on our 30 foot stop and reminded me by responding, "Yeah, when is feeding time." We started inflating safety sausages, blowing whistles, and trying to stay on top of the water as much as we could. I was already cold, shivering, when I surfaced. I figured that we would be spending the night out there waiting for the Coastees to arrive, and Jeff and I tried to keep our spirits up. We were actually laughing at stuff that in hindsight was not very funny. Fortunately for us, 2 other experienced divers(My brother and Scott Corbett) were on the boat, and finally realized that something was amiss, and came looking for us. After 2.5 hours they found us, and got us back on terra boata. When the accident happened, I had the following: lift bag(lost it during the dive could have used it to mark our position on the surface while we were decompressing),reels, dive lights 2, strobes 2, whistle, and safety sausage. My dive buddy actually had 3 waterproof aerial flares, which we shot 2. None of that stuff helped them find us, the GPS on the boat and good seamanship is what found us......but if they didn't find us, and we had to rely on the Coast Guard at night................when I got home, I bought a lot more equipment....and it is all very compact and goes with me on every dive.
Signal Mirror
Aerial Flares (waterproof)6 buy them at any boat store and we have had them 140fsw and tested them and they still worked, but they don't have any guarantees.
2 Strobes (Makes the aerial search at night a lot more plausible for the Coastees)
Flashlights (that is how the C-130 found a diver recently off Frying Pan Shoals, they saw his dive light.)
2 Safety sausages they work well for added bouyancy, but tend to lay over in the wind like we had that day.
Dive Alert (in case you are close enough to your boat) Whistles wear you out blowing on them for 2 hours.......and the Dive Alert uses what ever is left of your gas.....
Dye Marker 2 tubes (one green and one orange)
I wear a bigger wing with more lift capacity to get me as far out of the water as I can.
Before going on a dive, I file a float plan with my wife..It has the equipment I carry listed, the color of my suit (black), and our anticipated time of arrival back at the docks, our destination for the day, and any alternative destination. My wife is instructed to call the Coast Guard if she doesn't hear from me by the anticipated time.
The biggest thing we do now to correct the mistake that led to this whole fiasco....is to change the way we anchor to the wrecks.....to tie in. There is always that risk when diving, of being sent adrift on a sea not so full of bliss, but it is the diving that draws us back. We can do our best to prepare for the worst, but we must also do our best to not have to use all of that stuff we carry for that Oh S*** situation. When I go out on charters, and see divers with just a BC and Regs, no lights, no knives, no signals, I am frustrated and concerned. I hope that all divers who venture offshore will make an emergency signal kit. The kits are small and can fit into a pocket. Just because it is a day dive, you should still carry lights for emergencies.
Hope this helps someone to realize they need to be safer.
Tom
mrobinson
August 9th, 2005, 10:25 PM
Glad you posted this here too Tom!
lairdb
August 10th, 2005, 01:17 AM
Dye Marker 2 tubes (one green and one orange)
Tom, what dye marker do you carry? I still haven't found a dive-safe, compact, dye marker that I'm happy with.
fpsndiver
August 10th, 2005, 08:19 AM
Tom, what dye marker do you carry? I still haven't found a dive-safe, compact, dye marker that I'm happy with.
I bought the OMS dye marker. They encase it in a plastic test tube with a screw on lid....haven't had any problems with the stuff. LeisurePro.com has them, and they are pretty cheap.
See this same thread titled "Lost at sea" in the accidents forum under close calls and near misses. I posted some pictures of the dye marker and flares there.
Tom
Tom Winters
August 10th, 2005, 08:45 AM
This page has some good solid rescue gouge on it:
http://www.equipped.com/signal.htm
Instead of using dye which can leak, dissipate too quickly, or irritate your eyes or skin, consider this:
http://www.rescuestreamer.com/
I did SAR in the Navy and have been twice rescued at sea while diving. Because I usaed to dive in some wicked currents in Hawaii, I wore a fluorescent orange sweatshirt over my wetsuit so the other people in my groups could ping on me right away. Doing a search dive, I got caught in the Molokai Express and went out to sea. I took off my sweatshirt and attached to the short hooked pole spear that I used to steady on the bottom in the rip. A guy out fishing over my visible horizon saw it and got me.
The second time was when a Marine managed to rip the entire starter cord right off our dive team outboard on a drift dive. As he flew backwards, he released the cord and handle so we got to watch it arc gracefully through the air, out of reach, into 130' of water. I chased the damn thing down but it had too much of a head start on me. Back onboard, I used a camping steel signal mirror which caught someone's eye miles away. We couldn't get too mad at the jarhead - it was our fault for letting him near the engine in the first place.
That Rescue Streamer is a really good thing if you're out at sea. After an hour of flying SAR over an ocean, everything looks the same, but that straight line of plastic on the ocean is a real eyecatcher. Your tanks make great radar reflectors especially if Navy aircraft are looking for you. Their low-frequency search radars have a great range, and the metal pops out like a periscope. Try to float them as high as you can.
We used to tape soda cans together, weight one end, and drop them at sea off Siberia to mess with the Soviets. They had periscope blips all over the place while our subs were doing God-knows-what up there.
lairdb
August 10th, 2005, 10:58 AM
I bought the OMS dye marker. They encase it in a plastic test tube with a screw on lid....haven't had any problems with the stuff. LeisurePro.com has them, and they are pretty cheap.
Yeah, I've got the OMS tubes, and they're very robust to carry; I'm not as confident in the duration when used. PainsWessex Australia makes a product called SeaMark (http://www.painswessex.com.au/Marine/seamark.htm) that quotes an hour's useful life (but the package does seem a little more easily punctured.)
I've thought about the Rescue Streamer that Tom mentions, and it does address the duration thing -- my only hesitation is that it doesn't just scream "emergency in progress!" the way a dye slick does. If a pilot with no idea there's an SAR going on, or even before it's activated, is zipping over and sees the orange stripe, are they going to think "uh-oh, inspect that", or are they going to think "odd object in sea; ignore"?
