obtaining gas

just a question, guys Do you just go to your local gas supplier and say I need UHP He in order to mix a breathing gas for diving? Do they just sell it to you? Do you need a gas blender cert? What about O2?

brandon

Step one... use the phone and call several supply houses and tell them that you are thinking of opening an account with them and if you give them all of your business what prices will the give you on welding O2, He, Ar?? ?... and find out what they charge for cylinder lease by the year as well as demurrage by the month.

Step two... pick a supply house and go in and set up an account.

Step three... lease a T of ABO and a T of HP (high purity) He and negotiate the best price you can.

If they ask you what it is for (they shouldn't ... it is none of their business) tell them it is none of their business... no... that would be rude... tell them you want the ABO because it has low moisture and the HP He because it has low or no O2... you don't need to tell them how you plan to use it. Just don't go in with dive stickers all over your truck and scuba tanks in the back like I do...

If they ask how much you will be using on a monthly basis tell them you are just starting up and don't know yet but that you want the best price the can give you... and they can whack a bunch off the list price!

BTW... my gas supplier has to stock ABO for me since I am his only customer that uses it.

And for us acronymophobics....

T, ABO, and HP are.......

T = cylinder size that holds ~300cf depending upon the gas...
some suppliers call them large, or 300 or something like that... CGA size designation is T

ABO = aviator's breathing oxygen... not USP so it doesn't need a prescription and is actually purer that medical O2 plus it has very low moisture content...

HP = high purity... 99.995% pure also called 4 nines but then so is industrial He but I want HP because it has low/no O2 and no possible contamination with other welding gases (supposedly)... and I can get it even cheaper than most folks get industrial He...

BTW in step one be prepared for some dealers not to want to talk price over the phone... they have to be concerned about competition... you might need to actually go into each storefront and talk face to face... again don't drive your scuba mobile or wear your favorite dive shop team hat. In fact... best put on your Carharts...

How much does helium run you getting a setup at home? What about 02, or regular air? I guess I am asking at what point does it become worthwhile to have one's own mixing station?

Is a compressor always the best way to go for air? Or do you guys just fill the tank with the right mix of he and O2 and then take it to the local shop for an air top off?


Tommy

"you don't need to tell them how you plan to use it. Just don't go in with dive stickers all over your truck and scuba tanks in the back like I do"......Uncle Pug

I live outside of one small Texas town and work in another small Texas town. I just walked in an "Airgas" place and told them I wanted Helium and Oxygen to mix trimix for diving. They got on the phone and determined what kind of Helium I needed from their distributor, and readily agreed to sell me Aviation Oxygen and Helium in any quanity I wanted. Asked me several questions about Trimix, seemed pretty interested, and not the least bit nervous about selling it to me. I was kinda suprised, but I think people in Texas are a little different. If you want to do something, most folks sort of stand back and let you do it without giving you a lot of flack. Unless it involves "sin", then some people want to interfere big time.

I had a buddy who had an experience like yours. He told them what he wanted it for, they were real helpful (though they didn't really know what they were doing and sold him USP) and interested. He left feeling all warm and cozy and went home to wait for the delivery truck. A couple days later he got a call "Sorry, the head office says no selling He for dive use, liability you know."

So I stick to "Don't ask don't tell". Why take chances? (Esp because in his case it was the only shop in town).

Though he called them a couple weeks later and ordered some no explanation and they sent it no problems.

I live outside of one small Texas town and work in another small Texas town. I just walked in an "Airgas" place and told them I wanted Helium and Oxygen to mix trimix for diving. They got on the phone and determined what kind of Helium I needed from their distributor, and readily agreed to sell me Aviation Oxygen and Helium in any quanity I wanted. Asked me several questions about Trimix, seemed pretty interested, and not the least bit nervous about selling it to me. I was kinda suprised, but I think people in Texas are a little different. If you want to do something, most folks sort of stand back and let you do it without giving you a lot of flack. Unless it involves "sin", then some people want to interfere big time. [/B]

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We buy gas for the shop from several different suppliers. Sometimes we need a bunch in a hurry. If one guy is out or not delivering in the area we get it from the other. I'm shure that the use has come up in conversation with one supplier or the other at one time or another. The use of mixed gasses in diving is catching on and so is the idea of divers buying the gas. I don't know if it's any easier for us to buy as a business or not, but I haven't had any trouble. The biggest problem we have had is the cost of the He $70 - $117 for a T bottle and the fact that it's hard to O2 (and sometimes He) at 2640 PSI. The suppliers seem to like O2 at lower presures.

Aviator's grade oxygen is exactly the same as medical grade oxygen, with the exception it is run through additional filters to remove all moisture; moisture at altitude will freeze in the oxygen lines and is not good. In areas of Florida, they now have "Diver's Grade" oxygen, which is the same as aviator's grade. The companies came up with this for marketing, to trace the usage and demand by the diving industry.

UHP (ultra high purity) helium is the stuff you want for diving. I know of many people/places that use regular welding grade helium (much cheaper). Impurities in helium lead to bad welds and generally is not a problem in helium as the welding business would not put up with inconsistent quality. *However* the issue is when a company is short on bottles and they paint a low or "empty" argon bottle (or something else) for use as helium storage if in a rush. This does occassionally happen in the welding business. If that bottle gets into the mix and winds up in your pile, well, that is not good. This is especially important at greater depths when even minimal percentages of gas can have dramatic effects. A UHP helium bottle is required to be evacuated with a vacuum to remove any trace gasses, before refilling with helium. That is what you are paying for as all helium basically comes from the same source.

Depending on the region you are getting gas from, you may not have any worries with full disclosure. My distributor knows what I am doing and could care less. Plus, it would have been hard to conceal the fact, as I have my gas delivered to my house and when I open the garage they see it full of dive gear. Furthermore, many distributor's deal with dive shops and are saavy with diving needs, at least with oxygen. However, as offered previously, it may be best to offer as little information as possible.

After polling around the area for prices, you can use the competition against each other and haggle a lower price. They have quite a bit of wiggle room, but don't expect to play hardball. While I use a considerable amount of gas annually in respect to the average (tech) diver, it is still trivial in comparison to the welding industry.

Cheers,