DIR-F Needs Long Primary

I understand the DIR-F course is to make better divers (some say what OW/AOW left out) and also as a starting point to get into Cave and Tech diving. It is also my understanding that even if you don't intend to go Tech/Cave you will benefit from the class. I know one of the dead giveaways of a DIR diver is the octo around their neck. I understand why it is there and am warming up to the reason though it goes against what some of us are taught but I digress.

The other tell tale sign is the primary second stage on a 7 foot hose. I fully understand why you need it for in caves and other overhead environments makes perfect sense and is a excellent idea.

Now to the question, on the GUE website the DIR-F course (http://www.gue.com/classroom/dirfund.shtml) under Course Limits states "No overhead environment diving" Further down on the same page under Equipment Requirements it states "One of the second-stages must be on a 5- to 7-foot/1.5- to 2-meter hose." If there is no over head environment then why the long hose? If I misread then please excuse me but it looks like this is used for open water too. In open water does it serve a purpose too?

Thanks

it Simplifies air sharing it is easier because you dont have to be face to face and hold on to each other to breathe while diving. your long hose is the one you donate.

UnixSage:

I understand the DIR-F course is to make better divers (some say what OW/AOW left out) and also as a starting point to get into Cave and Tech diving. It is also my understanding that even if you don't intend to go Tech/Cave you will benefit from the class. I know one of the dead giveaways of a DIR diver is the octo around their neck. I understand why it is there and am warming up to the reason though it goes against what some of us are taught but I digress.

The other tell tale sign is the primary second stage on a 7 foot hose. I fully understand why you need it for in caves and other overhead environments makes perfect sense and is a excellent idea.

Now to the question, on the GUE website the DIR-F course (http://www.gue.com/classroom/dirfund.shtml) under Course Limits states "No overhead environment diving" Further down on the same page under Equipment Requirements it states "One of the second-stages must be on a 5- to 7-foot/1.5- to 2-meter hose." If there is no over head environment then why the long hose? If I misread then please excuse me but it looks like this is used for open water too. In open water does it serve a purpose too?

Thanks

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The quick and dirty answer is:
The long hose is part of the standardized configuration.
This leads to a standard set of responses when trouble arises.
There is no need to figure out where your buddies back up reg is or where the primary leads to ect. Having everything in a standard configuration, allows for quick and smooth action, when action is required. This cuts down on mistakes and stress, when things go wrong. This can be broken down into many paragraphs, but as I said, this is the quick and dirty answer.

Maresreg:

it Simplifies air sharing it is easier because you dont have to be face to face and hold on to each other to breathe while diving. your long hose is the one you donate.

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Yup, I know the long hose is the one you donate. Even at 7 foot I would imagine that you still grab your buddy on assent so that you dont become seperated even at 7 foot that could still happen quickly, or is that a no no also? I am also suprised that in open water this is not looked at as a entanglement hazard when deployed. I guess the biggest value (that I see) is that you have the same rig every time.

In addition to what others have answered also much easier to manage a gas share. Once you have the procedure practiced, the long hose provides enough space for each diver to manage their own buoyancy, stay horizontal, swim to the exit (ie get back to anchor line when diving off shore), and complete minimum deco stops (like safety stops).

The hard thing to explain about DIR on the net is that it's like trying to explain why it rains, until you understand convection, density, evaporation, condensation etc it's hard to understand why it rains. After you understand that, it's hard to explain which comes first the rain, evaporation, or condensation.

You'll get a lot from the class... just too much information to provide the whole picture here.

UnixSage:

Yup, I know the long hose is the one you donate. Even at 7 foot I would imagine that you still grab your buddy on assent so that you dont become seperated even at 7 foot that could still happen quickly, or is that a no no also? I am also suprised that in open water this is not looked at as a entanglement hazard when deployed. I guess the biggest value (that I see) is that you have the same rig every time.

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The easiest way to understand the value is to actually do an open water OOA drill while sharing air on a long hose. I do this with my AOW students regularly ... and almost always my students see the benefits to the point where they eventually "convert" to this style of regulator (even those who have no interest in DIR).

One thing you have to understand is that DIR divers don't "grab" each other for an OOA ascent. We practice our buoyancy control to the point where we can ascend independent of the need to do that ... typically while facing each other in a prone position. What the long hose provides is the means to assist yourself to the surface while your buddy remains in close proximity. This leaves both divers in a position to deal with any other issues that may need to be dealt with during an ascent.

If you have the opportunity, go dive with someone who uses a long-hose reg setup and practice an OOA in the open water. Review the procedure thoroughly prior to the dive ... it's a bit different than what you were taught in OW class. But once you've gone through it, I'm reasonably certain you'll see the advantages for yourself.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

mer:

You'll get a lot from the class... just too much information to provide the whole picture here.

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It will be a while before I do this (if at all) but some of the practices seem to appeal to me. I am working on buying my first equipment so I am trying to get things easly changed if needed.. Swapping out a hose is not difficult or expensive.

Thanks for the insight.

UnixSage:

I am also suprised that in open water this is not looked at as a entanglement hazard when deployed.

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When routed and stowed properly, the long hose does not pose an entanglement hazard. Even when deployed, it can be positioned to where it is out of the way. In my DIR-F class, we did our one-minute ascents while sharing air with the long hose, and it was no problem at all. Swimming while sharing air wouldn't have been much harder. Depending on which side the recipient is on, the hose can be routed behind the head if needed...

Also, in open water, what would the long hose get caught on? Coral? Ship wreck? Once the OOA buddy has air, the emergency is over and things should be back to normal, including propery bouyancy control and trim. This also helps to avoid obstacles...

BTW, the long primary hose is hogarthian. So while its DIR, some non-DIR tech divers also use the long hose.

StSomewhere:

BTW, the long primary hose is hogarthian. So while its DIR, some non-DIR tech divers also use the long hose.

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Agreed. I know that there are LDS'es out there that teaches using the longhose and bungied backup in BOW classes.

Even if I weren't a GUE trained diver, it'd make perfect sense to me.