I guess you could call me a DIR wannabe. I subscribe to a lot of the ideas DIR brings to the table and one of those that I strongly support is minimalism when it comes to gear configuration. If you don't need it, don't bring it. Extra crap just gets in the way.
Anyway, about a week ago I was checking out the conditions at Ft. Wetherill in Jamestown, RI and spotted someone gearing up for a dive. Those of you who have been at this site know that it's a great spot for classes, interesting dives without going very deep (let's say 80fsw max for the basic coves although it does get much deeper in the middle of the channel where there's -nothing- to see but mud), etc. I usually dive with a 98cf low pressure steel tank and have never had a want for air doing any dives here. Back to our diver gearing up... his setup looked pretty technical so I took a second to look a little closer.
Drysuit... OK, lots of people use a drysuit year round. OMS BP/W setp... OK, I love my BP/W... Doubles of trimix with a 40cf slung stage. Er... what?
My fault for not asking him directly (and I thought it may come across as rude) but why on earth would someone need that kind of gas at a site like this? Granted the tanks could have just had air in them but again, doubles AND a 40cf stage?
If I am missing something here, please enlighten me. Also, what other disproportionate gear/need situations have you come across?
pants!
July 26th, 2005, 03:57 PM
Maybe he was training or practicing?
pants!
July 26th, 2005, 03:57 PM
Why do you say "doubles of trimix" anyway?
mstudley
July 26th, 2005, 03:58 PM
Maybe he was training or practicing?
This guy was solo so maybe, but for what? I imagine you would use trimix at a much different site even for practicing. It is plausible though.
mstudley
July 26th, 2005, 03:59 PM
Why do you say "doubles of trimix" anyway?
There were two steel tanks setup as doubles (with a manifold) with large trimix stickers on them. How else can I say it?
pants!
July 26th, 2005, 04:01 PM
Just because they had big trimix stickers doesn't mean that's what was in them. Besides, wouldn't you rather practice with this type of gear in relatively shallow water before, say, taking it to 150'? ;)
mstudley
July 26th, 2005, 04:05 PM
Just because they had big trimix stickers doesn't mean that's what was in them. Besides, wouldn't you rather practice with this type of gear in relatively shallow water before, say, taking it to 150'? ;)
If you read my original post I did state that he might have had air in them... still quite a bit of air to drag along with you.
anyway, no I think he'd go somewhere else to practice... and bring someone along in case they had trouble with the gear out of inexperience.
teknitroxdiver
July 26th, 2005, 04:19 PM
anyway, no I think he'd go somewhere else to practice... and bring someone along in case they had trouble with the gear out of inexperience.
Then I'd say you might be a bit confuzzled. What if he was making work-up dives, or trying a new bit of gear, and all his 'normal' dives were solo. Wouldn't it make sense to practice in the same buddy situation, with the same gear, as the real dives? Furthermore, I don't know about you, but if I had doubles with trimix stickers, I wouldn't scrape the stickers off each time I put air in them....
Wayward Son
July 26th, 2005, 04:25 PM
Some divers like to dive what for them is a standard configuration. He may have been teched up, trimix, etc, doing a prep dive. Or just shaking out a new configuration prior to using it deep. Or he may have just been doing a fun dive, but since his normal setup is doubles & a slung pony, that's what went over the side. Without asking, no way to know.
Without knowing what he was actually up to, I have a hard time being critical, just bc his described rig seems excessive for the site.
pdoege
July 26th, 2005, 04:25 PM
I routinely do easy dives with all of my cave gear.
Double 104s, AL80 stage, AL40 deco, etc.
Keeps me in practice.
If I am diving with a buddy I don't bring the extra stuff because I don't want to slow someone else down, but when I'm solo I bring the full kit.
Peter
medic001918
July 27th, 2005, 12:19 AM
You guys have already hit my thoughts exactly. The biggest thing that comes to mind is that this divers dives the same configuration no matter where he dives. If you make a routine out of doing this, you have less concern about forgetting a piece of gear when you do a dive that needs all the gear. I'm sure a lot of other people use all of the same gear on every dive, regardless of location/depth/etc. They just might not be going toward tech diving like this diver appeared to be.
Shane
CIBDiving
July 27th, 2005, 03:44 AM
I guess you could call me a DIR wannabe.
My condolences.
I subscribe to a lot of the ideas DIR brings to the table and one of those that I strongly support is minimalism when it comes to gear configuration. If you don't need it, don't bring it. Extra crap just gets in the way.
Actualy DIR copied that - it's been a staple of experienced divers for many years.
... interesting dives without going very deep (let's say 80fsw max for the basic coves although it does get much deeper in the middle of the channel where there's -nothing- to see but mud), etc. I usually dive with a 98cf low pressure steel tank and have never had a want for air doing any dives here.
how many dives do you usualy do at that site? I'm going to guess more than 1, eh?
Many divers with doubles rigs get 2 ( or more ) dives out of a single fill, and only bring that doubles set not 2 singles. Did you expect the guy to break his doubles apart
Drysuit... OK, lots of people use a drysuit year round. OMS BP/W setp... OK, I love my BP/W... Doubles of trimix with a 40cf slung stage. Er... what?
As you said the bottles May have had air in them, or they may have had nitrox not tri.
From strictly a safety factor I think the stage bottle was overkill.
Dive-aholic
July 27th, 2005, 04:29 AM
I dive nitrox to only 30-40 ffw frequently in doubles. Overkill? Yes for that situation. But the best place to get down trim and buoyancy is in shallow water. And the more I practice there, the better I'll be overall. If you can keep your depth steady in 10 feet, you can keep it anywhere. Besides, it's between 10 and 20 feet that it really counts. Is the nitrox necessary? No, it's just what I fill my doubles with. The trimix labels don't necessarily mean he was diving mix. The pony? Again, it's all about trim and buoyancy. Train in a safe place before you take it into harsher conditions.
mstudley
July 27th, 2005, 08:32 AM
I'm sure a lot of other people use all of the same gear on every dive, regardless of location/depth/etc.
And my question is....... why? Why over equip yourself for a dive?
Charlie99
July 27th, 2005, 09:01 AM
And my question is....... why? Why over equip yourself for a dive?Same gear every dive means that everything is in the same place everytime. Makes it easier to develop automatic responses to problems.
The next step of course, is to have every diver have the same gear so you know what everyone else has and where it is.
This sort of stuff should be second nature to a DIR wannabe. :crafty:
Some people dive to see the pretty fishes. Some people dive to dive --- in that their main focus is to build up dive skills and to do more and more challenging dives. It's quite reasonable for someone with this sort of orientation to be doing a dive very "over equipped".
Also, what other disproportionate gear/need situations have you come across?In almost every dive environment you can see people carrying stuff they don't need. For example, many divers bring depth gauges and/or computers when diving a 25' reefs in the Florida Keys. :11ztongue Maybe this example is stretching it a bit, but the same concept holds --- I still bring my computer because it's part of my standard gear.
pants!
July 27th, 2005, 09:03 AM
DIR or not, there are several plausible reasons the guy was geared the way he was for the dive he was doing. It's totally unfair to him to accuse him of anything without knowing what was going on.
mstudley
July 27th, 2005, 09:23 AM
DIR or not, there are several plausible reasons the guy was geared the way he was for the dive he was doing. It's totally unfair to him to accuse him of anything without knowing what was going on.
OK look... I'm not accusing anyone of anything just questioning. My intention in posting this thread in the first place was to get some responses as to why someone would bring more equipment than necessary on a dive and to see if anyone else had had any similar experiences. That's it. This isn't a DIR pro/con thread, this isn't a thread where I am attacking someones practices, just questioning.
pants!
July 27th, 2005, 09:32 AM
Well, in fairness you are the one who started out the thread by calling yourself a DIR wannabe and using that as a reason to carry minimal gear. You also specifically asked for reasons he may have been doing this while kinda making fun of him.. and he's not here to defend himself, so we are :)
People take more gear than they "have to" all the time, for lots of good reasons. I've used steel doubles while my buddies were in Al80s on a 30 foot lake dive just to get more practice with them.
The smart diver doesn't strap on his doubles and deco bottle *only* when he's going to 150' on trimix... he does it lots of times first when he's going to 80' or 40' so that he builds up muscle memory and the gear becomes a part of him. Maybe this guy was just getting into deco diving, so he was practicing his bottle slinging and gas switching skills.
Or maybe he just thought it looked cool ;)
dbulmer
July 27th, 2005, 09:43 AM
Or maybe he was just pants! :)
NWGratefulDiver
July 27th, 2005, 10:00 AM
I guess you could call me a DIR wannabe. I subscribe to a lot of the ideas DIR brings to the table and one of those that I strongly support is minimalism when it comes to gear configuration. If you don't need it, don't bring it. Extra crap just gets in the way.
First off, I would encourage you not to do what so many DIR wannabe's do and concentrate overmuch on what other divers are doing. Focus instead on your own goals ... and if someone's doing something you really want to know about and don't understand, ask him why. When you get around to taking your Fundamentals class, that's what your instructor will encourage you to do.
My read on your initial entry is that either this fellow was training with gear he anticipates using in future technical dives, or that he simply wants to dive with the same rig on every dive for familiarity reasons. I have lots of friends who'll go out on recreational dives with doubles and deco bottles for just those reasons.
There are other valid reasons why someone might seem "overdressed" for a given dive ... without actually asking the guy, no one can really know which one applies in this case.
Next time you see someone like that, use it as a learning opportunity ... put on a friendly face and ask him why ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
in_cavediver
July 27th, 2005, 01:46 PM
From strictly a safety factor I think the stage bottle was overkill.
I wouldn't be so sure. If you are working on valve manipulations with a new gear configuration, it is possible to turn all of your air off. (I know of a few people who have done just that!). In that case, a second buddy bottle is good solution. (IE, the sling tank)
String
July 27th, 2005, 03:13 PM
Id say practicing. Either testing new kit, testing a new configuration or testing procedures for other dives.
Ive seen CC rebreather divers spending an hour on 6m training platforms just doing drills and such.
mjh
July 27th, 2005, 06:29 PM
Ok, I can't resist…
DIR = minimalist??? "One primary and two backup lights should be fine for most situations" from DIR/GUE webpage. Like many on this board when I started diving you had 1 reg, no BC, a watch, pressure/depth gauges and of course the mandatory BIG Sea Hunt KNIFE.
teknitroxdiver
July 27th, 2005, 07:16 PM
Ok, I can't resist…
DIR = minimalist??? "One primary and two backup lights should be fine for most situations" from DIR/GUE webpage. Like many on this board when I started diving you had 1 reg, no BC, a watch, pressure/depth gauges and of course the mandatory BIG Sea Hunt KNIFE.
Uhm....I dare guess you didn't research the why behind that, did you?
Almost all of the courses offered by GUE are tech courses, mostly either 'Tech', or 'Cave'. In these cases, that's the minimum you need to survive. If your primary light goes out, you don't exactly want to swim 2000' of cave in the dark because the batteries are dead in your lone 2AAA candy store light.
melfox26
July 27th, 2005, 07:55 PM
DIR or not, there are several plausible reasons the guy was geared the way he was for the dive he was doing. It's totally unfair to him to accuse him of anything without knowing what was going on.
We know he certainly isn't DIR because he was diving solo as pointed out in an earlier post.
Mel
Xanthro
July 27th, 2005, 08:22 PM
There are so many situations that would explain his gear set up. Many have been covered by other posters.
He could have been training as well. Perhaps he was practicing BCD removal in preparation for a wreck penentration at depth and needed to practice with the exact gear he would be using.
Perhaps on his last deep dive he felt his trim was off and was using this easier dive as an opportunity to test weight distribution.
There's an almost unlimited number of reasons why to wear such tech oriented gear on a rec dive.
mjh
July 27th, 2005, 08:29 PM
DIR folks are so touchy. I recalled the quote from awhile back when I was doing some reading on DIR.
Went to: “What Is DIR”, written by Cave Diver, (think he might know something about DIR) http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=44823. As I read thru his outline he wrote the following:
“Dan Volker wrote an excellent article, which contains illustrations of the Hogarthian gear configuration. It can be found at http://www.sfdj.com/fall/ under the title "Doing it Right Part Two." Another excellent article on the Hogarthian method was written by Jarrod Jablonski and can be found at http://www.gue.com/equipment/jj-hogarth.shtml
I think DIR has a lot to offer but without a doubt I am a sinful, horrible solo diver.
CIBDiving
July 27th, 2005, 09:59 PM
Agreed!!!
MikeFerrara
August 1st, 2005, 10:23 AM
I wouldn't be so sure. If you are working on valve manipulations with a new gear configuration, it is possible to turn all of your air off. (I know of a few people who have done just that!). In that case, a second buddy bottle is good solution. (IE, the sling tank)
That's hard to believe. Who did that?
The best practice while working on valve shutdowns is to have your buddy standing by while you do it...just in case.
