Dacor Website?

[undrwater]

I'm having trouble accessing Dacor's website. Just for reference, is it divedacor.com?

I'm not getting a ping reply either. Anyone know the IP address?

[Panic]

I'm having trouble accessing Dacor's website. Just for reference, is it divedacor.com?

I'm not getting a ping reply either. Anyone know the IP address?

99.9% of the sites on the Internet aren't pingable because they are sitting behind firewalls. Using NSLOOKUP, I got the IP address as 4.38.34.11. I'm unable to get there also. I was there looking around about a week ago, and they had a notice stating that their "new, redesigned" site was coming soon. Perhaps that's why it's down?

[undrwater]

Probably so. I get timeouts with nslookup as well. They've been down a few days now at least...look forward to them being back up.

[Panic]

Probably so. I get timeouts with nslookup as well.

Might be another problem at hand. I can type "nslookup www.divedacor.com" and get the IP listed in my other reply. Hopefully when they come back up, they'll have their product catalog listed online. That's something that was missing before.

[scubapro50]

the parent company is Head Sports and you can go thru their websight at www.head.com and try there. You can pull up just about everything but Dacor ..... the Mares sight is working fine but when you click on Dacor the link goes bad. I have been trying to pull up this sight since last November. It usually said "New 2005 Dacor sight comming soon". Gave up in May when it still said that. HEAD doesn't seem to want to support Dacor. They were not a DEMA last year, missed Seaspace this year. They really don't want to answer why they have "screwed" so many divers by not supporting their equipment warrantes. I will keep the older equipment I have purchased from them put as it wears out I WILL NOT BUY DACOR. They lost about $900 in my business when I replaced my BC and purchased a new computer in June 2005 (bought an ARIES BC and an ARIES computer).

[undrwater]

Well...there you go...here's hoping they're not going belly-up.

If there's anyone out there who is currently/ or has recently worked for Dacor that can explain what's going on without incurring to much wrath; can you please enlighten me/us on the situation?

I've recently purchased a Dacor product, and I was wondering what kind of support I could expect directly from Dacor. (Should have checked this out before the purchase, but hindsight is...)

[Wayward Son]

Basically, none. My LDS gave up trying to get Dacor support a long time ago.

I do know a shop in FL that has a large stock of parts for older Dacor products & can still service most of it, bc they bought a bunch of parts way back when the buyout occured.

[undrwater]

Ugh! :11ztongue

Oh well...it's a good excuse then to use the BC till it dies then get the BP/Wing. (Or get BP/Wing peices along the way)

[scubapro50]

Dacor use to make some really good stuff from the early 50s' thru about 2000. They were purchased by Head Sports to join a line of products that include Penn tennis stuff, 2 or 3 different names in sking and snowboarding, and now Mares and Dacor in the scuba diving department. Head announced that Dacor would no longer service or make parts for any equipment made before the takeover date. This made many owners of Dacor regulators mad because they were sold with an unconditional "lifetime" warranty which promised to supply both parts and service without a time limit to the original "registered" owner. They even mailed out plastic warranty cards to the owners as proof they received the mail in card. Now the plastic cards and the paperwork that the warranty was written on in the manual is not worth anything. The new stuff Dacor has released has not made any great advances. It is "average" at best and I would rate most of their gear about the same quality as XS , LDl,ScubaMax and Cressi. I would never buy another Dacor product because of their past history and never knowing when they may deceide to discontinue service and parts on their current model lines. (Note : many LDS have dropped the Dacor line due to the problems of getting parts not only for their older merchandise but the current lines as well. They perfer to go with other companies like Atomic, Zeagle, Aeris which are younger and more commited to providing customer service. Mares still makes excellent equipment also but I'm a little worried because they are still owned by Head.)

[ilee1990]

I've been doing research online for my new and first BC. I have a list of BCs that I was going to try on and Dacor Hemisohere and Elite are on that list. So I went to their website to find it down for days now. So I called the 800 number and the customer service rep said they were told mid-September for the new Dacor site.

I wasn't aware of all the non-support issues and only new Dacor because my husband who has been certified since 1978 spoke highly of them. But he's been out of the dive scene for over 10 years.

Now I'm unsure if I should invest my money on them. I saw the Hemisphere advertised in the current issue of Scuba Diving magazine. Does this mean that they support this model? Hard to get answers without a website. I haven't gone to my LDS yet. They sell Mares and the customer service person said they would be my Dacor shop. But her first answer was "There's no shop in Anchorage".

Advice???

[jonnythan]

Dacor used to be one of the big names in dive gear, and they've been around a long time.. but some time back they were acquired by Mares/Head and have been dwindling out of existence ever since. There have been issues of service and repair parts, and I'm not sure how much longer the brand will be around. I'd suggest you look elsewhere.

[Wayward Son]

It's true, Dacor USED to be a great company. Back in the day it was family owned. They made good products & stood behind them. Since the buyout, all those years invested in the marketplace have been simply kissed goodbye.

However, the following was posted on another board last year, and while I haven't dealt with them myself I do know one person who sent an older reg to them for service, got it back promptly & is happy with it. So you might want to save this off in case you need it later:

Older Dacor parts are still available. Scuba Repair Express in Tavernier has plenty
of parts as posted earlier on this site. Mares bought out Dacor as stated in earlier
posts to take over a greater share of the US market. They immediately dropped all
of the older "Dacor" products and replaced them with all Mares made units.
That's why similar products are marketed under different names. We stocked up on
older Dacor parts and still have them in good supply. The regulators and BC's are
all servicable. I would imagine there are others in the industry that did the same
thing so it would just be a matter of finding who has the parts for your particular
regulator. If you have difficulty in finding someone that can service Dacor models
back through the Olympic line give us a call at 1-800-649-4659. Our technicians
are factory trained, we have all the specifications and "factory" parts.
If you're coming to the Keys you can mail your regs to us and we'll have it ready
when you get down here. If you're not coming to the Keys, mail it down and we can
have it back to you within about a week to 10 days depending on how busy we are
at the time. Don't give up, help is only a phone call away.

_________________________
www.diverscityusa.com
Scuba Repair Express
mail@diverscityusa.com

[undrwater]

I'd advise not to buy Dacor. I regret now that I have.

This kind of behavior smacks of instability...what business would shut down a web page with the excuse that a new one is being designed? Typically both new and old sites are up at the same time, and the new one gets gradually migrated in. I think Head is probably considering the profitability of maintaing two scuba brands, and if they've felt comfortable about not providing supporting for the equipment of the company they bought, then it's not a stretch to think that they'll not support something you buy today if they shut down Dacor altogether.

I'll dive my Dacor BC (I'll remove the labels if it doesn't reduce the BC's functionality or safety), but I'll never purchase anything Dacor in the future...nor Mares, nor Head.

Regards

[tzeyap]

I'd advise not to buy Dacor. I regret now that I have.

This kind of behavior smacks of instability...what business would shut down a web page with the excuse that a new one is being designed? Typically both new and old sites are up at the same time, and the new one gets gradually migrated in. I think Head is probably considering the profitability of maintaing two scuba brands, and if they've felt comfortable about not providing supporting for the equipment of the company they bought, then it's not a stretch to think that they'll not support something you buy today if they shut down Dacor altogether.

I'll dive my Dacor BC (I'll remove the labels if it doesn't reduce the BC's functionality or safety), but I'll never purchase anything Dacor in the future...nor Mares, nor Head.

Regards


I would echo your sentiments !! After failing to get anyone to help replace the battery on my dive computer, I sent 3 messages to Dacor through their 'contact us' on their web-site. I did not receive a single acknowledgement - never mind a response !

I will not buy any products with this brand name.

[scubapro50]

there has been a lot of posts on problems at Dacor ..... to review some of them try these ....... www.scubaboard.com/t75084-.html ...... also other threads you may want to read are 70450, 37606, 70907, 8197, 76627, and 1214 .

[ilee1990]

My husband keeps telling me to go with Scubapro. He still has his MK 5 and it works well.
I'm just upset because I thought that I had finally decided between 2 BCs and now there's no way I'd buy anything from Dacor except maybe a wetsuit :-)

I guess I'm still shopping around.

[scubapro50]

if I were to purchase a new regulator today I would look at Zeagle or Atomic ..... Scubapro are nice but I think you may want to look around first and see what's available.

[SteveDiver]

ALL of our equipment is Dacor and we have had zero issues and my dive buddy and I have over 175 dives with our DACOR equipment and it has NEVER needed service. We use the Dacor Falcon BCD's, Dacor Eagle Octo. I have flown all over the world with my equipment and if needed my LDS works on Dacor. One thing to remember there are some divers that feel the need to compare their equipment with others and if someone has equipment different than theirs they think it is garbage. Kind of like looking to see who's is bigger (lol) You know ford versus Chevy?? even though they both do the same thing. Maybe there has been issues with DACOR in the past I do not know. I have had mine for two years and would not use anything else but. You will also notice that some divers are geared up to the 9's thinking their **** don't stink however they look ridiculus especially the ones that put on tons of gear to jump in a mud hole in Texas (lol) my gear does the same exact thing that theirs does. Some people make diving into a fashion statement and some people are just plain down to earth divers. Good luck..

[Wayward Son]

Steve, the issues are not in the past. They are now. Their website was up last summer, it vanished months ago. Authorized Dacor dealers tell me flat out that they will sell me Dacor if I insist on it, but that they have been abandonded by Dacor and are getting either no support, or horrible support.

Dacor gear in the past came with a [lifetime[/b] warranty. After the buyout, the new owners said "Nope, we will not only not honor any warranties on those products, we will not even provide parts or any other support for it."

Customers who bought Dacor in good faith were left totally screwed. The Dacor of today is owned by the people who did this.

Dacor was an excellent company. They made excellent gear. The gear made since the buyout has generally gotten favorable reviews. However, they are owned by people who chose to screw over their customer base. Anyone who wishes to trust them to not do so again is free to make that choice. I think it's a bad one, IMHO.

If they aren't taking care of their dealers, I don't see that end customers have much to hope for.

This stuff is expensive. I prefer to invest in products from a company that has a history of continual support. Examples include Scubapro, Aqualung, Apex, Zeagle. Unfortunately, not Dacor.

I am diving a Scubapro regulator I bought new in 1978. I have no problem getting it serviced, parts are readily available. My old dive buddy from back in the early 1980's owns a Dacor reg & BC from back then. I know of one shop in FL that *may* be able to service it. Maybe. But not bc Dacor supports them, simply due to the fact that when the buyout occured they had the foresight to buy all the spare parts they could find. Once those are gone, they're gone. My buddy is probably going to have to buy new gear.

For a new diver starting out, these are the cold, hard, nasty facts about this brand that they should be aware of before plunking down their cash.

Maybe some shops are getting good support from Dacor. Divers using those shops should not have any problems. The Dacor dealers in my area are not.

[SteveDiver]

I was unaware of the Dacor website issues etc. Well...no I would not advise to buy DACOR in light of the facts presented. I guess when my equipment gives out I will buy another brand. I can honestly say that I have had no issues with my equipment however if/when I do instead of fighting to get the warrenty recognized I will buy new. By then it will be time to get new anyway..

[Phil Mintz]

Hello to all,

I am the Director of Sales for Mares/Dacor Diving in the U.S. You are all correct about the current Dacor Website not functioning, it will be fixed in the future, but I do not have the exact time frame. While there have been many issues with the service and availability of parts for Dacor products, in the past six months (since I have taken over) many of the issues have been resolved including one of the main reasons for the issues, poor communication.

The HEAD company's other divisions have very high service levels and are known for being the most innovative within their categories (I have worked for HEAD for 15 years managing another division). It is unfortunate that this has not been the case with Dacor, but we are trying to move forward and correct. One of issues when Mares purchased Dacor, we moved production to our facility in Italy. Many of the parts suppliers for older Dacor products no longer produced these parts which made it impossible to repair products produced in 1999 or prior. We recently introduced a Reg upgrade program for older products (see release below) in order to address an issue that should have been addressed a few years ago.

While many of our dealers are only selling Mares products, we still have many good Dacor dealers. Any of the current products we sell can be serviced, and we honor our warranty on all of these products.

Phil

Mares/Dacor Diving Announces Dacor Regulator Upgrade Program



DACOR REGULATORS PRODUCED IN THE U.S. PRIOR TO THE YEAR 2000 MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR AN UPGRADE PROGRAM, SEE YOUR PARTICIPATING AUTHORIZED MARES/DACOR DEALER FOR DETAILS.



NORWALK, Conn. (August 1, 2005) MARES/DACOR Diving Division of HEAD USA will offer 4 options for consumers to upgrade their Dacor Regulators that were produced in the U.S. by the old Dacor manufacturer prior to it’s acquisition by Mares Diving in 1999.

Phil Mintz, Director of Sales and Marketing states “Unfortunately the parts suppliers for regulators produced by Dacor prior to our acquisition destroyed the molds when we moved production to our facility in Rapallo, Italy”. “In order to clarify which regulators can be serviced, a complete list has been sent to our Authorized Dealers along with the eligibility and required forms for the upgrade program”.

Consumers who qualify for the upgrade can choose from four options: two entry priced regulators (Dacor Eagle Sport or Mares MR12 Rebel) and two premium regulators (Dacor Eagle DPD or Mares Abyss 05). Details and pricing are available at participating Mares/Dacor Authorized Dealers. This program will be valid through September 30, 2006. Offer only valid in U.S. & Canada.

HEAD USA is part of the HEAD NV Group which is based in the Netherlands and listed on the New York and Vienna Stock exchanges. The HEAD NV Group is a worldwide sporting goods company that manufactures and markets products under the HEAD brand (racquet and winter sports), Penn (world’s #1 tennis ball and racquet ball brand), and Tyrolia (wintersports bindings), in addition to the three diving brands (Mares, Dacor and Sporasub). HEAD NV’s Chairman is Johan Eliasch.

The telephone number for the Diving Division is 203 855 0631; fax 203 866 9573; www.mares.com, www.divedacor.com, www.sporasubusa.com. For HEAD USA information, log onto www.head.com.

[undrwater]

Thanks, Phil for responding! I appreciate you taking time out to respond to us.

One recommendation I might make for the website...at least put up a "site under construction" page, and an email link for communication. This way people can at least see that there is some progress.

This would also give me some personal confidence that you are willing to respond to your customer's needs.

Is there a place to find a list of Dacor dealers that can perform the upgrade? Would this be the same as the Mares dealer list?

Thanks,
Russell

[Debraw]

Yes any Mares dealer can offer the trade-in. We are an Authroized dealer and we have the list of new regs you can trade it in for . One of them is the Mares Abyss the '05 model. Pretty good deal!

[Phil Mintz]

Russell,

Thank you, good suggestion I will try to get it fixed. As Debra states, any Authorized Mares or Dacor dealer can offer the upgrade.

Debra,

Thank you for jumping in, I am sorry we never got to meet on my last trip to TX, hopefully we can on my next trip. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or I can help.

Phil

[Debraw]

Not a problem Phil. I think the trade-in deal is an excellent idea. I hope people take advantage of it. We are certainly excited about it! Mares/Dacor could have done absolutely nothing but they didn't, they are trying to make it right. I for one as a retailer say, thank you.

[scubapro50]

can you provide more details .... I might be insterested in the Abyss for $180 ... what are the requirements of the program ? I have 3 Dacor 360's I purchased for the wife and kids that I might want to trade up. How about the octs purchased ? Do they count and do we get a allowance for them also ?

[undrwater]

Yes any Mares dealer can offer the trade-in. We are an Authroized dealer and we have the list of new regs you can trade it in for . One of them is the Mares Abyss the '05 model. Pretty good deal!

It's not supposed to be a deal is it? It seems more like a peace offering. As Phil mentioned, there were communication problems within Dacor, and the customers suffered. Hopefully customers who have felt burned as a result of this communication problem will value this offering.

Phil: I noticed there is no page up as yet...I believe this to be critical.

Are the Mares/Dacor dealers/shops informing their customers of the trade-up option? I haven't seen any advertising yet.

Either way, it's nice to see this kind of resolution taking place.

[scubapro50]

I have already contacted a dive shop that carries the Mares/Dacor line to arrange a trade up ...... three dacor 360's for three Abysses .... The offer from Mares/Dacor does go a long way to help improve their "tarnish" image. I have been very vocal about how I felt about their service and parts policy for older regulators. I'm willing now to give them another try and will report on the results later by updating previous posts.

[Debraw]

Maybe you could say a "deal" or maybe not. I think I just meant that as an add on to my post. You know just something I said. Anyway Yes it is an option and a n peace offering for people with the older model regs. Do you have one you want to trade in? I can help you. Just let me know.

[QUOTE=undrwater]It's not supposed to be a deal is it? It seems more like a peace offering. As Phil mentioned, there were communication problems within Dacor, and the customers suffered. Hopefully customers who have felt burned as a result of this communication problem will value this offering."

[jonnythan]

Phil, thanks for the information.

I personally would like to see Dacor make a comeback to being one of the premier names in the industry. It seems that there's a bit of a way to go before you can reestablish a reputation for excellent products and service, but it shouldn't be impossible.

Best of luck.

[Phil Mintz]

All,

I appreciate your responses. The release was sent to many Dive publications as well as all dealers. Naturally a dealer can choose to "participate or not", but most will. In two weeks we have already had a great response. In order to not "miss" anyone it will run for 13 months, one full cycle.

We cannot fix every issue in a few weeks nor change the past, but I assure you my team is working eveyday to become "the best company to do business with".

I personally do not like to call the upgrade a "deal" or a "peace offering". Rather it is a good policy to service customers who have not been serviced well in the past. This is all just symantics, but the bottom line is customer service.

Thanks,

Phil

[BrianS]

Where can we find a current list of Dacor/Mares authorized dealers?

[undrwater]

I personally do not like to call the upgrade a "deal" or a "peace offering". Rather it is a good policy to service customers who have not been serviced well in the past. This is all just symantics, but the bottom line is customer service.



Yeah...I like that verbiage better than mine! :D

I don't have any Dacor regs...but just recently purchased a Dacor BCD, and it comforts me knowing that parts will be available for it down the road.

[Phil Mintz]

The www.mares.com site has a dealer locator that is working, but not fully listing all dealer. It will be correct by end of Sept.

You can also call our customer service department and they can give you an LDS near you. 800-874-3236

Phil

[Xizang]

Phil,
Scubaworld here in the Philippines has started to put all Dacor brands on sale at very very very discounted prices but no one is buying them because everyone is quite certain the brand will no longer exist. I have 2 Dacor Fury adjustables and currently trying dispose them because of fear that parts will no longer be available for them in the near future. I don't think Scubaworld will be doing the upgrade program so what can be my or other divers here in the Philippines options will be?
thank you

[Debraw]

What was the year it was manufactured? If it is 1999 or older then I can help you if you want to mail it to me in the US.

[Phil Mintz]

Axua,

The Dacor brand is not going away. The distributor in the Philippines may be closing out his inventory or he may not be pushing the brand, but that is his choice.

As Debra stated, if your reg was produced in 2000 +, parts are availible.

The upgrade is only offered to US & Canadian customers throught our dealers as these were sold by the US. I suggest you first find out if they have parts and if they can be serviced. If not, go to your local dealer were they were purchased and I am sure they can accomodate you in some way.

Phil

[tzeyap]

Axua,

The Dacor brand is not going away. The distributor in the Philippines may be closing out his inventory or he may not be pushing the brand, but that is his choice.

As Debra stated, if your reg was produced in 2000 +, parts are availible.

The upgrade is only offered to US & Canadian customers throught our dealers as these were sold by the US. I suggest you first find out if they have parts and if they can be serviced. If not, go to your local dealer were they were purchased and I am sure they can accomodate you in some way.

Phil


Phil,

Why is the upgrade programme restricted to only customers in the US and Canada ?
Dacor sold equipment worldwide to purchasers outside North America. Are these who purchased Dacor and paid good money; often more than their fellow divers in North America not worth or entitled to customer service ?

My impression is that you have not bothered to address the query raised by Axua or paid any attention to the obligations and concern of Dacor to their international customers such as those in the Phillipines. There appears no change in attitude which I personally experienced when I contacted Dacor three times and did not get a single acknowledgement or response.

I am not convinced that this latest appeasement to angry customers in North America is a serious change in attitude. Real commitment to customer service ought to be a global policy to all customers and not just a segment of customers. The cynic in me would suspect that this is an attempt to stem erosion of total group customer base than a real and long-term commitment to customer service.

I was a die-hard supporter of Dacor and even now still keep my 'dead' Dacor equipment due to fond and sentimental reasons. I hope you can kick out the cynic in me but I am not optimistic.

[scubapro50]

The program was not quite what I wanted either. My family has owned and used Dacor products for over 30 years. It's really upsetting that I have to "trade up" to a new regulator at a cost of $300 to replace one I now own that is working perfectly good. Don't get me wrong ...... I'm doing the trade because I know sooner or later my current regulators (Dacor 360's) will not be serviceable. I would like to have seen DACOR/MARES send out letters to all registered owners of their older "lifetime" regulators to offer a "free" exchange or at least one at or below DACOR cost. I know that there are a lot of Dacor regulators out there that were not purchased new with the "lifetime" parts and service warranty but Dacor should make "special" considerations for loyal customers who tried to play by their rules before they changed the game. ************************************************** ***************************** HEY PHIL : how about an additional rebate program for the above mentioned original "registered" owners of the forementioned "lifetime" warranted regulators ? ************************************************** ************************************************** *****************************

[Phil Mintz]

tzeyap,

I am sorry that you feel we are not addressing the issue, I disagree. In the first three weeks we have received an extremely positive response. Many dealers and consumers have expressed a positive opinion of this program. When you state you contacted Dacor three times, where did you call? Did you speak to anyone personally? If this was simply an appeasment program, I would not be on here answering consumers who disagree (which they have a right to).

When I told Axua to contact the place of purchase, it is because the dealer and distributor of the product in that region should service him. I am servicing North America and simply cannot service and ship regulators all over the world. This is why we have distributors in many parts of the world. This is no different than any other global company. Ex; If I bought a Nikon camera in Germany, it would not be covered under a U.S. warranty.

[Xizang]

Hi Phil,
I actually do not know when my regulator was manufactured as I do not have the manuals and other documentation of it. Anyway I'm sure your company is trying its best to address all of this concerns. I will still be disposing my Dacor regulators in exchange for Scubapro regs again because of the fear that there will come a time that parts will no longer be available (yes I know there are still parts available for it NOW but my concern is 5 to 10 years from now).

The Dacor brand here in the Philippines is being avoided like the plague again because of everyone's impression that the company is folding up. I think you are right Scubaworld here is pushing the Mares brand and trying to flush out the dacor lines.

[fishoutawater]

Phil, my Dacor reg says "formula" on the front of the second stage.
Do you have any idea when it was made? And would this reg qualify for the upgrade?
And can you say about how much this upgrade is going to cost me?
I'm not the original owner, and if I do have the original warranty agreement, I have no idea where it would be.

[Tunez]

At first when I was reading this I was getting ready to take the Darwin Air computers I just bought back and trade them for something else. After reading further and seeing that a Director of the department is here personally answering question, I do feel a bit better. I do have one question for you Phil since I can't get on a website. Does the Darwin Air Integrated computer allow you to switch over to standard time instead of military time? The manual is VERY breif on many of the things it goes through and actually the "figures" and images shown do not match what the computer does in some cases. I can clarify further if needed.

[Phil Mintz]

Tunez & Fishoutawater,

I was out of office today and will be out most of Thurs. Will get back to both of your questions by end of Thursday or Friday morning.

Regards,

Phil

[Tunez]

Thanks Phil, I will be awaiting your response.

[Phil Mintz]

Thanks Phil, I will be awaiting your response.

The Darwin Air only shows time in 24hr format. I will confirm with the engineers, but I believe this is the case.

The intent on the Dacor upgrade was to offer to customers who are still under warranty, but we have been accepting older models also and will accpet yours.

There are 4 models being offered from $129 - $299. Your dealer can give you the details.

Phil

[Whitelightnin]

All,

I appreciate your responses. The release was sent to many Dive publications as well as all dealers.
Phil

Sorry Phil, but this statement is not correct. I am a dealer for Dacor/Mares & I have not recieved one single piece of info from you guys concerning this "trade in program". In fact, since I bought the dive shop almost two years ago, I have not recieved ANY correspondance of ANY kind unless it was something I specifically called & asked about. I have not been impressed with the dealer service I have recieved either. Also, before you ask, I have called & complained about this three times. No one has even bothered to call me back.

The previous owner of the shop sold Dacor for almost 20 years. Guess what brand most people have around here. Now, I can't even get a phone call form you guys. I have decided that I will sell something that has some support with it. I have picked up the Sherwood/Genesis line as well as Dive Rite, Bare & Deep Sea Supply. You guys have missed out on about $150,000.00 worth or orders this summer. I realise that is not a lot to you but since HEAD doesn't seem concerned enough to return my phone calls, it is one way for me to express my displeasure.

Also, I realise that I am posting this in an open forum. The way I figure it, I gave you guys at least three chances to take care of it privately but you weren't interested.

James Crowell
Broken Bow Scuba

[Tunez]

Although it sounds that you had bad luck, I would say it doesn't make them a bad company. I confirmed with my LDS Saturday and he was very well informed about the trade in deal and I am going to stick with my Darwin Air Integrated computer even still because they still make my parts. My guess is that you had the luck that we all sometimes have and you got in touch with the wrong people. Give the man a chance and maybe even send an email or private correspondence and see what he can do for you. The only people that "lost out" in the end are your customers by not having a wider variety to choose from. I hope that your luck goes better in the near future because the more well stocked LDS's, the better for the end users.

[Tunez]

BTW, Phil, thanks for the reply. Do you have the model numbers that are being offered in the trade?

[Whitelightnin]

Although it sounds that you had bad luck, I would say it doesn't make them a bad company. I confirmed with my LDS Saturday and he was very well informed about the trade in deal and I am going to stick with my Darwin Air Integrated computer even still because they still make my parts. My guess is that you had the luck that we all sometimes have and you got in touch with the wrong people. Give the man a chance and maybe even send an email or private correspondence and see what he can do for you. The only people that "lost out" in the end are your customers by not having a wider variety to choose from. I hope that your luck goes better in the near future because the more well stocked LDS's, the better for the end users.


Ahhh...was this statement directed to me? I wanted to ask before I replyed.
James

[Whitelightnin]

Although it sounds that you had bad luck, I would say it doesn't make them a bad company. I confirmed with my LDS Saturday and he was very well informed about the trade in deal and I am going to stick with my Darwin Air Integrated computer even still because they still make my parts. My guess is that you had the luck that we all sometimes have and you got in touch with the wrong people. Give the man a chance and maybe even send an email or private correspondence and see what he can do for you. The only people that "lost out" in the end are your customers by not having a wider variety to choose from. I hope that your luck goes better in the near future because the more well stocked LDS's, the better for the end users.

OK. No answer yet so I'm assuming this is to me.

I never said they were a bad company, just NO dealer support TO ME. I don't know about other dealers.

Bad luck??? Bad luck might be one non returned call. REALLY bad luck might be two non returned calls. But three non returned calls ABOUT THE SAME THING.... No luck involved there. That is just bad customer service, Plain & Simple.

Phil might be the nicest guy in the world. I don't know as I have never met him. However, even if he is, he is not the one who deals with the dealers every day when we call in. If the ones we deal with are not helpful AND not trained well enough to get us to someone who is, it won't make any difference how nice he is.

Here are a few of my gripes.

I made a few calls to HEAD asking about getting on the mailing list so I could keep up with what's going on there.
Each time I was assured that I was on the list.
Great, except I have never recieved anything from them concerning what's going on.

I made THREE calls to complain about not getting anything from them. The first time, I told whoever answered the phone in "customer service" what the problem was & asked to have a supervisor return my call as I was not having any luck at that level.
NO CALL.
The second time I called, I again explained my problem & also explained that I had requested a supervisor return my call but no one had. I again asked for a supervisor to return my call.
NO CALL.
The third time, I explained that no one was returning my calls & asked to have ANYONE who could help me PLEASE return my call.
NO CALL.

Also, I had a diver from Dallas (4 hours away from here) who came into my shop with a BRAND NEW Mares computer that had a leak at the hose crimp. He had made his first dive with that computer here in the lake that morning. This was on a Saturday. The leak was IN the crimp, not at the connection. Bad hose. Nothing to do but replace it. I pulled a Dacor console out of my display cabinet & replaced his hose for him. I did not charge him as I was sure a BRAND NEW computer would be under warranty. On Monday, I called Dacor & told them what had happened & that I wanted to have them send me a replacement hose. I was told that I would have to pay for sending the hose to them & IF IT WAS COVERED, they would pay to send the new one to me. I explained that the customer had bought the computer in Dallas & that I had not made any profit on the sale of the computer. I also did not charge the customer for my labor to replace the hose. I also now had a console that I could not sell until I got a new hose for it. I did what I did in the interest of good customer relations.

TOO BAD!!! Our policy is that we don't pay for shipping on warranty items to us.

Also, I need to have the customer send in a copy of his sales reciept showing where he bought the computer. GREAT! Now I have to TRY to track the customer (whom I had never seen before & didn't have even his name) down IN DALLAS (4 hours from here) & get a copy of his sales reciept. RIGHT!!! I sent the hose in WITHOUT a copy of his reciept & I DID PAY SHIPPING to get it there. STILL WAITING.........So far, no one has bothered to call me about it. I'll order a hose from Trident & chalk it up to "Dacor experience".

Next, I have a customer come in who has a "lifetime warranty" on his regulator. He wants it serviced & has kept up with his warranty card & has had it serviced every year. Can't get parts for it. I call Dacor & explain the situation.
Them : "Sorry, we don't have those parts in stock. "
Me : "OK. what should I tell the customer"
Them : "Tell him we no longer support regulators made before the buyout."
Me : "But he has a lifetime warranty."
Them : "Sorry, we don't have parts for that model in stock."
Me : "So now what?"
Them : " He can buy a new Viper regulator. That is our current model."
Me : " OK. How much?"
Them : "XXX.XX (full dealer cost)"
Me : "Oh, he'll really appreciate that. Please see if you can do anything better & get back to me."

I explain the situation to the customer. Yep, He REALLY appreciates THAT!
I offer to sell him a Sherwood that I had just got in for myself at "Key Man" price (that is lower that dealer cost). He accepts & leaves happy with me and he REALLY APPRECIATES Dacor.
(Still have not heard back from Dacor.)

And now, they have a "program" for this situation but STILL don't bother to let me know about it.

Also, every time I order parts, half of them are out of stock.

How in the world am I supposed to make a living trying to work around service like that???

And as far as my customers that "lost out", they NOW DO have a wider variety to choose from. They have Dacor (sort of), Sherwood, Genesis, Bare, Dive Rite, Deep Sea Supply, Deep Sea (not the same as Deep Sea Supply), Scuba Max and IST.

James

[Tunez]

Wow, sounds like tons of bad luck and I didn't mean to imply that anything was wrong with what you said. My whole take on this and IIRC, Phil has just taken over his particular department and being that there was a buyout, problems are to be expected. I was concerned about my Darwin Air Integrated computer that I had just bought but I feel a little better now that the Director of Sales and Marketing is at least on here fielding questions. Basically all I meant to you was to possibly use him as a resource to get what should have been done for the first time done right now. Send him a Private message and hopefully he can get you on the right track. I think everyone here has been through there own string of bad luck with something or another in their life and gotten through it. Hopefully, like I said, everything will work out well for you and Dacor soon.

[undrwater]

Well! Dacor web placeholder is up!! Thanks Phil!

There is a recall notice on the site for Darwin console and air computers.

There are contact numbers up on the site.

@Whitelightnin: are these the numbers you had contacted before? If not, maybe you can get a better response from these.

Here's the website: http://www.divedacor.com/

@Phil: please don't let it get to December before the REAL website is put in place.

[Bill51]

I have no idea how long ago those computers listed for recall have been on the market, but I think with the problems Dacor has been having with customer service I’d be pretty upset having to be without a computer for 4-6 weeks. Do they pay interest on the money I’ve invested that I’m not getting any benefit from?

I’ve got 3 Dacor Extreme Plus regulators that are working fine, and go very well for a couple years between service so I figure if I can get one more service cycle out of them I’ll be money ahead to wait until they die and buy something new then. The trade up cost to get a new regulator seems a little high to me given what I can buy a new regulator from a company that might be more dedicated to scuba diving than from a division of a company more interested in snow skis and tennis rackets.

So sad because I’ve loved all my Dacor equipment over the years.

[scubapro50]

I have no idea how long ago those computers listed for recall have been on the market, but I think with the problems Dacor has been having with customer service I’d be pretty upset having to be without a computer for 4-6 weeks. Do they pay interest on the money I’ve invested that I’m not getting any benefit from?

I’ve got 3 Dacor Extreme Plus regulators that are working fine, and go very well for a couple years between service so I figure if I can get one more service cycle out of them I’ll be money ahead to wait until they die and buy something new then. The trade up cost to get a new regulator seems a little high to me given what I can buy a new regulator from a company that might be more dedicated to scuba diving than from a division of a company more interested in snow skis and tennis rackets.

So sad because I’ve loved all my Dacor equipment over the years.
The Mares Abyss is one of the best regulators being made today (a "testors' choice" from Scuba Magazine June 2005) The list price on it is over $500 and shopping around you can find it at LeasurePro discounted for $449.00 ....... so an exchange price of $299 is not really that bad. yes there have been lots of problems with parts and service for the dacor line but on the other hand no real problems with the Mares line of products. Do yourself a favor and trade up before it's too late .....

[Whitelightnin]

“Unfortunately the parts suppliers for regulators produced by Dacor prior to our acquisition destroyed the molds when we moved production to our facility in Rapallo, Italy”.

The ONLY way I see this happening is if HEAD made a specific decision NOT to support those regulators & NOT to buy parts from the parts suppliers.

Phil's statement doesn't state WHY the parts suppliers "destroyed the molds", that had to be the case. In and of it's self, there is nothing wrong with that decision. I understand that it was a BUSINESS decision and not all business decisions are popular.
But, PLEASE, don't try to blame the problem on the parts suppliers.

On the other hand, not having a plan in place to address the conciquences of that decision constitutes a lack of planning. In the business world, that can get you in trouble.

As far as WHY Dacor doesn't want to talk to me, well...... maybe I did just slip through the cracks. But , come on guys, look at my post above. THAT'S A BIG CRACK!!! How many more dealers out there are in my shoes? Makes me wonder.

James

[Phil Mintz]

All,

As far as the Dacor recall, all dealers and consumers who purchased this were notified and the computers we are currently selling have are not under the recall.

The regs that are offered under the upgrade are Mares Abyss, Mares MR12 Rebel, Dacor Pro DPD & Dacor Eagle Sport.

Phil

[Phil Mintz]

James,

I am sorry you have had these issues, I can tell you they are not typical of our business today. I usually make it policy to not discuss an accounts business in public, but you have asked, so I will answer.

I have not looked into when you took over this shop, but aside from some parts we shipped this month, we have not sold anything to this account since 3rd quarter 2003. I do not dispute the issue you had on the phone, if you say it happened I believe you. However, did you get a name of the person you spoke to? Can you tell me when these calls occured? Our customer service manager (Nick Sellers) speaks with many dealers and consumers, if he or I received a message, you would have received a call. That is why I am asking who you spoke with.

It was nice of you to replace the hose, but I do stand behind the shipping comments. Any product under warranty (from any company) must be sent back to the company for replacement. We do not pay for shipping everytime someone needs to send something back.

I do not know why you have not received our mailings, the upgrade was not the only one we have sent to dealers, it may be that you are not coming out in the mailing list due to the fact that we have not done business in the past two calendar years. That can easily be fixed.

We would certainly like to change your opinion of us and build a good relationship, if you are interested please let me know and I will have a sales representative contact you. If you would like for me to contact you personally, I certainly will

Phil

[Whitelightnin]

James,


I have not looked into when you took over this shop, but aside from some parts we shipped this month, we have not sold anything to this account since 3rd quarter 2003. I do not dispute the issue you had on the phone, if you say it happened I believe you. However, did you get a name of the person you spoke to? Can you tell me when these calls occured? Our customer service manager (Nick Sellers) speaks with many dealers and consumers, if he or I received a message, you would have received a call. That is why I am asking who you spoke with.

It was nice of you to replace the hose, but I do stand behind the shipping comments. Any product under warranty (from any company) must be sent back to the company for replacement. We do not pay for shipping everytime someone needs to send something back.

I do not know why you have not received our mailings, the upgrade was not the only one we have sent to dealers, it may be that you are not coming out in the mailing list due to the fact that we have not done business in the past two calendar years. That can easily be fixed.

We would certainly like to change your opinion of us and build a good relationship, if you are interested please let me know and I will have a sales representative contact you. If you would like for me to contact you personally, I certainly will

Phil

Phil,
Do you guys keep a phone log? If so, check it & see how many times I have called during the past two years. You will find PLENTY (as in A BUNCH). I have NO IDEA whom I talked to. All I know was it was people in customer service.

As far as the mailing list, I called a few times over the first year or so, after I bought the shop, asking to be put on the mailing list. Each time, I was assured that I was on it. Still, nothing came.
When I bought the shop, the previous owner had PLENTY of stock so I didn't NEED to order anything for a while. I did make several calls getting everything switched over to my name & the new address.
After the problems I had during last season, would YOU have ordered anything from you guys this year if you were me?

The computer was a Mares MC1, not a Dacor, but what difference does that make? It was the hose connected to the SPG that was defective.Suppose you were the customer who just bought a brand new computer & had traveled 4 hours from home for the weekend to dive. You make your first dive & have to call the dive because the hose is defective. You take it to the local Mares/Dacor dealer who tells you

"It should be covered under warranty but you will have to send it back to the Mfg. to get it fixed. I realise that you are 4 hours from home, wanting to dive with friends for the weekend but please understand that you didn't buy it from me. I have not made anything from you buying it. In order to fix it NOW, I will have to pull a hose from one of MY consoles in the display counter, use MY time & labor to fix it, have a console of MINE out of commission for "God only knows how long" while waiting on a replacement hose, hope & pray that you will find & send me your sales reciept AND I HAVE TO PAY TO SHIP THE HOSE BACK TO THE COMPANY. And you expect this ALL FOR FREE just because I am a Mares/Dacor dealer!!!"

What would you think? Yes, I would be pissed off too. But instead, I did the above to preserve the customer's image of Mares/Dacor. I have never seen the guy before & will probally never see him again. He bought absolutely NOTHING from my shop. All I asked in return was to replace the hose & pick up the 4 dollar shipping on the hose.
Instead, I get "It was NICE of you to replace the hose".
I still have a console I can't sell sitting on my back shelf waiting on a hose. I'm still out 4 dollars. I still haven't been paid for my time or labor.

I have not heard from my sales rep since I bought the shop. You have my phone #. You have my email. You have my address (remember, I'm on the mailing list). You have my SEVERAL requests & complaints. Please explain this to me.

And why in the world are you ASKING me if I want you to have a sales rep contact me? If I have a customer that I find out is having a problem, no matter HOW I find it out, The FIRST THING I'm going to do is get on the phone & try to FIX THE PROBLEM. The worst thing I could do is ignore the problem hoping it will "go away". Yes, it might just go away but it will DAMN sure take the customer with it. Companies spend BILLIONS of dollars every year trying to attract new customers only to run them off with bad service. That is total stupidity.

AND I STILL DON'T HAVE ANY INFO ON YOUR DAMN TRADE IN PROGRAM!!!


James

[Wayward Son]

Your not the only shop so ignored. One I trade with did not change hands recently, the same owners have been there for many, many years, and were Dacor dealers long before the buyout.

They have told me similar things about an utter, almost absolute lack of support from Dacor.

[Xizang]

Wow. Dacor is treading on a very thin line here before it has completely destroyed its brand equity and its not even about product performance but probably just a "glitch" on the business process and organization.

[Tunez]

I just bought 2 of the Darwin Air Integrated computers and two of their masks and will be happy to buy from them in the future. Many companies have stumbles along the way and sometimes it works out best in the end for the consumer. Many times it can lead to even better products at reduced prices in order to combat a problem. Kind of like the Food Lion grocery stores a while back with the big meat scare they had. Their stocks DROPPED way down everybody thought that was the end for them. They came back big and now even have a second chain of "higher end" stores now called Bloom. Hopefully Dacor will do them same and lead to good things from them.

[scubapro50]

Wow. Dacor is treading on a very thin line here before it has completely destroyed its brand equity and its not even about product performance but probably just a "glitch" on the business process and organization.
("the rumor of my death is highly exaggerated" ..... MARK TWAIN) That may apply to the new company formed when Head Sports purchased Dacor. Everyone loved the old Dacor Corporation ... but toward the end it was mismanaged and produced a lot of products which did not live up to expections. Mares/Dacor still have a way to go to iron out the rough spots but their new exchange program for old Dacor regulators made before 2000 is a good step in the right direction.

[Vtdiver2]

("the rumor of my death is highly exaggerated" ..... MARK TWAIN) That may apply to the new company formed when Head Sports purchased Dacor. Everyone loved the old Dacor Corporation ... but toward the end it was mismanaged and produced a lot of products which did not live up to expections. Mares/Dacor still have a way to go to iron out the rough spots but their new exchange program for old Dacor regulators made before 2000 is a good step in the right direction.
Scubapro50, how can you say their exchange program is a good one??? Have you REALLY looked into it? They are offering you regulators for what LDS are selling them for already, on the condition you turn in your old DACOR reg. HOW IS THAT A GOOD PROGRAM???
If you want proof, go to scubatoys.com, look up the price of an ABYSS. They are selling it for $399. Now go to DACOR's trade in program and see what they are offering that same reg to you for....just take a guess....yeah, same price.
This program reeks, and I can't believe anyone would defend it and say it's a "step in the right direction"

[scubapro50]

Scubapro50, how can you say their exchange program is a good one??? Have you REALLY looked into it? They are offering you regulators for what LDS are selling them for already, on the condition you turn in your old DACOR reg. HOW IS THAT A GOOD PROGRAM???
If you want proof, go to scubatoys.com, look up the price of an ABYSS. They are selling it for $399. Now go to DACOR's trade in program and see what they are offering that same reg to you for....just take a guess....yeah, same price.
This program reeks, and I can't believe anyone would defend it and say it's a "step in the right direction"
("Just give me the facts" ..... quote from Joe Friday in DRAGNET) lets get your facts straight ..... (1) retail for the Mares Abyss (05) is over $500 (2) discount retailers are selling it for $449.00 (LeasurePro) (3) the price ScubaToys has placed on it is $299.00 WITH EXCHANGE ..... otherwise it's $449.00 to match LeasurePro w/o a trade in ...... there are several Abyss models out there .... the trade in is for the current (05) model which was tested by Scuba Magazine in June of this year and was rated "TESTERS' CHOICE" due to it's high performance scores. In last years Abyss model the second stage is different and I have found it for $399.00 several places ....... SO FOR $299.00 YOU GET A 2005 MODEL (WITH WARRANTY) for at least $150.00 cheaper than you could without exchange.

[fishoutawater]

Scubapro50, that's the way my lds explained it to me. Seems like a pretty good deal, getting 150 bucks off on a reg retailing for $449. Especially since my Dacor reg is so old. It's says "formula" on the second stage, and I can't find any info at all on the thing, so it must be pretty old.
I kinda like the Flash Gordon looks of that Abyss '05, if looks really mattered. I've read that it performs really well though.
But I'm still worried about getting it serviced.
Can my local lds service the thing? Or do I have to send it off? And if I have to send it off, where does it go? Italy?
And I'm not sure what the warranty covers, parts, labor, shipping?

[scubatoys]

Warranty covers parts. Any authorized Mares dealer can do the service for you, but they can charge whatever they want for the labor end. In our shop, we charge $39.95 if purchased from us... but your mileage may vary. ;)

[Marek K]

Warranty covers parts. Any authorized Mares dealer can do the service for you, but they can charge whatever they want for the labor end. In our shop, we charge $39.95 if purchased from us... but your mileage may vary. ;)
Larry, we had the Mares parts/labor discussion a couple months ago here (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=102287&page=3&pp=10&highlight=mares+warranty+parts+labor), with Phil Mintz's participation. In post #25, Phil said that the Mares warranty covers parts and labor, if the defective equipment is brought in to an authorized dealer... who then apparently has to send it in to Mares, wherever that is.

Do you mean to say that if the customer wants a warranty repair done faster, at the authorized shop, then he/she has to pay for the labor?

--Marek

[scubatoys]

Larry, we had the Mares parts/labor discussion a couple months ago here (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=102287&page=3&pp=10&highlight=mares+warranty+parts+labor), with Phil Mintz's participation. In post #25, Phil said that the Mares warranty covers parts and labor, if the defective equipment is brought in to an authorized dealer... who then apparently has to send it in to Mares, wherever that is.

Do you mean to say that if the customer wants a warranty repair done faster, at the authorized shop, then he/she has to pay for the labor?

--Marek


Ok... maybe I didn't read the questions in the post properly.

Fishoutawater said: "But I'm still worried about getting it serviced."

If something is defective... ie- out of the box the hose leaks, the ip is wrong, etc, or something that is a warranty issue like that crops up... Any dealer can take care of it, or it can be sent to Mares. I was talking about annual service... A reg rebuild - then the shop charges what they want for that labor. Excuse me if I read this wrong.

[Whitelightnin]

Larry, we had the Mares parts/labor discussion a couple months ago here (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=102287&page=3&pp=10&highlight=mares+warranty+parts+labor), with Phil Mintz's participation. In post #25, Phil said that the Mares warranty covers parts and labor, if the defective equipment is brought in to an authorized dealer... who then apparently has to send it in to Mares, wherever that is.

Do you mean to say that if the customer wants a warranty repair done faster, at the authorized shop, then he/she has to pay for the labor?

--Marek

Marek,
Thanks for pointing out that thread. I did notice that Phil was participating in the thread. Phil posted the statement below;



Mares is the final responsible party for it's warranty, we do not exclude (as a business decision) warranty performance as a condition of Authorized Dealer Agreement. It is a requirement as well as complying to Federal Trade Commission Product Warranties Act.

That being said, if a dealer does not honor warranty, we can terminate their agreement, but in fairness to all: It must be reported to us, we need to investigate to determine who, why, when etc...

Yes, if the customer ships the product to us they are responsible for shipping.

A product under warranty can be serviced by any dealer. A new product that (or used 1-3 times) that may have a defect can also be serviced by any dealer. Typically it is brought to the place of purchase. Yes, there are exceptions when you are traveling.

I cannot give you one blanket answer if a product is purchased at one dealer and brought to another for a possible defect, there are too many variables and it must be determined on each case. I also cannot tell you how every dealer is going to respond to having a consumer walk in their door with a product purchased "down the block".

I hope I have naswered your questions, if not let me know.

It is my understanding that ALL authorized dealers MUST honor the warranty if they wish to remain an authorized dealer for Mares/Dacor. In the case of the bad hose (posted above), I did what I thought was right & what I would have wanted done if I were in the customers shoes.

I did notice that ,although Phil was participating in the thread, it was dropped & there was NO REPLY to the last post which was a direct question to Phil.


I must have missed the post that indicates who pays the labor. If the reg was "repaired" at a facility other than the shop where the reg was sold, who pays for the labor? Should the non-selling shop be expected to do the labor for free? Does the manufacturer reimburse the repair facility? If so, how is the fee determined? Several posts compare autos to regs. I believe the manufaturer does reimburse the dealer that does the repair work.

which asks, basically, the same thing as your post above. I will be interested to see the response to this question.


I STILL DON'T HAVE THE DETAILS OF THE TRADE IN PROGRAM even though, by Phil's own post, I am in their database. Would one of you other Mares/Dacor dealers be so kind as to PM me with those details since I can't seem get them from Dacor, even though ...



That can easily be fixed.

Phil


James

[Whitelightnin]

PRAISE THE LORD!!! I got the hose from Dacor. No refund on the shipping. No payment for my time. No payment for my labor. No "Thank you for taking care of our good name".
AND....Still no details on the trade in program.

James

[Whitelightnin]

THANK YOU to the VERY nice dealer who faxed me the trade in details. It is MUCHLY appreciated.

I don't know how you managed to get your fax machine to work but you might want to call Dacor & offer to teach them how it's done. :)

James

[Phil Mintz]

James,

In many conversations with dealers, some on these boards I have clearly acknowledged the issues that Dacor has had. Have some Dacor dealers been "lost" when we integrated the company into Mares? Yes, due to our fault, Yes. Have we addressed many issues in the six months I have been here, Yes. Can we turn around 5 years in six months, no. Most people (dealers and consumers) that I have spoken to have responded in a positive manner. Clearly you have not been taken care of, but let's be honest. While we may not have done the job supporting you, you state you have called here multiple times, requested to be on a the mailing list etc. Yet you never have asked for the name of the person you spoke to (all CSR's give their name when they answer the phone). You have asked for a supervisor to call you yet you never asked to speak directly or for a name of one, you never asked to be transferred to the head of the company. While the bad service is not your fault, when you run into a wall, sometimes it is better to step to the side and open the door instead of continuing to run into the wall.

Your business is something we have to earn and our sales representatives have obviously not done the job since no one has called on you, but when you state you had two years of inventory when you bought the store, we should all remember this is a business. If your customers do not buy from you for two years you will not be around in year three. Our sales representative should have helped you with your inventory, but even thought they did not you should have insisted that the company assist.

In the end I do not feel going back and forth on a chat board will result in anything positive for either of us (except for some entertainment value of the others). I will personally call you to work out our issues. Whether we end up doing business together or not, at least we can have a discussion and hopefully clear the air.



Phil

[Whitelightnin]

Yet you never have asked for the name of the person you spoke to (all CSR's give their name when they answer the phone). You have asked for a supervisor to call you yet you never asked to speak directly or for a name of one, you never asked to be transferred to the head of the company.

Phil

Yes, they give their name. NOPE, I can't remember it for more that 3 seconds. That is why I call my wife "Honey" and "Pretty Lady". I forgot her name years ago. :) Well....You get the picture.



but when you state you had two years of inventory when you bought the store
Phil

Sorry, I NEVER said that. What I said was that when I bought the store, the previous owner had PLENTY & I didn't need to order any FOR AWHILE.

If you reread my post, you will see that I asked you if you had had the service that I had during my first season, would YOU have ordered from you guys?
I had enough inventory to get me most of the way through the first summer. After the service I recieved, I decided to just pick up another line or two of products. I also said that you missed out on about $150,000 in sales this season.



While the bad service is not your fault, when you run into a wall, sometimes it is better to step to the side and open the door instead of continuing to run into the wall.

Our sales representative should have helped you with your inventory, but even thought they did not you should have insisted that the company assist.

Phil

This is very true. However, that is one of my major faults. I believe it is up to YOU to keep my business. I should not have to BEG to get service from you. I figure that if my business is no more important than that, there are PLENTY of companies out there that would LOVE to have a shot at it.



One more thing, I noticed that you totally ignored ALL of the questions above asked by Marek K ond OkieDiver. Please respond to those questions.

Thanks

James

[Phil Mintz]

Yes, they give their name. NOPE, I can't remember it for more that 3 seconds. That is why I call my wife "Honey" and "Pretty Lady". I forgot her name years ago. :) Well....You get the picture.



Sorry, I NEVER said that. What I said was that when I bought the store, the previous owner had PLENTY & I didn't need to order any FOR AWHILE.

If you reread my post, you will see that I asked you if you had had the service that I had during my first season, would YOU have ordered from you guys?
I had enough inventory to get me most of the way through the first summer. After the service I recieved, I decided to just pick up another line or two of products. I also said that you missed out on about $150,000 in sales this season.



This is very true. However, that is one of my major faults. I believe it is up to YOU to keep my business. I should not have to BEG to get service from you. I figure that if my business is no more important than that, there are PLENTY of companies out there that would LOVE to have a shot at it.



One more thing, I noticed that you totally ignored ALL of the questions above asked by Marek K ond OkieDiver. Please respond to those questions.

Thanks

James

James,

I called your store this morning, you were not in. They told me you would be in this afternoon, so I will call you in a few minutes. They did not seem to want to take a message.

Marek's question was to Larry, I have corresponded with him in the past and answered this already. . Either way, if a product is defective it should be sent back to the company. If a product is under warranty, we cover parts, not labor. This is stated in our policy. I think you will find the labor policy to be similar with most diving companies.

I spoke with our Sales Representative, Rick Golden. His recollection of his first visit to your store (after you bought it from Russ and Dana) was quite clear regarding your intentions on doing business with us. You did state "plenty" and "awhile", but what I said is also correct, it has been "two years".

Dailing you now.

Phil

[Scuba]

I thought we had clarified some of these issues.


Marek's question was to Larry, I have corresponded with him in the past and answered this already. . Either way, if a product is defective it should be sent back to the company. If a product is under warranty, we cover parts, not labor. This is stated in our policy. I think you will find the labor policy to be similar with most diving companies.
Phil

Please post the warranty policy referenced stipulating labor is not covered.

Quote from previously mentioned thread: :http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=102287&page=1&pp=10&highlight=mares+warranty+parts+labor


Yes, if the reg is defective Mares will cover the entire cost. Any Authorized dealer or consumer (we prefer you go through the dealer) can send it back to us for repair or replacement. I am referring to a defect, not normal wear and tear, abuse or standard service. It is important to never make judgement on an issue until it is evaluated first hand no matter how knowlegable someone may be
...............
Mares is the final responsible party for it's warranty, we do not exclude (as a business decision) warranty performance as a condition of Authorized Dealer Agreement. It is a requirement as well as complying to Federal Trade Commission Product Warranties Act.

Performance as per warranty policy quoted below requires repair or replacement of defective product. No-where does it say repairs, which include labor, must be paid for by consumer. Warranty performance would require, when possible, the action taken by Whitelightnin with his replacement of the hose for the consumer. As opposed to customer sending product to Mares - and waiting, or taking it to dealer who ships to Mares while customer - waits, or to have customer pay dealer for product defects performance, repair or replacement, covered under warranty, an action dealers are required to perform per the FTC act, and dealer agreement, per your quote. I find it hard to believe co. policy on this issue is not clearly stated in dealer agreement, if this is indeed the case.

Quotes from Mares Limited Warranty posted on referenced thread.


Mares warrants this regulator against defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner, with the exception of mouthpiece, hose, O-rings, filter or valve seats, which are warranted for 2 years. During the first two years, Mares warrants that all parts of this regulator will be free of defects in materials and workmanship. Mares will at their option repair or replace any components they find to be defective.

Certain warranty stipulated conditions must be met. Not posted. There is no mention of labor charges, but an implication that product is fully covered for any qualifying defect corrections, withing limitations, at no cost to consumer, except when consumer chooses to ship product directly to Mares. Warranty does stipulate customer must pay shipping in this case.

Quote from warranty:


To obtain warranty service, you must deliver the regulator to Mares or one of their authorized repair facilities If you send the regulator to the factory, you must pay the shipping charges to the factory..

Frankly, Phil, at this time I do not have any confidence in your, or Mares in general, reply. Nevermind the futility of getting a simple straight forward answer. The same answer - twice. If you truly want to make Mares a company divers can trust, formulate a policy that encompasses important consumer issues, have them clearly stated in writing, and clearly articulated by all co. rep's., - in a consistent and concise manner. That is not what I see at this point.

Let everyone reach their own judgment.

[Phil Mintz]

Scuba,

The reason the majority of companies do not come on these boards is they simply do not want to face hostile consumers and get into extended discussions caused by how they may type or state something in a forum. Yet some, including myself are here. That may not be worth anything, but many have told me privatly that it is.

As for our policy, the above quotes are clear. If a product has a manufacturing defect, in most cases it has to come back since it cannot be repaired. Many dealers (such as Larry) who work with us on a regular basis understand this and many times will replace the item for the customer knowing we will then replace to them.

As for service, we cover parts, not labor. This is also stated and is consistant throughout the industry.

We evaluate our policy on a regular basis and from time to time do make changes, these can all be found in the policy book that comes with every product.

I think most understand this, there are always exceptions under certain situations, but these are not the norm and I cannot list every possible situation in this forum. I know you will not like that, but it is simply not possible.

Over all I feel our current policies are fair and consistant. Maybe this does not satisfy you, but I am not sure what would. Maybe I am wrong for coming on these boards to speak with most beacuse there always seems to be a few who feel Dive companies are these big billion dollar corporations and Dr. Evil :) is sitting behind a desk thinking of ways to screw the consumer next.

I can tell you that today everyone at Mares is working hard to sell, service and be a good company to do business with. Are we perfect? I do not know any company that is.

There are many companies in the industry because consumers want choice. While we want your trust and support, in this case it may not be possible. We hold no ill will and will continue to do our job in the marketplace

[Debraw]

With regards to ANY item that I sell in my store, if someone bought it in my shop and in some cases even when they have not, I service it. I take that defective part, hose whatever get and RMA and send it back and I always get a new one. I have never expected to get paid for labor. To me it is part of doing business. I even took back a Uk light that a guy brought it yesterday with the receipt he had bought it at Leisure Pro. I am a local UK dealer. I called got an RMA and sent it back, he paid the shipping. It took about 3 minutes. Meanwhile, he bought some air and continues to do business with me in one form or another and has over the last three years. I have no doubt that customer will recommend my shop if someone asks him where they should go to get certified. I have changed literally 30 or so hoses from various Dacor/Mares models of computers and regulators. I have been dealing with the hose issue from Mares for TWO YEARS! My former store manager called Dave in the parts department and said " hey I need like 20 hoses so I have something to change out with on the spot". We got them and I sent back the bad hoses, all at one time in a priority mail box. I never asked for any labor. What I do expect is respect when dealing with Mares in the future and have no employees or management to question my loyalty to the product. I think every company has some issues in one form or another. I feel bad the Broken Bow Scuba has not received the same level of care that I have received from Mares/Dacor. My Dacor rep Rick Golden was the first person to take me seriously when I opened my shop three years ago. He stood in my shop when I had 100 square feet of air conditioned space and did a full product line demonstration as if I were a 2000 square foot store. Two years ago my rep, Rick Golden, sat in my warehouse surrounded by staff and answered HARD questions from us when we had hose crimping problems left and right on some regulators. I started doing trade-ins on Dacor regs that I knew there were no parts for two years ago. I didn't wait for a program to tell me to do it. If it is one thing I have learned in the scuba industry is that no company is perfect. I have had my issues with Mares/Dacor in the past, and that's what it is the past. Bottom Line they have some great products, and I will continue to do business with them now and in the future. My store is now 1800 square feet and we are having a banner year. Servicing the customer first no matter what the cost is my philosophy. My hope is that all companies feel like that and if they don't then they don't get my business.

[Tunez]

Well said Debraw. It is what I was trying to say from the get go. I understand that people have and have had problems from any type of business that any of us have owned. In my personal opinion, it takes alot for someone to come on here taking time from the work at their company to answer questions and to withstand the onslaught of angry people. This more than anything seems to be a chance for those who have a troubled past to make a decision. Either you take advantage of the change or keep worrying about a broken past. Me personally, I would try to mend the problems and go forward from there.

Phil, let me say this publicly so it is not all in private. Thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to come here and answer the questions. Although my Darwin Air Integrated computer doesn't do the one thing I would like (12 hour vs 24 hour times), it does do anything else that I could ask for. Anyone else here that has shopped for computers lately will know as I do that you will NOT find a comparable computer at $350. I own two of those as well as a Dacor mask, two Mares Proton MR-12 regulators and two Dacor Viper octos. With that, I am going to stick it out and enjoy them. If something goes wrong down the line, well, I'll deal with that then. Until then, you have a very happy Mares/Dacor customer. As a matter of fact, if I could locate or could have located the Mares Dragonfly Aria in an X-Large, I would have owned that too! Too bad they were not being made anymore!!

[Phil Mintz]

Tunez,

Thank you, I also believe in moving forward. I cannot change what was done in the past, I can only understand the past and move forward.

You are one of many happy Mares/Dacor customers. My goal is to continue to keep all of you happy and bring new customers in as well.

I will always come on these boards for many reasons, but most of all I believe it is a good thing to do.

Hope all have a nice weekend.

Phil

[undrwater]

Phil,

I agree with you that coming here is the right thing to do. I applaud you for being willing to contact a dealer directly who has been having difficulties with Dacor/Mares.

OT:
I hope the full Dacor website comes up soon (like before December! :D ).

Now I have a personal question. I recently bought a Dacor Falcon BC from an online retailer (I'm not sure if they are an "official" Dacor reseller or not). I notice that not many shops are selling this BC...but it had all the qualities I was looking for.

Based on the sizing chart, I chose a small. It fits pretty well, and I have good control of my trim when I dive and feels pretty stable, but the waist strap (there is no cumberbund) ends up around my belly-button. I'd rather have it further down a bit closer to my waist, and based on how it looks, if there's a longer backplate, I could manage this.

Is there such a thing? Also, does anyone sell the crotch strap for this BC?

Thanks in advance!

Russell

[Phil Mintz]

Russell,

I will be traveling the next few day's, but will speak with the product manager and get you an answer asap.

Regards,

Phil

[Land Locked]

Phil,
Thank you for being a part of our community!
I know it can be hard at times. As a satisfied Dacor user I appreciate
your patience in handling the heat around here. I'm quite frankly tired
of the Dacor/Mares bashing. I'm planning on taking advantage of the
Dacor trade in program for the Abyss reg, and I would like to thank you
and your company for this program. I know some will think it is not enough
but I feel some other companies would do much less. I've seen much larger
companies blow off critical safety issues without thinking twice about consumer
loyalty to their product.
You're an important part of this overall community, hang tough!

[Phil Mintz]

Thank you, I will

[Scuba]

Company spokesman occasionally pass through, sometimes for the sole purpose of promotions or damage control. It’s true that many fail to remain or even appear, but, before we place all the onus on hostile customers for this event, let us take a look from a wider perspective.

In some cases, it can be persuasively argued that certain company policies are counter consumer interests, contrary to stated claims.. There are cases where the policy language is ambiguous, confusing and open to interpretation. Its implementation may be inconsistent. Contradictory claims are made by various parties (company reps and dealers), as well as outright false claims about policy stipulations and intent. Thus, tough questions, comments and criticism will naturally arise in a discussion forum. While I, for one, appreciate company spokesman who represent their company and products on this forum, I do not appreciate the added confusion, obfuscation, deception, and disregard for pertinent questions clearly asked, or the lack of a clear, plain, simple and consistent explanation a customer deserves, that take place in these discussions. This is not always the case, just a re-occurring event.

And yes, it all comes down to what is said/written and how it is said, doesn’t it? This is why companies carefully scrutinize, choose or omit every word in their policies, in order to convey the desired interpretation according to the desired objective.. Many companies are keenly aware that they will benefit by creating confusing policies which will be interpreted by many as containing benefits, that will later be denied, by confronting queries with a different interpretation, which many will accept. Along with the knowledge that the cost and effort of any legal action can not be economically justified by the affected party. This is not delirium of persecution, it is the resulting practical affect caused by certain company policies, intentional or not, on customers and clients everyday. And something relevant company official are, or should be, keenly aware of.

Phil, you mentioned Larry of Scubatoys. He consistently receives praise from his customers on this board. Other dealers and companies who come on here and espouse certain ideas and practices do not. So it is not an us against them issue.

Back to the warranty discussion, Mares has omitted the word labor from this policy, and the result is confusion and varying interpretations. Anyone who reads the other referenced thread will note that an older Mares warranty policy clearly stated labor was covered. Clear, is it not? No arguments about it. If you now want to omit labor, fine - but clearly state it as you clearly state other items omited and conditions limiting coverage. It is not about considering every possible situation under the sun, as you imply. Parts is clear. Who pays for shipping product to Mares if customer ships is clear. Which parts are covered for only two years is clear. Who pays for regular service is clear. Other stipulations necessary to validate and maintain the warranty in effect are clear. But labor - is not. Who/what the authorized repair facilities ( which you claimed were authorized dealers) - are not. Things are either clearly stated or not. Plain and simple. You may hear complaints about something being covered or not, but this argument, which resulted from an attempt by some of your customers to decipher the details of this policy would not have taken place. It is precisely due to the words written in this policy, along with the words you have chosen to use in your replies at different times in response to the issue of labor coverage for a defective product qualified under warranty that has created confusion, as an example. Your response to the same question are clearly contradictory and your answers remain effusive. Please explain how entire cost coverage excludes labor. Again, post the warranty quote you claim clearly states the exclusion of labor costs by Mares for a defective product covered under warranty. I have posted a quote from your warranty to support the opposite argument. The full text of the warranty policy can be seen on the other thread. If quotes such as those are clear to you, I truly hope we have a misunderstanding about the issues discussed, otherwise, your message is indeed very clear as well. It is not uncommon to see discussions here where people are talking passed each other, discussing different aspects. No one is immune from this at one time or another.

One more thing, please reply to OkieDiver’s question and relevant issues. Not to me, but to every Mares authorized dealer. Why do I care? Because as a Mares customer, who is proud to own what I consider to be an excellent product (regulator), I do not appreciate walking into dive shops and having to hear snide remarks about Mares customer service issues, especially when they have an actual and direct impact on the servicing of the product and customer treatment.

When I compare my Mares warranty policy card of a few years ago to the newer one on the other thread, I do not like the direction taken in this instance. When I read about authorized dealers charging customers for labor covered under warranty. ( we disagree on policy interpretation) When I read your comments here, I see effusiveness, not clarity on some very simple issues. When I read some of the Dacor customer comments here, I can understand their pain. So you see Phil, for some of us, it is not always easy being a customer, and apparently dealer as well, of Mares, of company X, or of LDS Y, consider that next time you sense hostility in your customers and place the onus on them.

Yes, the past is the past. But you can’t just wave a magic wand and say all the damage that has been done is forgotten in an instant - all has changed, as I believe you alluded too. If you want to earn my, and some others, trust and support - change the ways of the past with words and deeds. You say Mares has, I respectfully disagree, for the aforementioned reasons. Normally, I would gladly give Mares the benefit of the doubt, as I have on another issue in the past, but at this point, I feel it is up to Mares to regain the trust and respect they lost. Am I too demanding? Perhaps, but my requests are simple, clear, and I believe within reach of a company who values every customer - and demonstrates it by its words and actions.

Good luck in instituting real change.

[scubapro50]

I too am a little concern about the "labor" and having to send the regulator back for service under warranty. Many years ago my wife had purchased a Dacor 360 and had used it about 20 times within 2 years when it started to free flow badly. We live in Texas but were diving in Florida. We did have the "black & silver" plastic lifetime warranty cards with us that dacor sent you when you registered your regulator. The dive shop in Destin we were using loaned us a regulator (at no charge) and had the problem fixed by the next day. We thought this as great since we didn't purchased it from them (bought from LaMare's Dive Shop in Beaumont) and it didn't cost us a cent to have the problem corrected. NOW THAT WAS GREAT WARRANTY SERVICE

[Phil Mintz]

Phil,

I agree with you that coming here is the right thing to do. I applaud you for being willing to contact a dealer directly who has been having difficulties with Dacor/Mares.

OT:
I hope the full Dacor website comes up soon (like before December! :D ).

Now I have a personal question. I recently bought a Dacor Falcon BC from an online retailer (I'm not sure if they are an "official" Dacor reseller or not). I notice that not many shops are selling this BC...but it had all the qualities I was looking for.

Based on the sizing chart, I chose a small. It fits pretty well, and I have good control of my trim when I dive and feels pretty stable, but the waist strap (there is no cumberbund) ends up around my belly-button. I'd rather have it further down a bit closer to my waist, and based on how it looks, if there's a longer backplate, I could manage this.

Is there such a thing? Also, does anyone sell the crotch strap for this BC?

Thanks in advance!

Russell

Russell,

The backplate only comes in the one size. We do not sell a crotch strap for this BC, but it would be fairly simple to attach one. The only thing to be aware of , if you needed to get out of the BC quickly, the crotch strap adds one extra step to unclip.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Phil

[undrwater]

Russell,

The backplate only comes in the one size. We do not sell a crotch strap for this BC, but it would be fairly simple to attach one. The only thing to be aware of , if you needed to get out of the BC quickly, the crotch strap adds one extra step to unclip.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Phil

Thanks for the info Phil.

Russell

[scubapro50]

Received my regulators last friday .... great deal .... traded in those old Dacors for the new Abyss regulators was a good deceision ...... want to thank Debra at SURFACE INTERVAL SCUBA for making the exchange quick and easy.

[scubapro50]

as of 10/15/2005 the www.divedacor.com still isn't ready ... the "comming soon in 2005" doesn't seem to mean much now at the end of the year .... maybe be can get a "2006" websight by 2008 ? (they (dacor) have dropped the ball more times than a Houston Texan receiver)

[Scuba]

as of 10/15/2005 the www.divedacor.com still isn't ready ... the "comming soon in 2005" doesn't seem to mean much now at the end of the year .... maybe be can get a "2006" websight by 2008 ? (they (dacor) have dropped the ball more times than a Houston Texan receiver)

Don't be in such a hurry, there's plenty of time left. Besides, if you end up with something like the new and improved Mares site, slick content rich and substance poor, you might as well go to a local LDS and pick up a sales brochure.

[Phil Mintz]

There will be an update to the Dacor site, but we are redesigning the Mares site first. It is scheduled to launch by end of Dec. and the Dacor site will follow.

[divejax]

By the looks of the new Mares products for 2006 that my Mares rep showed us here at the shop I would have to say Mares is sincerely making changes in the right direction. These were some of the best looking new products I have seen from Mares in quite a while. We especially liked the new wetsuits, the Proton Ice Extreme regulator and the new design on the MRS weight integration system. .
I hope the same efforts are put forth into the creation of the new Mares website as well.
What's the deal with the blue tongue lady anyway??

[Debraw]

By the looks of the new Mares products for 2006 that my Mares rep showed us here at the shop I would have to say Mares is sincerely making changes in the right direction.

I agree! I ordered the "Passion". I can't wait to get my hands on those black Nemo's!
I love the new Proton Ice Extreme also. Looking forward to the coming year...

[undrwater]

These were some of the best looking new products I have seen from Mares in quite a while.

By this do you mean fashion, quality, or both? Sometimes such statements can be hard to interpret.

Did you actually get a chance to try some of these things out?

[divejax]

By this do you mean fashion, quality, or both? Sometimes such statements can be hard to interpret.

Did you actually get a chance to try some of these things out?

I would say fashion, function & quality. The BC's looked better (less plastic trimmings) and the new weight integration (MRS PLUS on Dragon, & Kaila Bc's) system has a better design than the old MRS system.

I didn't get a chance to try everything out. However, I tried my darn best into talking the Mares rep into letting me keep the demo Proton Ice Extreme to test for myself.
I was intrigued by the looks of the Proton Ice Extreme. Also the Proton Ice Extreme was the ONLY regulator the US Navy approved for use in ALL environmental conditions.
Starting Jan 1 2006 Mares will also offering lifetime parts replacement with annual service.
The new Trilastic wetsuits looked well made too. I'm ordering one of the new Trilastic 5-4-3 wetsuits for myself. My Isotherm is now 3 years old so I will be getting one of the new 2006 isotherms as well. The new Isotherm has a new look, a bib built in and a new design zipper. Hope this helped to clarify myself some.

[Norberto]

I recived few Protons Ice Extreme yesterday, 3 weeks later than I was promised. I guess better late than never although I cannot deliver them for Christmas


.
I was intrigued by the looks of the Proton Ice Extreme. Also the Proton Ice Extreme was the ONLY regulator the US Navy approved for use in ALL environmental conditions.

.
.
Can you direct me to the source?

[divejax]

I recived few Protons Ice Extreme yesterday, 3 weeks later than I was promised. I guess better late than never although I cannot deliver them for Christmas


.
Can you direct me to the source?

Norberto
I just received my proton extremes as well on Friday. Most of mine were sold before they got to the shop. However, I hope this slow shipping trend does not continue on the 2006 products. The Information about the proton extreme meeting all the US Navy requirements was provided to me by my Mares Rep with the mares 2006 promo stuff. You may want to ask your Rep. I see your shops located in Richmond Hill Ontario? We're in Richmond Hill Ga. (Near Savannah).

[undrwater]

There will be an update to the Dacor site, but we are redesigning the Mares site first. It is scheduled to launch by end of Dec. and the Dacor site will follow.

It would appear we have a new Mares web site, but the Dacor site still says "Coming Soon in 2005". If that's truly coming soon...anytime soon, a reliable indicator might be helpful.

Happy New Year All!!

[under3483]

Hey Phil:
Where is that Dacor site update? Are you going to change "Coming Soon in 2005" to "Coming Soon in 2007?" Better yet make it "Coming Soon in 2020." Or tell the truth "Never Coming Again." Dacor is dead. You people killed it. There is nothing left to do but dig a hole and bury what little is left.


There will be an update to the Dacor site, but we are redesigning the Mares site first. It is scheduled to launch by end of Dec. and the Dacor site will follow.

[under3483]

Hey Phil:
Is this the new website? http://www.divedacor.com/ Not just a website, it's an interactive website!

Hey Phil:
Where is that Dacor site update? Are you going to change "Coming Soon in 2005" to "Coming Soon in 2007?" Better yet make it "Coming Soon in 2020." Or tell the truth "Never Coming Again." Dacor is dead. You people killed it. There is nothing left to do but dig a hole and bury what little is left.

[bajashack]

I've been doing research online for my new and first BC. I have a list of BCs that I was going to try on and Dacor Hemisohere and Elite are on that list. So I went to their website to find it down for days now. So I called the 800 number and the customer service rep said they were told mid-September for the new Dacor site.

I wasn't aware of all the non-support issues and only new Dacor because my husband who has been certified since 1978 spoke highly of them. But he's been out of the dive scene for over 10 years.

Now I'm unsure if I should invest my money on them. I saw the Hemisphere advertised in the current issue of Scuba Diving magazine. Does this mean that they support this model? Hard to get answers without a website. I haven't gone to my LDS yet. They sell Mares and the customer service person said they would be my Dacor shop. But her first answer was "There's no shop in Anchorage".

Advice???
Like many on this site DACOR was a great leader in product development and support to them. I ran in to some problems with DACOR and warranty a few years ago and I was very unfortunate, I had a BC that was about 6 months old and they did not warrenty the product. believe they have product that is still good however there are newer manufactures that make a comparable products that probably offer better customer support. If you are looking for a manufacture that has a long history and one of the best reputations consider scuba pro. I can still get parts for a regulator that is 30 ++ years old. Their products have been tried, tested and true. Dive equipment is always evolving so look what is around and shop wisely.

[under3483]

Hey Phil, Hey Phil:
Where is your reply???


Hey Phil:
Where is that Dacor site update? Are you going to change "Coming Soon in 2005" to "Coming Soon in 2007?" Better yet make it "Coming Soon in 2020." Or tell the truth "Never Coming Again." Dacor is dead. You people killed it. There is nothing left to do but dig a hole and bury what little is left.

[Phil Mintz]

under,

I have been on these boards since April 2005 and for the most part have enganged in good constructive exchanges with most members.

I see you are a new member who has made 5 posts: two regarding scubapro on the internet and 1 (3 times) regarding Dacor on the web. You have made a definitive statement "Dacor is Dead", "There is nothing left to do...." insinuated that I am a liar "or tell the truth" and are completely misinformed regarding the history of Dacor "you people killed it". Which shows you have not even read this entire board.

As a new member why is you entire focus or reason for posting simply about the Dacor web site? Are you in this industry? Do you have another agenda?

Now that I have clarified my postion, unless you have something worthwhile to discuss or are capable of discussing an issue in a respectful manner, I see no reason to respond to your posts.

Now you have my reply "Hey Phil, Hey Phil: Where is your reply???"

[Xizang]

Phil,
When is it going to get updated anyway? What will Dacor's positioning be on the relaunch (if it will be relaunched)?
I just sold my last set of Dacor reg because of the uncertainty of the brands future. I have students asking me if they should get a Dacor because its being sold at scuba stores here for ridiculously cheap prices and because I have no idea where the brand is headed I just tell them to consider other brands first because I have do not know about the brand anymore.

[Phil Mintz]

Jai,

I cannot give you an exact date (if I do some will nail my feet to it) we will launch a new Mares site by end of Feb., and Dacor & Sporasub will follow. Mares was supposed to be ready mid Jan., but I am not a web developer and for various reasons it is delayed.

Dacor is not going away, there is no big marketing campaign planned as of now and no big product introductions planned, but we will continue to sell some exisitng items and there are some very good values on these products. In the future we will relaunch the brand, but it will not happen in 2006.

Regards,

Phil

[Xizang]

Jai,

I cannot give you an exact date (if I do some will nail my feet to it) we will launch a new Mares site by end of Feb., and Dacor & Sporasub will follow. Mares was supposed to be ready mid Jan., but I am not a web developer and for various reasons it is delayed.

Dacor is not going away, there is no big marketing campaign planned as of now and no big product introductions planned, but we will continue to sell some exisitng items and there are some very good values on these products. In the future we will relaunch the brand, but it will not happen in 2006.

Regards,

Phil

Phil,
Thank you for the reply. In that case I shall just advice students to buy with caution considering that Scubaworld Philippines has already dropped it from its shelf space. I have noticed though that they have started to push Mares equipment with new merchandising materials in the stores.
thanks again

[SteveDiver]

Hey Phil, Hey Phil:
Where is your reply???

Mature statement there guy... You should be proud of yourself, the education really paid off..

All of my equipment is DACOR and I would not dive with anything but DACOR..never had a single issue with my equipment....

[Furypickles]

I originally started out with Sherwood bc reg and octo, I am now all Mares and Love their products, esspecially the new womens line, ( we like to be colour corordiated ) I have never had any reason to return anything, mind you my husbands bc pocket seam was ripped and they had no problem repairing it free of charge. I would suggest however before purchasing anything try them on and see if the shop has a rental that you can use in the pool or a local dive to see if the item is comfortable to you. There is no point buying and returning if that can be avoided as the items are either returned or used as rentals. They can't put returns back on the floor if they have been used who wants to wear a wetsuit that has already been christened?

[Scubafast]

Divers Paradise in Webster, Tx still has a lot of old parts stocked for the old Dacor regs.
It is really a shame what Head has done!!!!!!!!
I am sad to see such a great brand treated this way.
The "unofficial" news is that Dacor is dead. Mares/Head is no longer supporting any of it.
If you have any of the Dacor stuff since the merger (i.e. Vipers regs.) you can get support from any Mares dealer since the seat/guts are the same.
I take hope in Phil's comments that they will relaunch this brand some day!!

[scubagoomp]

Hey Phil (AKA Next):
You do give an exact date: Comming Soon in 2005!!! and your feet have been nailed.

Read your own website - www.divedacor.com/

Is the Dacor brand worth so little to you folks, you can't update the lie to "Comming Soon in 2007?"





Jai,

I cannot give you an exact date (if I do some will nail my feet to it)

Regards,

Phil

[Phil Mintz]

Hey scubagoomp,

Is there some specifc information on Dacor that you are looking to the website for that we can provide you?

Phil

[BigWhiteSquare]

A lot of us would like to know which, if any, of the Dacor products are going to be available in the future. Shockingly enough, there was actually a company and product line there with an existing customer base before the fine people at Head stepped in.

___

[ProfessorAronnax]

I loved my Dacor Pacer! Of course that was 1981

[BigWhiteSquare]

BTW - Nice job with the new Mares site. It's much better than the old one.

___

[Phil Mintz]

BigWhiteSquare

Thanks, still has many "holes" that will be completed over the next couple of weeks. I do agree we need to post which Dacor products will be offerred, once the Mares site is finished, the programer will be working on the Dacor site.

Phil

[Phil Mintz]

A lot of us would like to know which, if any, of the Dacor products are going to be available in the future. Shockingly enough, there was actually a company and product line there with an existing customer base before the fine people at Head stepped in.

___


Note, we have changed the Coming Soon to 2006.

Phil

[c_m_wood]

I also like the new mares site - very polished IMO. I'm afraid I dont own any Dacor gear but my regs are all Mares - V16 Proton metal with proton octo. I am very impressed with these so keep it up despite any hassle you get here.

[daniel f aleman]

Phil,

Dacor is dead as a product line, you know it, and so do your dealers. Mares bought Dacor for its patents. That's it. As for Mares, well they do make decent regulators and the best fins.

And, as you know, Head has some of the biggest idiots imaginable in top management. Check-out any tennis board for their views on current Head racquet products.

$3.85 per stock share... please.

[Phil Mintz]

I also like the new mares site - very polished IMO. I'm afraid I dont own any Dacor gear but my regs are all Mares - V16 Proton metal with proton octo. I am very impressed with these so keep it up despite any hassle you get here.


c m

Thanks for your support, appreciate the comments.

Phil

[Phil Mintz]

Phil,

Dacor is dead as a product line, you know it, and so do your dealers. Mares bought Dacor for its patents. That's it. As for Mares, well they do make decent regulators and the best fins.

And, as you know, Head has some of the biggest idiots imaginable in top management. Check-out any tennis board for their views on current Head racquet products.

$3.85 per stock share... please.


Daniel

Thanks for your opinion, they all count. I do not agree that all my dealers think Dacor is dead, especially the ones who are purchasing Dacor product.

I think you are way off target if you think Mares bought Dacor for the patents.

Thanks for the complements on Mares stuff.

I am willing to discuss most issues with you, but I do not think you know any of the top management at HEAD and even if you do, let's keep the comments alittle more professional.

Now: I have only been working for Mares slightly over one year, so I have never claimed to be an expert on equipment on these boards, BUT if you want to discuss racquets and the industry you are barking up the wrong tree. I have been with HEAD Racquets for 17 years and in the industry for over 20 before I moved to Mares. So unless you know the industry, it's cycles, marketshare data on a worldwide basis the dealer network etc, etc, etc... I do not think you should sum up the product line by a few comments you have read on a board.

Thanks,

Phil

[daniel f aleman]

Phil,

I played and worked as a tennis pro for twenty years; I was sponsored by Head/Penn.

1976 - Head XRC
1979 - Head Edge
1982 - Head Pro TXP
1988 - Head Prestige 600

I've been to the factory, know what I mean? You remember the Head Prestige 600 and the Tour 630, they were discontinued why again? iPrestige? Liquid Metal? Flexpoint? Are you guys just kidding? Man, what Head used to be...

As far as Mares, great. But as for Dacor, well, it ain't tennis Phil, paint jobs won't cut it in the dive industry.

[JeffG]

I played and worked as a tennis pro for twenty yearsDo you have a C card to prove that?

[daniel f aleman]

Do you have a C card to prove that?

Bunch of local tourney trophies, and a college degree on a full ride. My brother and I played decent doubles on the satellite tour (minor league) for a while. You make even less money in tennis than you do in scuba; both sports are so addictive, though...

[Phil Mintz]

Phil,

I played and worked as a tennis pro for twenty years; I was sponsored by Head/Penn.

1976 - Head XRC
1979 - Head Edge
1982 - Head Pro TXP
1988 - Head Prestige 600

I've been to the factory, know what I mean? You remember the Head Prestige 600 and the Tour 630, they were discontinued why again? iPrestige? Liquid Metal? Flexpoint? Are you guys just kidding? Man, what Head used to be...

As far as Mares, great. But as for Dacor, well, it ain't tennis Phil, paint jobs won't cut it in the dive industry.

Daniel,

Okay, at least you have qualified your comments. Yes, I too was in Boulder, both when it was a factory and then offices and distribution (yes metal racquets were produced in NJ prior to this). I also sold those racquets to, they were all great frames. But, the industry and technology changes, our factories in Austria and other parts of the world were/are far superior to anything ever produced in Boulder. Our Titanium, Liquid Metal, the various versions of the Prestige and Radical through the years, all have been great sellers and in many cases surpassing their predesessors. Construction & materials, weights, headsizes, balances and performance improvements have opened up the game of tennis to the masses. While as a tennis pro, playing with your 82 - 88 square inch headsize may have been a measure of your talent, the head sizes today (92 - 120 sq in approx.) have allowed many more to improve and enjoy the game, which is doing well as the latest industry surveys prove as the number of players is strong.

If the Dive industry got together as the tennis industry did a few years back when tennis was suffering (formation of the TIA) and actually worked together, it could only be a positive to introduce more people to diving and help grow the business which would be a big boost to retailers, manufactures, travel companies and most of all, Divers.


Regards,

Phil

[Phil Mintz]

Daniel,

Do you live in Cancun as your profile lists? I was there three weeks ago, I am usually there once a quarter. If you are there, on my next visit we can go on the court and you can beat me up :)

Phil

[daniel f aleman]

Phil,

The Prestige was the best racquet ever made. It improved on the Prince Graphite. The loss of that racquet changed the sport. You had 50% of all local pros playing with it. How many Slams won with it?

Phil, what took the Presitge 600's place? That's right, the Babolat Pure Drive, a 3.5 woman's racquet.

Changed the game.

-----------------------------------------------------

I do teach tennis lessons infrequently at the Cancun Palace resorts, and of course, I play with Head.

-----------------------------------------------------

Good luck with your new responsibilities with Head/Mares.

Dan Aleman

[paolov]

Do you have a C card to prove that?

you had to ask huh? ;)


.

[H20Bubbles]

By the way... it is alive.

[daniel f aleman]

Just rebadged Mares product or a continuation of older models - all made in Italy. Sadly, the Rig Pro is no longer, the best BC that Dacor had.

[Scubafast]

It's about time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now make it as nice as the Mares site!!!!!!!!

[undrwater]

Phil,

Pass thanks on to the web developers for getting the site up. It's obviously a beginning, and I look forward to its continued development.

Maybe this thread can be used to provide suggestions for improvement to the site?

I'll throw a couple in just to start:

- On-line registration form
- FAQ
- Support Forum

Just a thought...

[scubapro50]

DISAPOINTING to say the least ..... after waiting over a year for the "new and improved" Dacor websight it's not the "interactive" dream we expected. Having to download the pdf format and use Adobe Reader is really UNPROFESSIONAL for a major diving company trying to turn their image around. Come on now folks .... I could have scanned the catalogue and use Adobe to present it on my home computer. Take a look of what your competition has done with their websights .... Scubapro, Aeris, Aqualung, Cressi, Sherwood all have better sights that are easy to use and give a better presentation. Dacor needs a major reworking of their websight fast and I don't mean a one page ad saying "comming in 2007 the new and improved Dacor websight" ....... FIRE your websight developers and get some new designers quick .

[Nova SS]

Its a start.

Do you guys have any idea what it takes to get a mayor product line up and running? Or worse what is involved in a company take over or buy out?

I have worked at the same "desk" for 12 years and have been "owned" by 4 different companies. Each time it takes at least a year to get the place back and running after we are bought out. Each company has a different way of doing the SAME thing. Most of the time its no better, they just want to do things different. We make multiple products and you are not always in the front of the line to have YOUR problem corrected first.

Mares was put first in line, after that, funds permiting Dacor may come around. It just aint going to happen over night.

[scubapro50]

In todays market you must take advantage of all options. Mares/Dacor takeover didn't just happen overnight. They have had at least 3 years to get things rolling with the new management team. Many divers check out the products on line before ever go to a shop. Finding a current catalogue at the shop sometimes is a problem. If the catalogue are free then they are gone .... some companies even want to charge a $1.00 just to get one of their catalogue. Gone are the days when you could write or call the scuba company and request a free catalogue be sent to you in the mail. Many dive companies don't attend large dive shows such as 'SEASPACE' to handout materials and talk with the diving public because it's "too expensive" these days. If Dacor want to make it then HEAD SPORTS need to give them the resources to do business and compete with the other major brands like Sherwood, Scubapro, Cressi, Aqualung and Mares or they will slip to the status of the "other" sooner than expected. Dacor was a major player in the dive equipment business when Sam Davidson ran the company but since his death the company has slipped so far downhill it's an effort just to regain it's footing. Many shops have dropped it for different reasons .... some stated that poor service and availibality of products for the reason .... while others reflected the attitude of Dacor turning their backs on their loyal customer base by not supplying parts and service for their older products than carried a "lifetime warranty". How can we trust a company that now offers a warranty on their products when they deceided not to honor their previous comitments. Yes the current management have tried to right things with a "trade in" policy but have you notice most older Dacor models are being traded in on new Mares regulators not Dacor. I wonder it it was the lack of a websight to gain information about Dacor products or their REBATE PROGRAM that hurt the exchange program. The Mares websight is 1st class being well designed and easy to find product information and dealer locations.

[ScubaNorth]

Ok Mares buys Dacor so everyone is upset with Mares? You can't buy what is not for sale, so who is the real demon here? Phil (Mr. Mares) is here trying his best to take the jabs being thrown and being a gentleman to boot. Sounds like a great attitude to me. I think I saw one post that had Phil on the grassy knoll in Dallas, but that I am fairly sure is just bunk. Mares come out with a trade up policy and that is also no good. I don't get it these compaies are in it for the money and if they are making the tons we all seem to iagine why is the stock trading at $4 or what ever. Good lord people get over it. I have a Viper I purchased in Aug of last year and I love it. I am looking forward to many years of use in the future and if there is money in selling parts I know Mares will be there for me, if there is no money in it well I respect capitalism at it's finest.

Peace

[scubapro50]

Ok Mares buys Dacor so everyone is upset with Mares? You can't buy what is not for sale, so who is the real demon here? Phil (Mr. Mares) is here trying his best to take the jabs being thrown and being a gentleman to boot. Sounds like a great attitude to me. I think I saw one post that had Phil on the grassy knoll in Dallas, but that I am fairly sure is just bunk. Mares come out with a trade up policy and that is also no good. I don't get it these compaies are in it for the money and if they are making the tons we all seem to iagine why is the stock trading at $4 or what ever. Good lord people get over it. I have a Viper I purchased in Aug of last year and I love it. I am looking forward to many years of use in the future and if there is money in selling parts I know Mares will be there for me, if there is no money in it well I respect capitalism at it's finest.

Peace
"You missed the point" ...... this thread is not about trashing Dacor for the mistakes made in the past but trying to let them know about the problems they are having now. Their new web sight is really bad and does not reflect the progress they have made since the buyout. I was trying to point out the dificulity of obtaining current information about the new Dacor line of products. It is really tuff to find their complete line anywhere including both LDSs and on the online web sellers. Many "old time" divers are still upset about the changes and others divers like ScubaNorth really don't care as long as they don't have any problems. I agree that Phil Mintz has taken a lot of heat for a situation he didn't create but inherited when he assumed his position. He is smart enought to accept constructive criticim and overlook the rest. The problem as I see it is he needs to rebuild the Dacor image and get their products out for the public to see. The old Dacor Corp. spent a lot of money on ads and booths at scuba shows to get their products out in front of the public. A strong websight would be a good step in turning around an image that have suffered in the last few years. I think that if Dacor is going to make a turn around they need a strong presence not only at DEMA but several of the larger "local" shows in regional markets. They not only need their reps to call on all current and past accounts but any new dive shops opening. A good websight with a list of "approved" Dacor dealers would help to direct customer traffic their way.

[Phil Mintz]

All,

Sorry for the late response, I have been out of commission for the past week. Most of the comments are good, both the positive ones and the constructive ones. I agree the Dacor site is simply a catalog on line for now, but as stated it is only the start, mostly pushed by this forum to have something more current. Nova SS and some others are correct, Mares is the focus for now. We still have many improvements to incorporate into the new Mares site (thanks for the positive comments so far). Underwater is right on, we are working on On Line registration, better support etc...

As I have stated before, Dacor is a limited line for now and the focus is Mares. We will still support Dacor and add new products in time. In most things we do we always want change and results quicker than reality will allow. I do take the positive and constructive comments/suggestions (many from scubapro50) and really appreciate all of them. As for the hostile ones, I think you all know by my responses, everyone is free to vent, but it is not something I or anyone should lose sleep over.

The one thing we can commit to you is that every day at Mares, good people are working to improve our service levels in all parts of the business. There have been tangible results and we will not rest at any point.

Thanks to all for your support.

Phil

[scubapro50]

if I were to purchase a new regulator today I would look at Zeagle or Atomic ..... Scubapro are nice but I think you may want to look around first and see what's available.
"I stand corrected and humble myself before the ScubaBoard community" ....... I just purchased a new Dacor Eagle Sport online for $140.00 Yes I know I said I would never purchase another Dacor regulator (that's why I traded for a Mares Abyss thru the exchange program) but the price was so good for an entry level regulator. I'm giving it as a graduation gift so the kid doesn't have to rent a regulator or borrow one from me everytime he goes diving. Now if another uncle would purchase a BC for him he be doing great.

[hdtran]

The "www.divedacor.com" website is now functional (though it seems to have been originally written in Italian).

That said, Phil Mintz is doing a great job as the Mares rep.

[Phil Mintz]

Thank you, I appreciate the feedback and support.

Phil

[jac11819]

Dacor rocks!