How do you signal air remaining?

[D_B]

How do you signal your air pressure remaining to your dive buddy?
When I did my intro. dive in Roatan, the instructor did it in a way I have not seen since. She indicated thousands by splaying right hand fingers across her left arm, above the wrist , and then hundreds by holding up the corresponding number of fingers , again using her right hand.
I think it was/is easier to understand than the standard 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 3 = 2000 + 300
It looked simple, quick and was very easy to see how much air someone had left , with the 2 on arm + 3 fingers , to indicate 2300

DB

[jakubson]

How do you signal your air pressure remaining to your dive buddy?
When I did my intro. dive in Roatan, the instructor did it in a way I have not seen since. She indicated thousands by splaying right hand fingers across her left arm, above the wrist , and then hundreds by holding up the corresponding number of fingers on her right hand.
I think it was/is easier to understand than the standard 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 3 = 2000 + 300
It looked simple, quick and was very easy to see how much air someone had left , with the 2 arm + 3 fingers , to indicate 2300

DB

Using 2 hands gets to be a pain when holding lights, cameras, ... I still use what i was taught - one hand flashing 5+5+3. This also works (with a little less accuracy :smile:) when using 3 fingered cold water mitts.

[StSomewhere]

Seriously? I show them my SPG. The correct response is for them to show their SPG.

[D_B]

StSomewhere ... Very simple idea , and I have done that as well , looked at others SPG , and shown my SPG
It sounds like a good idea to check to see if your buddy is correct on his air remaining ... you , or he, could have misscounted

DB

[Rovendiver]

I like the showing of the pressure guage, no misunderstandings there.

[Hydrophobic]

I was taught to use one hand. Hold hand up for numbers one through five and show fingers to the side for six through ten. Zero is made by showing a "O" with the hand.

To indicate 1270, I would show one finger up for "1" then two fingers up for "2" followed by two fingers held sideways to indicate "7" and then a "O" with my hand to indicate Zero.

All the divers I buddy with use this quite well. Shows great with blue dry gloves, I have to be careful with my black neoprene to make sure my hand is clear of my black drysuit.

[ShakaZulu]

I was taught to use one hand. Hold hand up for numbers one through five and show fingers to the side for six through ten. Zero is made by showing a "O" with the hand.

To indicate 1270, I would show one finger up for "1" then two fingers up for "2" followed by two fingers held sideways to indicate "7" and then a "O" with my hand to indicate Zero.

All the divers I buddy with use this quite well. Shows great with blue dry gloves, I have to be careful with my black neoprene to make sure my hand is clear of my black drysuit.

Same way I do it, works well..........

[ch0ppersrule]

same as hydro -- 1-5 put fingers straight up and 6-9 turn fingers to the side. 0 is a closed fist or make and "o" with hand.

[Kriterian]

I was taught to point at the air gauge to show you want to announce pressures, and then just spell out each number so 2500 would be: 2 fingers, 5 fingers, 1 "O" shape, 1 "O" shape. Although that requires two hands, so showing each other the gauge works alot easier.

[pasley]

All a good example of why reviewing common, basic hand signals before the dive is so important. We have seen here that even the simple signal for how much air I have is done/taught differently in various places around the globe.

[wedivebc]

I only dive with members of the "collective" We all share one giant interconnected brain so we all know how much gas everyone has

[Rick Murchison]

I only dive with members of the "collective" We all share one giant interconnected brain so we all know how much gas everyone hasThere ye go... the best way yet!
Rick

[Mo2vation]

All a good example of why reviewing common, basic hand signals before the dive is so important. We have seen here that even the simple signal for how much air I have is done/taught differently in various places around the globe.

I never, ever, ever have my buddy (insta-buddy or regular buddy) try to semaphore their remaining gas to me. Its always a cluster. Flash the SPG. If you start throwing fingers at me, I'll just go and grab your gauge. I need to see it, period - end of discussion.

What the heck to you ultra cold water mitten wearing ice freaks do? You always have a "fat 3" left in the can? :11ztongue

If you want mine, sidle up next to me and take a look - the SPG faces out.

---
Ken

[spectrum]

All a good example of why reviewing common, basic hand signals before the dive is so important. We have seen here that even the simple signal for how much air I have is done/taught differently in various places around the globe.

Holly crap you're not kidding. I'm a new diver but I've read a lot and most of those were new to me and I'd be clueless if confronted with the dialect UW.

Pete

[OliveBone]

Ever since I was a DM, I always swim up to them, tap my gauge, and then look at theirs. That way there is no misunderstanding as to how they signal their pressure, and I know that they are not lying about it, trying to extend a dive by finishing it with just 100 psi or so, as I've caught people doing in the past.

When I am diving with my "collective" we also share one giant connected brain, to the point that we even know when we are peeing in our wetsuits.

[Hyper-limits]

I only dive with members of the "collective" We all share one giant interconnected brain so we all know how much gas everyone has

Well Dave, when I dive with you I look at my gauge and I know how exactly how much air is in your tanks. Same tanks, same RMV what else can I say. So I guess my part of the "collective" :D

Cheers

Al

[Spratman]

Must be something about the Carribbean area. I learned the fingers on the left arm in Cancun. First time I was diving up here in PA, I was asked about my remaining air and I did that, the instructor had no idea what I was telling him. Now we always declare it as part of the predive briefing. Now I do the 5+5+5 method. I need a longer hose on my computer console, because it's too short. You'd be hard pressed to read it.

Jack


How do you signal your air pressure remaining to your dive buddy?
When I did my intro. dive in Roatan, the instructor did it in a way I have not seen since. She indicated thousands by splaying right hand fingers across her left arm, above the wrist , and then hundreds by holding up the corresponding number of fingers , again using her right hand.
I think it was/is easier to understand than the standard 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 3 = 2000 + 300
It looked simple, quick and was very easy to see how much air someone had left , with the 2 on arm + 3 fingers , to indicate 2300

DB

[Rick Inman]

With new Buddies, since the OOA I had a couple of weeks ago (the new buddy ran out, not me), I wanna' see it. I've been lied to a couple of times.

With regular buddies, we don't need to ask. At most, a point at the SPG then an OK will do. We know where we are based on the plan. In fact, a point in a particular direction tells me how much gas we have.

[limeyx]

How do you signal your air pressure remaining to your dive buddy?
When I did my intro. dive in Roatan, the instructor did it in a way I have not seen since. She indicated thousands by splaying right hand fingers across her left arm, above the wrist , and then hundreds by holding up the corresponding number of fingers , again using her right hand.
I think it was/is easier to understand than the standard 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 3 = 2000 + 300
It looked simple, quick and was very easy to see how much air someone had left , with the 2 on arm + 3 fingers , to indicate 2300

DB

You should also consider *why* you need to signal gas remaining.
If I am diving with a team, we might all have different volume tanks and fill pressures (including some in doubles some in singles). In this situation, each persons PSI remaining is largely irrelevant (and making everyone remember which tanks each has can be tricky)

What we usually do is:
1) establish what "kind" of dive we are doing -- a drift dive, a "go out and come back dive" or something else
2) each person then calculates (depending on the kind of dive) their PSI limit for the minimum amount of air needed to get 2 people safely to the surface including one OOA (required), and optionally a "turn pressure" -- a PSI at which you start to come back home. Depending on your diving you might have a more complex situation

then you just signal to the team "Hey, I reached my turn pressure, let's turn the dive" or "Hey, I hit rock bottom, let's surface" or whatever is appropriate.

I guess the time you need to signal PSI is maybe when you change the plan mid-dive, or if you don't trust your buddy.

If you don't trust your buddy then either
1) they are a student :) probably wantg to look at the SPG
2) or why are you diving with them

having said that, when I need it i use the fingers vertical on one hand and then fingers horizontal for 6-9 and circle for zero, which has the benefit that it's one-handed signaling

[roturner]

In Europe we measure pressure in bar instead of PSI. 100 bar (1/2 tank) is shown either with a "T" sign or with one hand cutting the palm of the other hand in 1/2. 50 bar is shown with a fist and 10 bar increments are shown with fingers. For example, 80 bar is shown with a fist followed by 3 fingers.

Having said that, I use the Rick Inman method with regular buddies too. I can pretty much tell you how much air my regular buddy has by looking at my own gauges. Flashing the gauges sign and getting "OK" back works just fine with these select few.

R..

[Chris Sawallich]

Not on the signaling side..but even before that... Everytime I go to look at my SPG, wether I am asked or not... I always guess first, A great habit to get into.. We should all know our Gas Consumption rates...

Think about this.. How many times do you check the gas gauge in your car?? We all know about how far our car will go, but yet I have seen some divers check their SPG soo much they saw nothing on the dive..

Start guessing everytime before you actually look at your gauge.. You will be suprised how much already know how much gas you have left..

[SeanQ]

What the heck to you ultra cold water mitten wearing ice freaks do? You always have a "fat 3" left in the can? :11ztongue


Index finger for 1, index and thumb for 2, "fat 3" for 3, "fat 3" and index for 4, "fat 3" index and thumb for 5. Just be sure not to use the thumb to signal 1...

I've used lobster claws (mittens) once and I hated it. I prefer to wrestle into my 5-in-1 finger traps instead.

[Mo2vation]

Having said that, I use the Rick Inman method with regular buddies too. I can pretty much tell you how much air my regular buddy has by looking at my own gauges. Flashing the gauges sign and getting "OK" back works just fine with these select few.

R..

When I dive with Arnaud, and we're both diving the warerheaters, I know after about 15 minutes, he has about 500 less than me, after 30, about 700 and after about an hour, from 900 - 1000 less than me - presuming we both enter with about the same.

I also have it dialed in for his 95. With regular buddies (and those within the collective) its not an issue - a nod of a sidle up to the left side will be fine.

It amazes me how many times I ask a new or newer buddy to show me their gauge, and they start with the hand jive. I mean, c'mon. We just went over this on the boat. I have more gas than you (few of us dive 130's), I want to see your gauge, show me, dammit.

This is another reason Wetnotes rule. When new buddy spazzes and forgets everything we just went over, I whip out the Wetnotes (to a page I already have written out in big block letters) and flash "show me your pressure gauge, please."

---
Ken


PS: "lobster claws"... tee hee. Nice.

[rmead]

There is no substitute for looking yourself. Would let a buddy, let alone an insta-buddy to read your spg for you and hand sign you what they read? Well if you have a ooa emergency their gas IS your gas. I agree with the other guy....somebody hand signs me I just grab the guage, and I work with deaf divers who sign perfectly.

[friscuba]

How do you signal your air pressure remaining to your dive buddy?
When I did my intro. dive in Roatan, the instructor did it in a way I have not seen since. She indicated thousands by splaying right hand fingers across her left arm, above the wrist , and then hundreds by holding up the corresponding number of fingers , again using her right hand.
I think it was/is easier to understand than the standard 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 3 = 2000 + 300
It looked simple, quick and was very easy to see how much air someone had left , with the 2 on arm + 3 fingers , to indicate 2300

DB

Just my opinion, but your way, or just showing the gauge, is the best.

There are several ways to show air. The tech and military guys have a one handed way involving the direction of the hand, this is actually a pretty good method... if you know it. Problem is, only a small portion of divers know this method.

I've seen some wierd arm and wrist slapping as you have. Hard to tell what they're talking about.

Using two hands can lead to confusion.

Zeros are a waste of time, and I would say that litterally 20-30 percent of people who signal zeros give me the wrong number. I've had large numbers of people signal me that they have 20,000 psi or greater 15-20 minutes into the dive whin I do my check. I know that can't be. I've had large numbers of people signal that they have 200 psi 15-20 minutes into the dive. That can be, but it's very rare.

I had a guy a few days ago who cupped his hand 6 times and then gave me a three. I couldn't figure out what he meant so I looked at his guage - 1700 psi. Go figure.

Your way is pretty much unmistakeable, even works for bar with the international crowd., just figure one less zero on the end.

later,

[limeyx]

Not on the signaling side..but even before that... Everytime I go to look at my SPG, wether I am asked or not... I always guess first, A great habit to get into.. We should all know our Gas Consumption rates...

Think about this.. How many times do you check the gas gauge in your car?? We all know about how far our car will go, but yet I have seen some divers check their SPG soo much they saw nothing on the dive..

Start guessing everytime before you actually look at your gauge.. You will be suprised how much already know how much gas you have left..

yes, this is definitely a good thing to get used to

[redrover]

Gee, that was interesting to read (I learn soooo much here). A lot more different ways than I realized or imagined, I figured it would be pretty standard.
As for showing gauge I’m always willing but it’s not very easy. I’m usually inches from the whatever and with wrist computer it’s hard to get the angle for them to see it.
Sounds to me that conditions or type of diving would generate best style. I like the 5+5+3 myself, seems simple vs what direction or over arm ect. Maybe I’m too simpleminded or dive in too easy conditions.http://www.scubaboard.com/images/smilies/Standard%20Smiles/04.gif

[radinator]

For years my standard has been "show the SPG". I want to see it. I'd gotten used to seeing it. Never really thought about it. I'm aware that a lot of people flash the hand signals, and have learned to adapt to the conditions. Or so I thought.

Last December, night dive to about 100' at Redondo Beach in SoCal looking for a squid run. I'm with a "random club buddy". Someone I didn't really know, had never done a dive with. He's in the dive club, and no problems were expected.

His pre-dive check seemed complete, and he just seemed to have more dives under his belt than I (at my 100 or so). He was AOW, I was OW (but with plenty of experience at Redondo at night).

We agree to dive until 1500 psi, and then start for the surface. We will do a 1 minute "deep stop" at 1/2 max depth, or 50'. Note the ambiguity in this plan, it will bite us in the tushie later :11:

We dive, and he looks around squid, and lobster. I decide I will be the attentive buddy on this dive, and simply follow him around while keeping an eye out for squid or lobster).

After a while, he comes up to me and kneels on the bottom, and flashes his hand at me "open hand-closed hand-open-closed-open-closed".

I see 5-0-5-0-5-0-5-0. I have no idea what he meant. I shrug, and he takes off and starts swimming. Not quickly, just calmly and "normal".

I think "well, whatever it was, it apparently wasn't that important. (note, MY failure here.) Maybe he was repeating a compass heading? A preferred depth?
I swim after him. He slowly turns in an arc toward the right.

After a few minutes he stops, looks at his gauge again, turns back to the left and keeps swimming. I think "Ok, he wants to follow a course.

Then he starts turning to the right again, and I think he's still looking for lobster. My air is still showing plenty, I'm an air hog, he seems calm enough, and is not stopping to show me his air gauge. He is looking at it now and then, and if it was a problem, he'd show me, right?

So we keep swimming along.

By the third time he stops his right hand turn, and again looks at his compass, and turns around and starts swimming again, I start to think "What the ----?"

Then he starts a right hand turn again and I realize " He has no clue where he's going." I rush up and grab his leg, and he turns to me and (finally) shows me his gauge. <500 psi, at 100 feet.

His hand signal was intended as 5-5-5 = 1500 psi.

I had always learned that 1500 psi is 1-5 or 1-5-0-0. Sure, I have a graduate degree in math, but why are you making me add?

I had never seen his method before.

He had intended to follow the bottom contour up from depth (hence his swimming along the bottom). My standard way to end dives ar Redondo is to go UP, doing mid-water stops, and then head back on the surface. I like the upper layer of biolum at night. I had only been diving there with people who do that.

Since he wasn't going up, instead staying on the bottom, I thought everything was just dandy.

And his "wandering" to find more lobster - he was so distracted by his air gauge he kept losing track of his compass (and the direction to shore).

We got to the surface ok, on my air. Did the 50' stop and all, but I learned several lessons.

1. More detailed dive planning. Not just that you will end the dive at some point, but exactly HOW it will be ended.

2. I also keep much closer watch on my buddy's air, to the point of being annoying sometimes, but I WANT TO SEE THAT SPG! Maybe not every time, but at least until I can "guess" what you have before I see it. From then on, the checks are just to confirm what I already know. At this point, hand signals are acceptible.

Now, back to the main purpose of this post, and the thread.

I also go over hand signals before the dive. I've done some homework since that dive and have found there are 13 different hand-signal methods for numbers - some one handed, some two handed, some inverted, some sideways, some sequential, some parallel. Some are similar to others with seemingly minor differences. I now make sure we are on the same method. I ask them to show me 1800. That is a great number for testing, as a lot of the subtleties of the different methods will be seen there.

A long post to get to this conclusion, and there were other failures during the dive, but at no point until the very end did it seem anything was amiss, and simply understanding his hand signals would have fixed that.

It was a good experience in one other sense. After thinking there has to be a better way, I started looking into other dive practices, and that's how I first heard of DIR.

[Mo2vation]

After a while, he comes up to me and kneels on the bottom, and flashes his hand at me "open hand-closed hand-open-closed-open-closed".

I see 5-0-5-0-5-0-5-0. I have no idea what he meant. I shrug, and he takes off and starts swimming.

First off - glad things worked out OK. It could have been pretty scary. Been to Redondo for squid (well, I think I was... couldn't see a bloody thing! Glad Chris schlepped his Canon rig...)

I keep coming back to my WetNotes. These things have got by butt out of more jams than any other piece of gear I have.

If there is ever any doubt whatsoever in communication, I whip it out and calmly write out what I think I heard, and seek confirmation.

I can't overstate what an important part of my safety gear this little yellow notebook is.

---
Ken



BTW - I about spit a nice Chardonnay all over my screen reading your post... "5-0-5-0-5-0... HUH????" I can totally see it now. Been there, for sure. Too dang funny. :D

[kidspot]

I'd never seen or heard of any other way but the 5+5+5+3 meathod until Fundies, then I was exposed to the DIR meathod - I don't use it because no one around here does. However it's nice to know for when I dive with others from out of state. As to why ask, Since I only have 2 regular dive buddies, much of my diving (about 1/2) is with others for the first time, since I don't know how careful they are with their air I try to ask every 15-20 minutes to see where they are. Fortunately my one regular buddy and I are rarely more than 100psi apart, and my other buddy uses about 10% less than I do, so at 1000psi I know she she has about 1300psi.

Aloha, Tim

[radinator]

I keep coming back to my WetNotes. These things have got by butt out of more jams than any other piece of gear I have.

If there is ever any doubt whatsoever in communication, I whip it out and calmly write out what I think I heard, and seek confirmation.

I can't overstate what an important part of my safety gear this little yellow notebook is.



Couldn't agree more. Even a slate would have helped then. Wetnotes are a great resource.

[CIBDiving]

Usualy with one finger.
I then wave 'byebye to the air sucking ......

[dilligaf368]

In Navy diving school, We taught to look at Your Buddies gauge and Show Him Yours. It takes all the questions out of play.
Another practice is to rig a line about 6'-10' feet to each Buddy in Low visibility or Zero-vis. so that the Buddy is NOT lost. Clips on both ends helps rig and de-rig quickly as needed............Bill

[Dectek]

I like using one of two methods... In vacation groups like mexico when a DM wants to know everyones pressure (YOU ALL HAVE THE SAME TANKS)... I like the wrist thing.
When diving at home with a regular or not so regular buddy I feel the 1/6ths method works best.
Not everyone dives the same tanks so psi does not work. 2640 psi in my 108 is far more gas than 3000 in your 80 We all should be "Diving Thirds as taught right?"....You start off with full tanks= 6/6ths It is full(we do not need six fingers) start your dive...you turn the dive at 2/3 = 4/6ths.. ect. ect. back on boat with 1/6 .With an AL80 it works out well for the mathmatically challanged because the 1/6ths match up with the 500psi increments.This way any signals are with one hand and only one signal. You have 5 fingers (Most of us) and would never have to flash any more than that for a clear signal to your buddy. 5 ok...turn 4...half tank is 3...thumb the dive at 2....better be surfacing at 1.I hate to see the 555 crap.Tell your buddy what percentage of gas you have left....not a number from a gauge. I have not been in the situation where lobster claws were worn to screw the system.

[wedivebc]

We all should be "Diving Thirds as taught right?".....

No, at least not on non-overhead sightseeing dives.

[Marek K]

OK, what really gets confusing is when divers with an Imperial SPG dives with someone who's using metric. For whatever reason... when diving with a divemaster is required, or diving with a boat-assigned buddy, or whatever...

Metric divers seem to have a standard way of signalling... though maybe they have as many variants as we Imperials do.

Anyone have a suggested way that would work universally? I kind of like Dectek's idea of sixths of a full tank (post #34)... but that would work best with a 3,000 psi full tank, where each 500 psi is one-sixth. A bit harder when a full tank is 200 BAR.

The most error-proof way may just be to show your SPG... the red zone is pretty clear, though the metric diver needs to know that a full tank is 3,000 psi.

--Marek

[roturner]

OK, what really gets confusing is when divers with an Imperial SPG dives with someone who's using metric. For whatever reason... when diving with a divemaster is required, or diving with a boat-assigned buddy, or whatever...

Metric divers seem to have a standard way of signalling... though maybe they have as many variants as we Imperials do.

Anyone have a suggested way that would work universally? I kind of like Dectek's idea of sixths of a full tank (post #34)... but that would work best with a 3,000 psi full tank, where each 500 psi is one-sixth. A bit harder when a full tank is 200 BAR.

The most error-proof way may just be to show your SPG... the red zone is pretty clear, though the metric diver needs to know that a full tank is 3,000 psi.

--Marek

The signs we use for metric measurements can just as easily be used with PSI. The "T" means 1/2 tank and the fist denotes 1/4 tank.

R..

[crpntr133]

5+5+5??? My mind is way to relaxed to be thinking about math at 80'. Either show me your gauge or do the one handed version with 6+ going left.

I did a guided dive and at the safety stop the DM wanted to know my remaining air. What stumped me was that he kept pointing to his wrist computer, which I have. The only thing was that his was AI and mine isn't. I ended up shrugging my shoulders and swimming towards him to show him mine. After that he pointed to his reg in his mouth and flashed me the OK and I caught on. Pulled the SPG and showed him I was fine. The really stupid part was that during the dive they checked everybodies and they always help up the SPG as the sign. I don't know why this guy changed.

[Marek K]

The signs we use for metric measurements can just as easily be used with PSI. The "T" means 1/2 tank and the fist denotes 1/4 tank.
How standard is that throughout Europe? I've watched divemasters in Egypt quickly (very quickly) go through the remaining-air signals... the speed with which they always do that makes me think the signals are very standard.

"T" for 1/2 tank is clear. But it seems that there are more signals than just 1/4... that doesn't seem precise enough...

--Marek

[Notso_Ken]

I was taught to use one hand. Hold hand up for numbers one through five and show fingers to the side for six through ten. Zero is made by showing a "O" with the hand.



This is a method taught extensively in the military, from my experience. We used that back in my AF flying days to communicate between aircraft even.


Ken

[Dectek]

How standard is that throughout Europe? I've watched divemasters in Egypt quickly (very quickly) go through the remaining-air signals... the speed with which they always do that makes me think the signals are very standard.

"T" for 1/2 tank is clear. But it seems that there are more signals than just 1/4... that doesn't seem precise enough...

--Marek

Marek.. From what I have seen at resorts that rent equip with bar guages and when briefing anyone except North Americans the signal is on fingers for 10 bar with "T" meaning 100. A signal of "T" + 4 fingers would be 140 bar. 6 fingers alone would be 60 bar. That is the only way I have ever seen it explained for that type of measurement. It is the imperial system that has folks spinning their wheels. Anyone feel free to correct me if I have perceived this system incorrectly.

[ArthurGerla]

6 fingers alone would be 60 bar

60 bar would be a fist followed by one finger.

It's the system I've seen used throughout the Med and the Red Sea. Didn't even know there were other ways. But if you're close enough showing your pressure gauge seems the best method to me. That's certainly the way I was taught in my VDTL (the German CMAS federation) courses.

Art

[djanni]

The number of fingers flashed first are thousands and the number flashed second are hundreds.

On the first show of fingers if someone flashes 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 you can be pretty sure it's hundreds.

If that's confusing then the number of fingres across the forearm are thousands and the number held up are hundreds.

[friscuba]

The number of fingers flashed first are thousands and the number flashed second are hundreds.

On the first show of fingers if someone flashes 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 you can be pretty sure it's hundreds.

If that's confusing then the number of fingres across the forearm are thousands and the number held up are hundreds.

So if someone flashes 2 fingers, what do they have? I know divers who can outlast me on a tank, and I know for a fact there are divers who can drain a tank by the time I'm down to 2000 psi. 1 finger = 100 psi leaves no room for confusion.

Once you have separate signals/movements for thousands and hundreds, you are adding potential confusion to the matter.

Just my opinion.

[String]

If its a shallow dive we typically brief to signal 100 bar and 50 bar with hand signals.

If its anything other than a shallow plop we physically show each other the gauges. This prevents misread hand signals and misreading by the buddy and original person, especially if its deep enough for narcosis to be an issue.

[djanni]

They have 2,000. Read my post again.

So how do you do it?


So if someone flashes 2 fingers, what do they have? I know divers who can outlast me on a tank, and I know for a fact there are divers who can drain a tank by the time I'm down to 2000 psi. 1 finger = 100 psi leaves no room for confusion.

Once you have separate signals/movements for thousands and hundreds, you are adding potential confusion to the matter.

Just my opinion.

[Mo2vation]

This is like the best post ever! Seriously, what a cluster.

Man - this is the poster child for a pre-dive meeting in the parking lot or on the deck with the insta-buddy du jour.

I'm surprised nobody has linked to that "international underwater signing" whatever it is page that spews to have the solution to signing numbers, etc. Most of us have been there, seen the page, but didn't bother to buy the book. Like I need to "know" the sign for a spiralus turbanis Snailus. Its a snail... like I point those out, anyway. Please.

The only "signs" I NEED to know are:

* "OOA"

* "I gotta pee"

* "I REALLY gotta pee"

* "Shark"

* "Gimnie your wetnotes so I can stop this signing crap and tell you what I really want to say..." (PS: this sign is writing in the air or on your palm... similiar to "check, please")

Everything else isn't really that urgent.

Wetnotes are $13 from COVCI... Skip a couple of DQP meals and you're there.

Just flash the guage. How hard is that? If its too short, get a longer hose. Your SPG is as much for your buddy as you.

This thread so completely rules. I can read this stuff all night.

---
Ken

[friscuba]

They have 2,000. Read my post again.

So how do you do it?

From your post... "The number of fingers flashed first are thousands and the number flashed second are hundreds."

I've seen divers drain a tank at 25' in 20 minutes. 2 fingers would not mean 2000 for them unless it was only 5-6 minutes into the dive. Unfortunately, the divers who drain their air that fast generally are not quick to be checking their air. To do your method you suddenly would need to have a signal for "no" thousands. The more signalls involved, the more room for operator error.

Virtually everyone out here (Hawaii) who actually has worked as a guide for any length of time uses 1 finger = 100psi. We do get DMs and Instructors who come from other areas who use their own method, but after taking 6 strangers at a time out for days, months or years on end, they tend to switch to the simplest methond that everyone can understand. 1700 pounds for example would be show the full open hand three times followed by showing 2 fingers. This works for EVERYONE who has the normal complement of fingers. Any diver can pick this method up in seconds, and from what I've seen in 6+ years of leading dives, it is the most commonly taught single method out there.

The military/tech method works well, but most people don't pick it up instanly. Anything involving zeros, often times (I'd guess roughly quarter to a third of the time from what I've seen) ends up having the incorrect number of zeros - I now double check anyone who flashes zeros anymore because mistakes are so prevalent. Anything which involves touching multiple body parts doesn't generally get picked up well by those knowing other methods, add to that if you hit your wrist or arm with gloved fingers which match the color of the wetsuit, it's oftentimes tough to read as the person on the receiving end of the signal.

later,

[djanni]

1700 pounds for example would be show the full open hand three times followed by showing 2 fingers. This works for EVERYONE who has the normal complement of fingers. Any diver can pick this method up in seconds, and from what I've seen in 6+ years of leading dives, it is the most commonly taught single method out there.

Yeah, This is better.

[Marek K]

This is like the best post ever! Seriously, what a cluster.
Ken, it is a cluster. that's the point. People assume there's a universal standard, and there isn't.

Not everyone is in your situation, and has the luxury of diving with regular buddies all the time. Sometimes there's a requirement for a DM-guided dive for less-experienced divers (like our two kids)... except they're maybe following behind another buddy team, who's behind the DM. DM expects hand signals like from 15 meters away to show remaining air, and assumes that everybody knows the same standard... Except the DMs here work in metric, and our kids have psi gauges.

OK, signals need to be covered in the pre-dive briefing. And we pull the DM aside and make sure he knows we have psi SPGs, and work out hand signals. Usually, we just agree to flash SPGs... we just have to make sure the DM knows that 3,000 psi is full.

--Marek

[TeddyDiver]

Marek, actually as you have noticed there is. But in some remote and a bit isolated countries like in the US of A there just isn't interest in universal methods, not to any imported universal methods anyway ;) .
We are going to see after 10-20 years the "universal" methods coming from China and there's nothing we can do about it :11:

[Matthew]

So if someone flashes 2 fingers, what do they have? I know divers who can outlast me on a tank, and I know for a fact there are divers who can drain a tank by the time I'm down to 2000 psi. 1 finger = 100 psi leaves no room for confusion.

Once you have separate signals/movements for thousands and hundreds, you are adding potential confusion to the matter.

Just my opinion.

2000 psi = 2 fingers
1000 psi = 1 finger
100 or 200 psi = LOW ON AIR signal or SHARE AIR signal.
No confusion.;)

[Marek K]

in some remote and a bit isolated countries like in the US of A [...]
Oh, man, I'm just going to sit back and watch this. :eyebrow:

[...] there just isn't interest in universal methods

6 fingers alone would be 60 bar.

60 bar would be a fist followed by one finger.
Yeah, it really seems standardized in the metric world, too! http://www.scubaboard.com/images/smilies/Standard%20Smiles/03.gif

--Marek

[TeddyDiver]

You are so right Marek! :D

[Damselfish]

Just flash the guage. How hard is that? If its too short, get a longer hose. Your SPG is as much for your buddy as you.

That's fine for your buddy, but if you are with a group, say a drift, and it is the DM asking they're probably not close enough to see it and signaling makes sense. (Buddies close together good. Whole group that close not so good.)

[m3830431]

[QUOTE=Hydrophobic]

To indicate 1270, I would show one finger up for "1" then two fingers up for "2" followed by two fingers held sideways to indicate "7" and then a "O" with my hand to indicate Zero.
QUOTE]


What do you do for 8? I have used both the two hand and one hand method along with showing my SPG. Whatever works.

If you are diving with someone new you should decide ahead of time so there is no confusion.

[String]

That's fine for your buddy, but if you are with a group, say a drift, and it is the DM asking they're probably not close enough to see it and signaling makes sense. (Buddies close together good. Whole group that close not so good.)

Yet another convincing argument against group diving.

[Mo2vation]

That's fine for your buddy, but if you are with a group, say a drift, and it is the DM asking they're probably not close enough to see it and signaling makes sense. (Buddies close together good. Whole group that close not so good.)

Marek: With all the boat diving I do, its insta-buddy city every weekend. No biggie - have a briefing, flash the gauge, end of story.

Hey Damsel - While I'm not a drift diving specialist like many of you, I just did get back from doing 17 of them in Belize. I did 6 last summer in Mexico. On all of these, the sign to the DM was when we got DOWN to 1500 (the "T" or 1/2.) When we got to 700, we were to head up.

At no time did I ever have to semaphore some hand jive to the DM, nor did anyone else in our group. Our group, once in the water, was all over the place. Never, not once did the DM insist in knowing the specific gas levels.

---
Ken

[artw]

When my buddy gives me the Turn sign or the Thumb, I know how much gas he has left. Otherwise we just show eachother the SPG.
If the wetnotes come out, the dive is over.

[ArthurGerla]

60 bar would be a fist followed by one finger.

Come to think of it: a fist followed by a thumb would signify "I'm into my reserve, I'm going to surface". :11:

[ChillyWaters]

Using 2 hands gets to be a pain when holding lights, cameras, ... I still use what i was taught - one hand flashing 5+5+3. This also works (with a little less accuracy :smile:) when using 3 fingered cold water mitts.

Hopefully you're kidding. You can show 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 fingers with regular mitts. You'll just have to remember that extending one finger, may look like 3 to your buddy. So, now you just have to take care which fingers you show. It takes a bit of practice, but it's easily done.

- ChillyWaters

[EP3_Orion]

I think if you dive with only your buddy and no others viewing each others SPG would be best, how ever, I have found when diving in the warmer waters in the Carribian you will find many Dive Masters use the fingers on the arm method you described. All Divemasters I have been with in this area use this method. They don't have the DM view each divers SPG just becuase of the number of people involved and the issues it may cause in some delicate diving sites. I personally have come to like the method and use it all the time. Have not seen this mentod used in any other sites either.
Use what is easy and comfortable for you and your buddy and make sure you both know the procedure beofore you enter but that goes without saying.
Happy safe diving all!

[BrianS]

Sideways for thousands, up for hundreds.

[Sideband]

I was taught the 5,5,5,5 thing then to use sideways for thousands and up for hundreds. I like the later much better. "Show me the dang guage" works well too.

Joe

[DallasNewbie]

What I was taught in OW was to make a fist and "knock" for thousands, and show fingers for hundreds. This can be done with one hand, but it doesn't seem to be a very popular method. In Cozumel, we went over the signals before each dive, and each dive master did it a bit differently, but it was some variation of "ok" if >1000, one finger for 1000 and the low on air signal for 700. I think something like that works fine for signalling the DM.

[ktrjc]

I grab my throat and flop around underwater like a dead fish :boings:, my dive partner then comes over and looks at my gauge, when they do that, I spin around and look at theirs. Or, we just show our gauges to each other. You know the old, you show me yours, I'll show you mine. ;)

[Iruka]

I didn't read the last few pages of responses, so sorry if I'm repeating anything. Since our diving here is warm water, there aren't any glove issues to deal with. With mostly tourist divers, we get mostly BAR, but some PSI divers. Since there are a number of different ways of telling pressure, I ask my divers to just give me the number of fingers for each digit. So 120 bar is 1-2-0 and 1,200 PSI is 1-2-0-0 (using a fist or "0" ) I DO ask my PSI divers to be sure to give me "all" the zeroes....the reason being, if I have a bunch of BAR divers at 100 bar (1/2 a tank) and my PSI diver only signals 100....as I've seen happen...when he REALLY has 1,000 PSI, I will think he has 1/2 a tank (100 out of 200 bar) when he really has 1/3 tank (1,000 out of 3,000 psi).

Of course, showing the SPG would eliminate this problem. However, I might have 5~7 divers with me, and with 40meter/130' visibility, they're not going to be on me like woodticks, and to bring everyone right up next to me numerous times throughout the dive would be unduly disruptive to their enjoyment of the dive. Normally, I'll check everyone's air about 10 minutes into the dive, and devote most of my SPG supervision to the heavy breathers throughout the dive.

Here are 3 examples I've seen of how "not" to communicate your air pressure to the guide: 1) had a group of divers, and one of them, shortly into the dive, gave me a pressure far, far less than I would have expected....turns out she was reading the depth gauge (40 feet) instead of the SPG...so signalled "40 bar" which is about 20% full. 2) Gave a diver the "show me your pressure" signal. She stared at her SPG a few seconds... then signalled "8-0"....but her "8" was kind of unique. Instead of 8 fingers, or 5+3, she held her hands to actually FORM an 8....like you're looking through binoculars, but with the hands vertical instead of horizontal. 3) and finally, my favorite (so far, ha ha)....diver signalled to me 180 bar, about 90% full......except we'd already been diving more than 30 minutes, so 90% full was unrealistic...80bar or 100 bar would be more likely. So, I was trying to figure out how she came up with 180.....turns out she read her COMPASS instead of her SPG. So as long as she was pointing south, she was fine.....if she turned north, she'd be down to 0, right? The best part of it was, her friend ALSO signalled 180 bar to me.

Actually, I have a "backup" signal....looks basically like you're UNscrewing a lightbulb a half turn, which essentially means "it seems you're SPG-challenged at the moment, so just turn it so I can see it."

[djanni]

I'm glad we were able to clear all this up for you. :D

What else would you like to know? :eyebrow:


How do you signal your air pressure remaining to your dive buddy?
When I did my intro. dive in Roatan, the instructor did it in a way I have not seen since. She indicated thousands by splaying right hand fingers across her left arm, above the wrist , and then hundreds by holding up the corresponding number of fingers , again using her right hand.
I think it was/is easier to understand than the standard 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 3 = 2000 + 300
It looked simple, quick and was very easy to see how much air someone had left , with the 2 on arm + 3 fingers , to indicate 2300

DB

[dlndavid]

I'm glad we were able to clear all this up for you. :D

What else would you like to know? :eyebrow:

You got that right, what next? Have you thought about a BP/Wing? :D

[mark99]

I wish we could all just switch over to bar, it would be a lot easier. I can't figure out how to get my computer to switch, I guess I have to read the manual!! When I was a student we used the following (in bar, assuming 200 bar was full) the "timeout" signal (T with 2 hands) was half a tank (100 bar). So if you had more than half tank it was T followed by the number of fingers - one to ten- above half tank. Example T followed by 3 fingers was 130 bar. For less than half a tank, it was just the number of fingers. i.e. 6 fingers was 60 bar.

I know many of us use the T to mean let's go up and do a safety stop, or go up and level off at a shallower depth. When we had metric distances, the safety stop was at 5 meters, a distinct signaling advantage over the 5-5-5 or 10-5 signal I have seen for 15 ft. The signal for - we go up for a 3 minute 5 meter safety stop was: left palm up 5 fingers outstretched and right hand 3 digits tapped against the left palm.

I guess if you have mitts, it's better to just show the SPG.

[D_B]

And you thought there was a simple answer.

I'm glad we were able to clear all this up for you.

What else would you like to know?
Wow, I didn't think I would need popcorn for this :11:
Thanks for all the input



You got that right, what next? Have you thought about a BP/Wing? :D
.... Why yes , I have :eyebrow:

DB

[Dectek]

I think We should ask UP and then have everyone do it that way. It will be called SOUND. When you ask for a Sounding, you will get the :
S cubaboard
O fficial
U ncle Pug
N umber
D isplay

[CIBDiving]

I think We should ask UP and then have everyone do it that way.
won't work - I'll give Pug the offical middle finger.

[djanni]

You and Dectek.......... Careful now, talk like that is walking on thin ice.:walksmil:

He might post another Ranger story :crossbone and then the whole board will be highly upset with both of you.

You'll get :hanged:'ed.





won't work - I'll give Pug the offical middle finger.

[CIBDiving]

He might post another Ranger story and then the whole board is going to mad at both of you.

euuuwwwww!!! Good Point- I'll behave ..... well maybe

[friscuba]

2000 psi = 2 fingers
1000 psi = 1 finger
100 or 200 psi = LOW ON AIR signal or SHARE AIR signal.
No confusion.;)

Do you know how large a percentage of recreational divers don't know the signal for low on air? Unfortunately it is too high. This week alone I have had 2 people, who were told specifically to let me know when they were at 1500, signal me that they were at 300 psi. Luckily I routinely sneak a peek at every gauge a time or two during a dive and had them at the boat already without them knowing it. I'm trying to accomodate the lowest common denominator here.

[Matthew]

Do you know how large a percentage of recreational divers don't know the signal for low on air? Unfortunately it is too high. This week alone I have had 2 people, who were told specifically to let me know when they were at 1500, signal me that they were at 300 psi. Luckily I routinely sneak a peek at every gauge a time or two during a dive and had them at the boat already without them knowing it. I'm trying to accomodate the lowest common denominator here.

I do not intend to question your methods, they seem to work for you. My comments are based on my own experiences. I just find it hard to believe that somebody who just realized that he only has 100 psi left will simply flash one finger and do nothing else. :11: Anybody that dumb will not be able to pick up any signalling method.

Wouldnt it be much easier and safer to adopt the universally accepted low-on-air signal for anything below 500 psi (or higher pre-agreed value), than having a signal for 100, 200 or 300 psi, which gives the impression that its OK to intentionally drain your tank that low?:eyebrow:

[ICY ICE]

When I ask a buddy how much air he/she has I compare it to my air.........500lb later I'll ask again. This way I know how much of a difference between us their is.

I would have offered my spg for he/she to see but I dive with a wireless wrist computer. I've recently added the spg back to my setup so now for those that wish to see spg your more than welcome too.

I was taught to flash 5 fingers for 500lb and round-off to lowest hundred. 1870lb: I will flash 1800lb.

Now if I'm diving with Ken, I'll grab his octo for the first 20min of the dive, this way we can get more bottom time ;) .

[kidspot]

Yesterday I went on a guided dive with 4 other DIR divers. Now diving together we all used the same signals the night before, but when the guide asked us our air pressure we all reverted to what we thought was the "common" tongue ... I saw three different styles all in the space of 30 seconds ;) It was funny watching our guide figure it out lol

Still a great dive though -

Aloha, Tim

[xiSkiGuy]

This is a great thread. Very informative!


Yesterday I went on a guided dive with 4 other DIR divers. Now diving together we all used the same signals the night before. . .

Just out of curiosity: Which of the previously discussed methods is "DIR approved"?

[Fly N Dive]

She indicated thousands by splaying right hand fingers across her left arm, above the wrist , and then hundreds by holding up the corresponding number of fingers , again using her right hand.
DB

this is how i do it

[CIBDiving]

Just out of curiosity: Which of the previously discussed methods is "DIR approved"?

Oh Crud!!! I had hoped nobody would bring that up. :cussing:

[xiSkiGuy]

Oh Crud!!! I had hoped nobody would bring that up. :cussing:
I don't want a pro/con DIR debate. A short answer will suffice.

I bet I'm DIW ;)

[syrking]

that when using one hand, be sure to move your hand away from the bubbles to signal most clearly. You'll avoid having to ask again if you can clearly see the fingers!

[lamont]

I don't want a pro/con DIR debate. A short answer will suffice.


i think its been already covered, but i believe, going from most DIR to least:

1. you already know (both from the gas plan *and* the borg hive mind collective)
2. you look at their SPG (don't even bother asking)
3. one-handed numbers or wetnotes

[gratefuldiver2]

I always have my divers signal on one hand. 1300=5+5+3. I have found it to be the least confusing method for everyone. But, you have to keep in mind we are all a little bit slow in the Caribbean.

[paulwall]

I always have my divers signal on one hand. 1300=5+5+3. I have found it to be the least confusing method for everyone. But, you have to keep in mind we are all a little bit slow in the Caribbean.


I use one hand, one finger (Index) per 100 psi. So 1700 would be 17 #1's :11ztongue

Don't lose count, or I'll have to start all over (make like I'm erasing a blackboard).

Can't get simpler than 1 finger, can you? Must be DIR! :crafty:

[Iruka]

I think the lesson from the (so far!) 86 responses is to agree upon a method BEFORE the dive, appropriate to that particular dive (ie gloves, etc.)

[kidspot]

This is a great thread. Very informative!



Just out of curiosity: Which of the previously discussed methods is "DIR approved"?

What they taught us in Fundies was fingers up for 1-5 and sideways for 6-9


3 fingers up would mean 3000 psi (because once you drop below 500 you signal "share air", so there is no 100-400 psi signal.) - 1 finger up followed by 3 sideways would be 1800psi.

I still have to think about it though, because everyone else I dive with around here is 5+5+5 = 1500psi ... which is what I normally do as well.

Aloha, Tim

[xiSkiGuy]

What they taught us in Fundies was fingers up for 1-5 and sideways for 6-9


3 fingers up would mean 3000 psi (because once you drop below 500 you signal "share air", so there is no 100-400 psi signal.) - 1 finger up followed by 3 sideways would be 1800psi.

I still have to think about it though, because everyone else I dive with around here is 5+5+5 = 1500psi ... which is what I normally do as well.

Aloha, Tim
Thanks!

[Charlie99]

I always have my divers signal on one hand. 1300=5+5+3. I have found it to be the least confusing method for everyone. But, you have to keep in mind we are all a little bit slow in the Caribbean.This is the simple method I use when diving with insta-buddies. Easy to brief. ("1 hand. 1 finger for each 100psi.") Easy to use. Since we only exchange signals once or twice in a dive, simplicity is more important than speed.

Swim over and grab SPG if there's any doubt.

On most dives the only pressures of interest are the agreed upon turn and ascent points, so SPG readings aren't needed.

Where it DOES help to exchange SPG readings a couple times is on dives where you are wandering around a reef, then headed back to shore or anchor line. Knowing my buddy's consumption rate helps me pick an intinerary best suited for the length of time and gas left.

[Mike Veitch]

When i guide divers i don't care what they have until they get to 1000psi. Thats when i tell them to give me the finger.....whichever one they like....makes for humourous briefings

[Bo-jan]

In Europe we use different measuring units for pressure. A full tank is 200 bar (1 bar being about the equivalent of atmospheric pressure at sea level). I usually signal half a tank (100 bars, form a letter T like in time-out) and 50 bars (clenched fist). If I have to signal the remaining air at like 115 bars it's much easier just to show the pressure gauge.

Cheers
Bojan

[String]

If i only had a 200 bar fill in my tanks id be straight back to the fill station asking them where the other 32 bar has gone !

I thought only ancient aluminium tanks had 200 bar max pressure ratings.

[Bo-jan]

If i only had a 200 bar fill in my tanks id be straight back to the fill station asking them where the other 32 bar has gone !

I thought only ancient aluminium tanks had 200 bar max pressure ratings.

Most of us here dive with 15 or 18 liter steel tanks. 200 bar is just the declared pressure rating as I think most are tested on 300 bar to get the atest. I'm not 100% sure about this tho. Anyway, it is "good practice" to fill the tank to 220 bar which then cools down and you get effectively 200 bar out of it. Everything else is imho overkill as you increase the strain on the material and you decrease the life span of the tank and also the first stage of the regulator since it has to handle higher pressure. However, the dive center I was with on the island of Korcula in Croatia always filled the tanks to 220 bar net!

Cheers
Bojan

[String]

All the tanks ive seen here (99% are steel) are 232 bar working pressure (348 bar test). Most of my diving is with a 15l cylinder and id hate to ever see the type of diving that requires an 18!

The reason abroad 200 bar seems normal is the compressions are only rated at 206 bar maximum so are unable to fill a steel tank to its full working pressure.

[kidspot]

This is the simple method I use when diving with insta-buddies. Easy to brief. ("1 hand. 1 finger for each 100psi.") Easy to use. Since we only exchange signals once or twice in a dive, simplicity is more important than speed.

Swim over and grab SPG if there's any doubt.

On most dives the only pressures of interest are the agreed upon turn and ascent points, so SPG readings aren't needed.

Where it DOES help to exchange SPG readings a couple times is on dives where you are wandering around a reef, then headed back to shore or anchor line. Knowing my buddy's consumption rate helps me pick an intinerary best suited for the length of time and gas left.

I agree completely - around here with so many "unknown" buddies simplicity is a good thing. And since many dives are just cruising around the reef it's nice to know how long to plan for and if you can go to certain places or not once you are into the dive...

Aloha, Tim

[mark99]

All the tanks ive seen here (99% are steel) are 232 bar working pressure (348 bar test). Most of my diving is with a 15l cylinder and id hate to ever see the type of diving that requires an 18!

The reason abroad 200 bar seems normal is the compressions are only rated at 206 bar maximum so are unable to fill a steel tank to its full working pressure.

The AL tanks are rated to 200 bar working pressure plus an allowance for 10% overfill (hence Bo-jan's 220 bar fills). The steel tanks you are referring to are "high pressure" (HP) steel tanks, rated to 232 bar working pressure (no overfill allowed).

[String]

The AL tanks are rated to 200 bar working pressure plus an allowance for 10% overfill (hence Bo-jan's 220 bar fills). The steel tanks you are referring to are "high pressure" (HP) steel tanks, rated to 232 bar working pressure (no overfill allowed).

If you call a standard 232 bar steel tank "high pressure" what on earth do you call a 300bar steel tank?

[cool_hardware52]

99 Posts! Boy there is a truely frightening number of variations.

A couple points:

Signals................First Part of Predive Brief, do it! (Do the rest too)
Emergency
Activities
Buoyancy
Air
Gear

What I was taught, and what I do.... One handed Fingers Up, palm out for 1-5, Fingers sideways palm in for 6-9, circle all fingers, i.e. almost closed fist for zero (not the same as OK)

This method requires only one hand, no addition, and can be "backlit" in low light or vis.
(Failure to be able to do simple addition is a pretty interesting "nark" test.)

For SGP readings zero's are unnecessary. Thousands and hundreds only. Who's kidding who with a 1240 sign? Can you really read your SPG to +, - 10 psi? Even if you could, does it matter?

If somebody signals me a single digit of 3 or greater, I know it's hundreds. If I get a 1 or 2, it's gunna be 1000's.

What about the unknown newbie air hog who might be signaling 200 psi? You can tell who's the complete air hog, sucking down an al 80 to 200psi in 20 minutes. They look like a giant alka seltzer. These folks need to be bird dogged anyway. I'm not going to trust their signals in the first place.

For SPG readings, grabbing the gauge is always an option, but one needs to be able to communicate numbers UW for other reasons such as:

Compass headings

Depth

Depth and times (Safety stops, deco etc.)


Tobin

[SmokingMirror]

In Europe we use different measuring units for pressure. A full tank is 200 bar (1 bar being about the equivalent of atmospheric pressure at sea level).

Indeed. I regularly dive the UK, and the standard here - at least at the LDS with whom I dive - is to ignore the units (so 1-9) altogether, and use the hands (or hand singular, depending on the amount) to display the tens, with the T sign (a horizontal hand atop a vertical one) used after any indicated number to show a hundred.

So for a full tank of 200 bar, you would sign with two fingers (doesn't matter which two, as long as it's clear), then make the T. 135 would be represented by one finger, T, three fingers (actually signalling 130, but the units aren't counted).

[Divedaily]

Apart from the last poster, it seems that this diskussion (and the problem ;) ) only lies with the divers who use the psi-system. As other European divers have pointed out, no miskommunikation in the metric system possible. Either you show spg, or use the "T" (= 100Bar), fist (= 50 Bar) and finger (= 10 Bar each) signals. As for the diver that uses 6 fingers for 60 Bar, it might be incorrect, but everyone would still understand, so still no complications. 5 bar increments aren´t used, you just round it up/down to the nearest.
Smokingmirror, I don´t really get your system, and it sounds like your LDS is a bit on its own there. I never heard of signalling 5 Bar steps, and they would signal a full tank (as most of divers over here would dive 200 Bar tanks)? That would be on the surface I guess? :D

[drbill]

Being a solo diver, D_B, I have no one to signal so I just look at my SPG and then show it to my "buddy," my pony bottle.

[D_B]

thanks everyone for all the thoughts
... this was a good discussion and got people thinking (I even remember this thread being mentioned in the ScubaBoard news letter ... way back when)

I most times just show my SPG

[stakanak]

1000 is a fist with a forward knock. Flash 5 for 500 or number of fingers there of. One hand and easy. Oh yeah, showing your spg is a great idea. How come no one told me that in class!

[peterbj7]

No time to read all this thread. In Belize it's universal to do it the way the OP described - the fingers of one hand on the (other) upper arm to indicate hundreds of psi, fingers held up to indicate tens of psi. Up to 50 uses one hand, 60-90 either using both hands or more commonly one hand held up twice (the numbers added together). Can be started with either hand. If in doubt I always ask to see the SPG, but part of the drill is not just to learn what the other person's pressure is, but to see if they know.

It's been so long since I had to tell anyone air pressure in the UK I can't remember how it's done!

[String]

UK is the worldwide standard (ie everywhere except N america!) of just bar.

Full tank is 232 bar. 100 bar is T shape with hand, 50 bar is closed fist. 10s of bar with single fingers.

So 120 bar would be T then 2 fingers.

[goonsquad]

How do you signal your air pressure remaining to your dive buddy?
When I did my intro. dive in Roatan, the instructor did it in a way I have not seen since. She indicated thousands by splaying right hand fingers across her left arm, above the wrist , and then hundreds by holding up the corresponding number of fingers , again using her right hand.
I think it was/is easier to understand than the standard 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 3 = 2000 + 300
It looked simple, quick and was very easy to see how much air someone had left , with the 2 on arm + 3 fingers , to indicate 2300

DB
Thats what I was taught in SLC UT.

[Jax]

Apart from the last poster, it seems that this diskussion (and the problem ;) ) only lies with the divers who use the psi-system. As other European divers have pointed out, no miskommunikation in the metric system possible. Either you show spg, or use the "T" (= 100Bar), fist (= 50 Bar) and finger (= 10 Bar each) signals. As for the diver that uses 6 fingers for 60 Bar, it might be incorrect, but everyone would still understand, so still no complications. 5 bar increments aren´t used, you just round it up/down to the nearest.
Smokingmirror, I don´t really get your system, and it sounds like your LDS is a bit on its own there. I never heard of signalling 5 Bar steps, and they would signal a full tank (as most of divers over here would dive 200 Bar tanks)? That would be on the surface I guess? :D

:D Five year-old thread, but still a good one! :D

[Divedaily]

Hehe, didnt even notice :dork2:
But seems it IS actually still a good one, looking at the replies it got in a single day, after sleeping for 5 years.....

[din7]

Thats what I was taught in SLC UT.

who was your LDS? I learned 1 finger per 100lbs, like 5+5+4 for 1400. most of the other methods are head scratchers.

[Marek K]

As I hope I pointed out when this thread was active in 2005 :D, there are indeed a lot of ways of doing this. And even the "standardized" European way...isn't quite so standardized. Does the "time out" signal mean 100 bar, or half a tank remaining (which is what the Europeans always told me), or half of usable pressure remaining?

Important thing to learn is, this is one of the things that have to be agreed on when the dive plan is discussed, if you're going to communicate pressures. Underwater is a bad time to be figuring out what the other guy's signals mean.

By the way, I learned back in 1985 to do one finger for each 100 psi -- and you could use both hands. Ten fingers, then four fingers means 1,400 psi.

[D_B]

No time to read all this thread. In Belize it's universal to do it the way the OP described - the fingers of one hand on the (other) upper arm to indicate hundreds of psi, fingers held up to indicate tens of psi. Up to 50 uses one hand, 60-90 either using both hands or more commonly one hand held up twice (the numbers added together). Can be started with either hand. If in doubt I always ask to see the SPG, but part of the drill is not just to learn what the other person's pressure is, but to see if they know.

It's been so long since I had to tell anyone air pressure in the UK I can't remember how it's done!


Thats what I was taught in SLC UT.I neglected to mention that there is one very large problem with doing the fingers on the arm signaling here ... black gloved fingers on a black wetsuit arm, does not a signal make ;)
... one of the things stressed by the instructor was to hold your hand out to the side when signaling, and not in front of your body .. again because black in front of black is not very clear

[dlndavid]

or use smoke signals :D

[Louie]

I've always dived in metric - it seems to be the more common system in the various parts of the world I've dived in. The first time PSI-divers outnumber Bars was when I went to Cozumel last year.

Signals I normally use

Out of air - Cut across the throat

50 bar - pounding on the chest with fist

60 to 90 bar - the 50 bar gesture followed by a finger for each ten so 70 bar would be fist and two fingers

100 bar - is half so the T-sign with two hands

110 to 190 bar - half gesture followed by a finger for each ten bar

There are variations but as long as both buddies or all group members/guide have an established system, it's OK

When in doubt or if you have a nervous or inexperienced person, it's best to check the gauge, just in case.