Not quite DIR but . . .

[NJdiver85]

I know ponys are not considered DIR, but here's my situation. Let's assume I'm diving a backplate and wing with a single tank. The charter operator requires that I have a pony bottle. If I decide to attach the pony bottle to the side of the single tank (using a pony tamer or similiar device), will this interfere in any way with the operation and air trapping qualities of the wing (Halcyon pioneer). And one more thing: I know it is more acceptable to rig it as a staged bottle, which is what I may do anyway. I just want to know if rigging it as above creates any problems.

[omar]

If you are diving DIR (see the hogarthian thread).

You select a different operation to dive off of. You also let the charter operator know why. Money talks, at some point they will hear it.

omar

[padiscubapro]

Originally posted by tbg
I know ponys are not considered DIR, but here's my situation. Let's assume I'm diving a backplate and wing with a single tank. The charter operator requires that I have a pony bottle. If I decide to attach the pony bottle to the side of the single tank (using a pony tamer or similiar device), will this interfere in any way with the operation and air trapping qualities of the wing (Halcyon pioneer). And one more thing: I know it is more acceptable to rig it as a staged bottle, which is what I may do anyway. I just want to know if rigging it as above creates any problems.
I don't think this comes down to Dir or not Dir
Your best bet is to carry it as a sling bottle, This way you can dive it with the reg pressurized but valve off and you can hand off the bottle to someone that needs it.. I dove a pony bottle in the attached tank configuration for years (when using a single) but once I started using the a sling mount I'd never go back.. Its much easier to manipulate the bottle, is much less of an entanglement issue, and allows much better balance under water.. any reasonable size pony bottle attached to you tank will induce some tendency to rotate you..

I don't find anything wrong with an operation requiring some type of redundant source.. Its pretty common up here in the north east US.. in fact many require you to also dive with a reel (with enough line to reach the surface) and a liftbag..

[NJdiver85]

Omar,

Let's also assume, my buddy for this particular trip is not DIR, and therefore, I have to carry my own alternate air supply. I am just trying to find out if there are any operational problems with the proposed set up. Thanks.

Todd

[Iguana Don]

Mounting the pony directly to your tank it seems would cause you to be off balance. And having to correct for the uneven weight distribution. As mentioned above, I would mount it as a stage or deco and "sling" it.

You don't mention what size wing you are using, but if you just have to mount it on the tank and you are using one of the Pioneer wings it shouldn't cause any problems.

ID

[Aviatrr]

Let's also assume, my buddy for this particular trip is not DIR, and therefore, I have to carry my own alternate air supply.

Hmmm.....I thought the DIR philosophy required you to dive with a buddy.....but it sounds like you expect to be diving with people you don't trust....which goes against even the basic buddy rule. If you don't trust somebody, why dive with them? If you don't trust them, don't dive with them. If you dive with them once(or many times), and then find a reason not to trust them....don't dive with them.

Mike

[nickjb]

Does anyone have a link to website with pictures of mounting a pony like a stage?

[NJdiver85]

Hey Aviatrr,

Did you read my post? I simply stated my buddy is not DIR - meaning he is using a gear configuration that is not considered DIR. It doesn't mean it isn't a safe and acceptable configuration. Why you would infer from my post that I am diving with people I don't trust, I will never know. I am just trying to get some input on the pros and cons of a particular gear configuration. If it frustrates you that I am not simply and blindly following the DIR way, I sincerely apologize. Before I make a decision, I like to have all the facts and opinions that are out there - and to me, that is "doing it right"!

[JamesK]

tbg,

I believe what was meant, is if you are a true hardcore, gungho, DIR diver, you would not dive with any who was not DIR.

[Dryglove]

I currently have a 13cuft pony hard mounted to my main tank.Of course i have to counteract with weights to prevent rolloing to one side.

Now if i were to sling mount my pony,does one still need to counter balance for the extra weight on one side?Or is the tendency to roll not there if you sling mount versus hardmount?

[Iguana Don]

Your canister light off sets the weight of your stage/deco tank.

[Dryglove]

Im not a dir diver nor have a canister light so i guess ill have to offset with weights.Thanks!!!

[padiscubapro]

The rotaing effect of a sling bottle mounted to one side is much less then mounting a pony to the side of a tank.. when in the prone position the extra tank wants to become the lowest point so it will try and rotate you.. slinging a bottle already has it on average at a point lower than you body so the should be little rotating effect..

Part of the bottle will be connected to your hip at roughly 90 degrees or less to your prone position, the chest mounted d ring brings the most negative part of the bottle (reg and valve) closer towards the centerline of your body..

[Windknot]

Given all of the conflicting information and ideas on Ponies as a whole I would like to add my own personal opinion to the fray....

For ME (read: "ME") the addition of a pony behind me side mounted to my tank would flip me like a turtle on his back, I'm floating single LP98's on a STA, so they are sticking a ways out to start.

The addition of a pony to my backside would/did put too much weight to the back.

The other option available/most commonly suggested is to mount the pony like a stage bottle. for the purposes of this experiment I will just call it the "Stage Bottle Way" as I believe that many of the various training agencies encourage the use of stages hung in a similar fashion....so to identify the rigging as anything other than "Stage Bottle Way/Fashion" would do an injustice to one agency, mantra, or another.

Again, with all of the conflicting information, mounting options etc. out there, the decision for each person becomes more and more difficult. My final solution for my Pony tank and the rationale for the same is listed below.

PONY: 30 cf
Mounting: "Stage Bottle Fashion"

Rationale:

Simple.....economics. For a couple of bucks each for two clips, a couple more bucks for a couple of clamps, some left over/surplus rope hanging around....and the most expensive...$4.99 for a wheelbarrow innertube, my pony is mounted tight to my left hip and a little loose off my upper left D-ring. Final solution for me was simple, I could either sling it or I could store it till I could afford another $50.00 - $150.00 for a complex mounting system.


My suggestion, get the clamps and snaps and a length of rope and give it a try, I'll guarantee you will like it and you can spend the money you saved on a complex rear mounting system on the "Windknot's Boat Repair Relief Fund" :D

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Windknot
For a couple of bucks each for two clips,

my pony is mounted tight to my left hip and a little loose off my upper left D-ring.
Tips from the *for what its worth* department:

1) Use bolt snaps and not clips or anything else that can allow a line to enter and be clipped off accidently by spring action... (this is not for you Windy as I am sure that you meant bolt snap and not clip.)


2) The upper bolt snap should be at the shoulder of the tank and tight (not on a tail) whilst the bottom bolt snap should be on a tail so that the tank can move around and find its most streamlined position.

[Aviatrr]

Did you read my post? I simply stated my buddy is not DIR - meaning he is using a gear configuration that is not considered DIR. It doesn't mean it isn't a safe and acceptable configuration. Why you would infer from my post that I am diving with people I don't trust, I will never know.

See below from your original post.


my buddy for this particular trip is not DIR, and therefore, I have to carry my own alternate air supply.

The fact that you stated that since your buddy is not DIR you have to carry your own alternate air supply. Do you have to carry it JUST because he is not DIR? That makes it sound as if you do not trust your buddy BECAUSE he is not DIR.


If it frustrates you that I am not simply and blindly following the DIR way, I sincerely apologize. Before I make a decision, I like to have all the facts and opinions that are out there - and to me, that is "doing it right"!

No need to apologize. You ask for opinions here, you will get them. Good, bad, or otherwise. Don't take it personally - at least, not from me. Trust me, it doesn't bother me a bit that you don't "blindly" follow the DIR way.....because neither do I.....as a matter of fact, I have nothing to do with it. I like to see people asking questions and configuring gear how THEY feel is the best rather than how somebody tells them - that's what I do. I think pony bottles(meaning redundant gas supply) are a good idea. I carry one with me often, in the form of an AL80 stage bottle. Why? Because I dive solo. I even cave dive solo sometimes - with the proper equipment, of course.

In my original post, I was merely pointing out a flaw in your logic(carry a redundant gas supply just because your buddy is not DIR), or, at least, a flaw in your phraseology.

Mike

[Burke]

with the proper equipment, gee, I had been under the impression that a good dive buddy was a very important part of your "equipment" for cave, or any, diving. I have never met a pony tank that could drag you out of a cave (or do the MANY other important things that a buddy can). Seems to me that someone cave diving by themselves is breaking rule #1. Don't dive with strokes.

[tchil01]

Originally posted by tbg
I know ponys are not considered DIR, but here's my situation. Let's assume I'm diving a backplate and wing with a single tank. The charter operator requires that I have a pony bottle. If I decide to attach the pony bottle to the side of the single tank (using a pony tamer or similiar device), will this interfere in any way with the operation and air trapping qualities of the wing (Halcyon pioneer). And one more thing: I know it is more acceptable to rig it as a staged bottle, which is what I may do anyway. I just want to know if rigging it as above creates any problems.

Let's try this again...

tbg, to answer your origional question without all of the DIR debate, rigging the pony as you described does not effect the operation of your wing. I dive with a 19cf pony attached to my single steel 120 with a Pony tamer. I use a TP II with a Rec wing.I don't notice any rolling or any turtling, although my GF does have a tendency to roll to her right when diving with an al 80. She simply puts a 3lb weight in her left back non-dump weight pocket and she is fine.

As for reaching the valve, I can reach the pony valve as well as I can reach the main valve.

Anyway, I hope that answers your question. Rigging as you described may not be DIR, but it is the way I, as well as most of the divers using singles that I know do it. Rigging as a sling bottle looks like it may work too so it is up to you.

Hope to see you on a boat up here sometime.

Ty

[Windknot]

Here is a widely accepted fashion of rigging a stage/pony bottle.

The CAD Image was drawn by Sean Stevenson (full Credit to Author/artist) and I simply have reversed the original from black back ground with white letters/Lines to White with black letters/lines and flipped it to make it more printer friendly:

[Aviatrr]

with the proper equipment, gee, I had been under the impression that a good dive buddy was a very important part of your "equipment" for cave, or any, diving. I have never met a pony tank that could drag you out of a cave (or do the MANY other important things that a buddy can). Seems to me that someone cave diving by themselves is breaking rule #1. Don't dive with strokes.

If it makes you feel good to call me a stroke, go ahead.....makes no difference to me. No, my stage bottle cannot drag me out of a cave, nor does it have a brain, but those are risks that I am aware of and willing to take. I guess you think all the big name explorers that have ever dove solo are strokes as well. And all the british divers that do solo diving. I know, I know......if I dive solo, I'm gonna die, right? If I don't have a buddy I trust to dive with, I dive solo. Trust me, I'm not the only one. I have confidence in my abilities, and know the risks.

Ever really think about how often you are diving solo, even though you may have a buddy in the same ocean/cave?

Mike

[tchil01]

Since I missed this threads tangent on diving solo, let me add to my post ablve that I do dive with a buddy.. and he also has a pony bottle. If something happens, he or I can go to our own pony as a backup.. and we both then go up. If need be, we can share our pony... and we do practice that too.

ok, now back to your regularly schedule DIR debate. :D

Ty

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Aviatrr
Trust me, I'm not the only one. I have confidence in my abilities, and know the risks.

Ever really think about how often you are diving solo, even though you may have a buddy in the same ocean/cave?

Mike

You're right, you're not the only one. I also dive this way. Even though there are other people in the area, I rarely have a specific buddy. I prefer it that way.

Tom

[Burke]

about not having a trustworthy buddy, I would agree that diving solo would be better then diving with someone that is going to be likely to be cause more problems then they could solve. I guess I kinda take it for granted that I have a dive buddy that I do all my diving with and know I can really on, if that wasn't the case (like if I ever had the money to go on a trip) I can see how being by yourself could even be safer then diving with someone dangerous. That being said I still feel that anyone that doesn't have I good dive buddy should be looking for one rather then just thinking the can get by by them selves, maybe you can do 3000 dives by yourself and never have a problem, but if you do someday have something go wrong that you can't take care of by yourself it is sure nice to know that there is someone down there looking out for you.
One last thing, I did not mean to offend anyone with my previous comment about strokes, nor do I mean to offend anyone with this post, I am just expressing my opinion and hope we can discuss the issue with me accidentally pissing anyone of.