If your heirs can sue....

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

rsdancey

Contributor
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
Location
Seattle
# of dives
100 - 199
In the thread regarding the New Jersey on-line purchase, a poster replied with a link to this article:

http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s040413a/s040413a.html

Summary: A tech diver in an instructional course died on a course dive. He was divorced. His ex filed a wrongful death lawsuit on behalf of their 13 year old daughter. The state appellet court (one step below the state Supreme Court) has ruled unanimously that the suit can proceed against the dive shop.

What this means, at least in New Jersey, is that you cannot waive your heirs' rights to sue if you die while diving. In short, every time you dive under the supervision of some 3rd party, you place that 3rd party at risk of bankruptcy if you die. Even if you die doing something stupid. Depending on how large the medical bills are, that might apply even if all that happens is that you get bent and can't recover enough to resume your original occupation and/or child support payments. (Most small retailers probably have zero safety margin, and even a "small" $10,000 settlement would kill them.)

The article says that nobody expects any major fallout over this decision, as diving accidents are rare. That may be true, but I suspect that over a reasonable length of time, say 10 years or so, a significant number of dive stores probably suffer a fatality to one of their dive students (even if the fatality is really an underwater heart attack, the likely coronor's report will be "death by drowning"). Worse, the more "technical" the instruction, the fewer locations will offer training, meaning that higher-risk instruction gets concentrated into a small number of stores, with vastly increased chances of being the supervisor during a fatality.

This looks like Russian Roulette to me. Any dive professionals care to comment?

Ryan
 
rsdancey:
This looks like Russian Roulette to me. Any dive professionals care to comment?

Ryan

Well.... You gotta manage your risks and keep up your insurance in this game. That much is clear.

On the whole, getting sued isn't really a big problem, even in countries where every interaction with other human beings carries a certain degree of liability exposure. Also, there are countries where this kind of thing either doesn't happen or it happens rarely in cases where the instructor really had it coming.

I'd say for the most part these kinds of stories just make mountains out of mole-hills.

R..
 
rsdancey:
In the thread regarding the New Jersey on-line purchase, a poster replied with a link to this article:

http://www.cdnn.info/safety/s040413a/s040413a.html

Summary: A tech diver in an instructional course died on a course dive. He was divorced. His ex filed a wrongful death lawsuit on behalf of their 13 year old daughter. The state appellet court (one step below the state Supreme Court) has ruled unanimously that the suit can proceed against the dive shop.

What this means, at least in New Jersey, is that you cannot waive your heirs' rights to sue if you die while diving. In short, every time you dive under the supervision of some 3rd party, you place that 3rd party at risk of bankruptcy if you die. Even if you die doing something stupid. Depending on how large the medical bills are, that might apply even if all that happens is that you get bent and can't recover enough to resume your original occupation and/or child support payments. (Most small retailers probably have zero safety margin, and even a "small" $10,000 settlement would kill them.)

The article says that nobody expects any major fallout over this decision, as diving accidents are rare. That may be true, but I suspect that over a reasonable length of time, say 10 years or so, a significant number of dive stores probably suffer a fatality to one of their dive students (even if the fatality is really an underwater heart attack, the likely coronor's report will be "death by drowning"). Worse, the more "technical" the instruction, the fewer locations will offer training, meaning that higher-risk instruction gets concentrated into a small number of stores, with vastly increased chances of being the supervisor during a fatality.

This looks like Russian Roulette to me. Any dive professionals care to comment?

Ryan

In our store, we have always understood that a diver cannot waive SOMEONE elses rights. Waivers are only operative for the individual who signs the waiver. However, a well written waiver that makes it clear that the diver wishes his heirs to not sue, and clearly stating that he knows the risks of the activity in which he is engaging, serves as pretty good evidence in a court case. It doesn't stop the suit, but may help in prevailing should it come to court. If anyone is interested, I have posted a link to OUR waiver, which we think does the best possible for our interests. Thanks.

Dive Sports Travel FAQ and Travel Waiver

Phil Ellis
Dive Sports Online
www.divesports.com
(800) 601-DIVE
 
PhilEllis:
In our store, we have always understood that a diver cannot waive SOMEONE elses rights. Waivers are only operative for the individual who signs the waiver. However, a well written waiver that makes it clear that the diver wishes his heirs to not sue, and clearly stating that he knows the risks of the activity in which he is engaging, serves as pretty good evidence in a court case. It doesn't stop the suit, but may help in prevailing should it come to court. If anyone is interested, I have posted a link to OUR waiver, which we think does the best possible for our interests. Thanks.

Dive Sports Travel FAQ and Travel Waiver

Phil Ellis
Dive Sports Online
www.divesports.com
(800) 601-DIVE

Has been through the courts where it was decided that one persone CAN NOT sign away someone else's rights
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom