when to take DIRF

[wetman]

Could anyone enlighten me as to when/how much experience someone should have before they take the DIRF course?

s

[Uncle Pug]

certs, experience, equipment, ect.

[wetman]

primary buddy and i are almost exactly the same gear configuration (his knife may be a different color but...) we're also within a few dives of each other.

so far ow, aow, rescue, nitrox, o2 provider, NAS 1, ~80 dives in last year (finished course last june), getting mostly DIRish equipment now: pioneer with steel bp and explorer with aluminum bp, double pst 104s with diverite isolation manifold, another set of 104s we can single or double up, few aluminum, new drysuit soon (when its finished being made thanks to my experience with some lowlife punks in ottawa), apeks atx200s for double set with long hose package, tx50 for single set (getting 5 footer package for that too), jetfins, cobra

basically getting the gear and some experience with it to be comfortable before we take the next step. have read the "Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving" book and from all the info i've read on this board and others along with my own negative experiences with some things, this stuff just makes sense. Every time i read about something new, i think back an say ya, that happened or happens to me (or will likely happen to me) etc. For example, fiddling to find my inflator on my ranger - the hose is too long and its not always where i'd hope it is - short hose right at your shoulder makes sense. I never use the shoulder dump valve, so why even have it there. I had an inflator stuck on once, had a slight problem with disconnecting it, wasnt confident my shoulder dump was dumping so i inverted to swim downward til i could figure it out - went to grab my lower over pressure valve and was fiddling to find the little knobby end - had i known that whole pinch the round thing and the string would be between my fingers, that would have been easier. I've been witness to or experienced 4 mares buckles on fins break or snap out in the last few months, most recent was sunday- those simple spring straps on simple fins make sense. I have volos that i'm always aware my legs are going twice as fast as anyone else i'm diving with - of course they're easier and give less resistance: because they dont do anything (useles, useless, useless) - so off to more simple fins (not to mention the rubber at the joints is cracking like i've read here a few times before) . My ranger looks like a jumbled mess of a christmas tree in the front when its all done up with all the danglies and straps. Those wonderful pockets we all think are so important as new divers are useless to anyone but your buddy when you have gloves on and cant grab the knobby end of string attached to the zipper cause it melds in with all the other dangly things on the bc. I cant get to my pockets anyways - my arms barely bend that way - the only pocket i've ever found useful was on my last drysuit's right leg. The ranger rides up on me (didnt get the crotch strap) - i've had some nasty dives lately trying to keep pushing that down. Wobbly tank on a softpack.... (do you get the sense i'm no ranger fan) - i've even had an opportunity or two to sell it but i push these people to go backplate/webbing/wing because of the night and day comparison in comfort. So again, the webbing/backplate combination just makes sense. I've practiced entire safety stops on my buddies octo - no joy cause the hose is too short and even a 2 foot variance in depth (which isnt hard if you're looking off in different directions for any length of time) almost gets it yanked out of your mouth - so obviously longer hose makes sense. (btw, using your buddies octo will certainly wake you up to making sure hes got a quality octo - he had one of those little low profile things that was hard as hell to drag any air out of - so thats recently been changed - dont go cheap there, i can only imagine being out of air at depth and panicy and having the joy of a regulator that doesnt deliver the required ease of breathing handed over to you) I'm just sick and tired of all this small crap going wrong or being just plain uncomfortable.

My first 4 dives with a pioneer have been boring little dives in the past week (well, one was a wreck, but the others were just jumping in and getting wet to just get used to the equip) - but they've been the most comfortable dives i've had from an equipment perspective - its like the equipment now is part of you - i barely even know its there where i was all too aware of being confined in my nylon straightjacket before.

When i see other wing manufacturers offer extra long inflator hoses, after the stuff i've read, and experienced, i think "they just dont get it do they" - i cant imagine a situation where a longer inflator hose than the usually too long hose would be of benefit.

As far as those elastic restricted wings, i thought they looked cool last year as well and was looking forward to getting them. I've read all the back and forth on this board as to why they're not that great or the cats ass depending on your point of view. In looking at wings this year, i put them off as just something thats unneccessarily complicated etc - i dont want to have to worry about adjusting anything more than i have to, or getting the tension right etc. But the one thing that did absolutely set my mind straight on that one was I was in a shop picking up stuff, and a guy came in about his wing. I heard him mention his one side was inflating and his other wasnt. I was thinking, "you know, i guess theres at least some truth to what i've read on scubabboard about that topic... - why why why would you want to add that bit of complication to things." I've never really prescribed to the "they're more or less streamlined than other wings.." but this issue i overheard certainly is something to think about - and i dont think i've read about that one on this board yet. So, back to the simple approach, simple wing design makes sense.

Just trying to assess what the next step should be first. Was thinking about an advanced nitrox and deco procedures course after another 40-50 dives but think the DIRF course might be nice to squeeze in there before that. Neither of us are in any rush so if either of us don't feel confident at that point, we'll put it off til we do.

and if theres anything we should be doing/practicing, that would be good to know as well.

steve

[JimC]

As far as those elastic restricted wings

Just an aside here, I was thinking the pysics behind these things.

Consider:
Boyance is a force of life generated by the mass difference of the volume of water dispaced aposed to the mass of the thing displacing it. The greater the diference in mass, the more lift you get.

Air has mass.

The lift generated by inflating a wing if caused by the amount of water the air displaces.

Its not the amount of air in the wing, it is the -volume- of the air in the wing.

If you compress the air in the wing (ei, bungies), you actualy create less lift, since there is less volume. This causes you to have to inflate the wing more. This means the mass of the air displacing the water is greater. Which means you need even more air to displace more watter to offset the mass of the compressed air in the wing.

All of that means your wing has to be bigger. Not a lot, since air dousn't weight much.. but some. And any streamlinging argument is complete crap. Its the volume of air, not how much is in the wing (mass).

[DNAXdiver]

Did you mean 80 dives last year, or 80 dives total, or that you have only been diving a year, and have all those cards?


Originally posted by wetman
so far ow, aow, rescue, nitrox, o2 provider, NAS 1, ~80 dives in last year (finished course last june)

steve

[wetman]

finished my open water last june so 80 total

[wetman]

forgot one: the equip specialty one as well

[O-ring]

I am taking it next month and you have way more gear and c-cards than I do...

Take it now before you ingrain any bad habits...

[DNAXdiver]

Then you might want to consider taking a break from merit badge collecting, and just go diving for a change. Pay special attention to bouyancy - for some reason, most wreckies are awful at it. When you get so you are totally comfortable in your gear, never have to grope for something wondering where it went, and can hold your position in the water colume without a lot of finning and messing with your BC then you can start thinking about the next step.

Courses can teach you a lot, but they can't teach self sufficiency, or make you comfortable in the water. Only water time does that. Lot of guys get so busy chasing cards they forget the whole point of the game, which is to have fun underwater.


Originally posted by wetman
finished my open water last june so 80 total

[Uncle Pug]

I agree with o-ring... don't waste time learning bad habits... and I will add... stop buying stuff until you have taken the DIRF... that way you will have less to sell on ebay.

btw: you don't get a card after taking the DIRF.... so no worries there about collecting too much plastic
:D

[tombiowami]

I think 35 dives is the requirement for taking the class. Take it, now. I am taking it in a few weeks.

Tommy

[wetman]

The day i stop buying gear is the day i stop diving. I dont think i'll ever have enough. Plus, now i've got lots of friends that have taken diving now (i'm sure just to get me to stop bugging them about taking diving half the time :) ), so theres always enough gear for those who need it.

And, as far as collecting badges go, i never really looked at it that way. The NAS course was for pure enjoyment, and the rest were mostly for interest and found most of them quite enjoyable too - dont think i'd do a course for any other reason. Plus, most of those courses were with people i know and quite enjoy hanging around.

I love this stuff and can't seem to learn enough about it.

A question about the DIRF course - it seems to me to be a fairly unique course in what it offers - do any of the more advanced courses cover some or all of those items or not?

steve

[O-ring]

If you are talking about advanced courses with GUE, no...DIRF is a prerequisite to Tech1/Cave1 and they build from there. I thought I remembered reading somewhere that it did not used to be a mandatory starting point but they were getting too many people enrolling for Tech1/Cave1 that they were having to kick out of the class because their basic skills were unacceptable.

However, I just looked at GUE's site and can't find that it is MANDATORY, but it mentions an equivalent course is required...what would you consider equivalent to DIRF? Certainly not PADI OW...

I would do DIRF first...

[tombiowami]

GUE Tech or Cave classes assume you have mastered for the most part the DIRF skills or you get sent home to practice and come back. They will kick you out of class the first day if you are not up to par.

There is a wealth of info along these lines on the GUE website.

Tommy

[DNAXdiver]

Yah I guess you might have a point if you look at the DIRF course as an antidote for all the other courses. But I get dismayed as tech comes out of the closet at how many divers are just working their way through the courses without evr doing any diving in between (and I'm not saying that Wetman is one of them) - it makes you wonder what their goal is and if they really enjoy diving or if they are just in love with the gear and the image of themselves as big bad techdivers. You see guys showing up for deep trimix courses who have only a handful of dives that were done outside of a class. No tech course gives the student mastery of the skills being taught - they just give the student the background to start mastering the skills on their own. If the student thinks of each course as just prerequisite to the next, rather than as an invitation or challenge to put the new skills to use and master them before going to the next level they are shortchanging themselves. As it is we are seeing abominations like students turning up for deep trimix courses wearing a drysuit for the first time, or using stages for the very first time on their first 200'+ trimix dive. And accidents.




Originally posted by Uncle Pug
I agree with o-ring... don't waste time learning bad habits... and I will add... stop buying stuff until you have taken the DIRF... that way you will have less to sell on ebay.

btw: you don't get a card after taking the DIRF.... so no worries there about collecting too much plastic
:D

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by DNAXdiver
But I get dismayed as tech comes out of the closet at how many divers are just working their way through the courses without evr doing any diving in between
It just isn't that way with GUE at all... in fact some folks have to do a bunch of remedial diving before they can even *pass* the DIRF much less pass tech and cave classes...

In fact you could consider DIRF to be remedial diving...

And once you do get to the plastic packin' part you will have to submit yearly logs verifying dives to your cert. level to keep your plastic...

A GUE plastic packer can definitely do the dives listed on the plastic.... competently.

[wetman]

Which i think comes back to my orig. question. I likely should have said when/how much/ WHAT KIND of experience...

Not sure i could have done any more diving if i wanted to last year - didnt really start til late july, stopped around the end of dec. and just restarted in april (with 1 in jan). The 80 i did mention were outside of classes. I'd go every day if i could but real life takes precidence unfortunately.

The one thing thats certain is as I get better at certain things I've noticed the diving getting more enjoyable, which is why if theres a course that could point me in a better direction, I think that will help me enjoy this stuff much more. And from what i've seen, the DIRF looks like it may help there. Not even sure i want to go beyond that yet and not even sure i would want to go GUE - and i'm not sure theres even much option up here, i only know of one GUE shop and would use the DIRF course to see if i liked the instructor or not.

steve

[DNAXdiver]

OK you aren't one of them (sigh of relief) but my point is still well taken :-)

Let us know how the DIRF goes!


Originally posted by wetman
The 80 i did mention were outside of classes. I'd go every day if i could but real life takes precidence unfortunately.
steve

[PA/NJdiver]

I just took the DIRF course this past weekend with Andrew. We had a guy in the class that only had 25 dives. Even though his skills were not good, he now knows what to work on and what to strive towards. There is no sense wasting any time. Take the class and then practice your butt off. You won't regret it. By the way, Andrew teaches his OW students to do the skills we did in the DIRF class.

I highly recommend this class to everyone.

Stacey