Another dreaded BP/W question

I know the "which BP/W question" has been asked 1,000 times, and I have searched and read all of those threads, but still have a question.

I have been using a vest BC (Seaquest Pro QD+) for about a year. It is ok, but I want more control, better buoyancy, trim, etc. I have read all the bp/w threads until my eyes pop out of my head. I have spent so much $$ on dive gear the past year on regulators, wetsuits, fins, masks, etc. that my wife is ready to shove a tank up my a@$. I am just a recreational diver, single tank only, no plans of doubles or DIR stuff anytime soon. I have researched all the major manufacturers harnesses, wings, and plates, and seem to be more confused now than ever.

Here is my delimma. I don't want to spend a ton of money. I like the idea of a Hogarthian harness.....simple, cheap, easy to replace. I worry a little about donning, but have read that most have no problem. I am 5'8" and 165 pounds and of normal proportions so hopefully it wouldn't be a problem. Second, I am a little worried about weight. Currently, I use 10 pounds when wearing a 3 mil full suit. If I go with a SS backplate with an STA, am I going to be overweighted? Do the adjustable harnesses(DSS, OMS, DiveRite Transplate) give you the same benefits of using a backplate as if you were using a 1 piece harness?? Or do they allow a little movement of the backplate with all the plastic buckles and stuff?

So far, I like the DSS single tank rig with 30# wing the best. I am riding the fence on whether to get a 1 piece harness or adjustable. The OMS and Oxycheq stuff looks nice as well. Samish Divers on Ebay has an Oxycheq rig with 1 piece harness, SS plate, and wing for about $350. Is this a good deal or should I just go ahead and get the DSS single kit?

I know this topic has been beaten to death, and I apologize for asking the same old questions again, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

dirthead:

I know the "which BP/W question" has been asked 1,000 times, and I have searched and read all of those threads, but still have a question.

I have been using a vest BC (Seaquest Pro QD+) for about a year. It is ok, but I want more control, better buoyancy, trim, etc.

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If your system is fairly new, probably you don't need to go out and replace it right away. I bought a BP/Wing system, and I like it, but I don't think it is the answer to improvement of your buoyancy, trim, control, etc.

Instead of spending more money and worrying about the right equipment, why not just get out there and dive with what you have? Especially since you want to save money and say that you don't want to spend a lot. You can work on all of those issues, maybe find an experienced dive buddy, maybe take another course, and most of all just practice.

I say this only because you cite improvement of skills and saving money as high on your priority list. *I don't think a new BC is a magic bullet for skills.* You can always experiment with distributing weight a little differently too, perhaps a little on your cam straps for example. I do like the BP/Wing system I have, but if I were you I might focus on skills first and then maybe treat myself after another year of diving. Probably you will appreciate the benefits of switching more after that anyway (and your wife will appreciate you too!)

If you really are set on spending the money just recognize that it is not an essential purchase. Primarily you will be more streamlined and have a different weight distribution, but I've seen dive instructors in jacket BCs with buoyancy control, good trim, etc. So if you want to get the BP/Wing then I just suggest getting one that is proven and well known (like Halcyon, DSS, Oxycheq wing with a reputable plate like DSS). I recently posted a thread here about my wife's BP/Wing system where she ended up with a plate that was inadequately finished (though marketed as dive ready).

Answering a couple of your specific questions, the SS BP will weigh about 5 or 6 lbs. Then you'll still need the extra 4 to 5 pounds of ditchable lead (also depending on whether you get an STA-less system or not). I'm satisfied with the basic harness, but my wetsuit offers more padding than yours (two-piece 6.5 mil).

My wife offered some advice too. She said (if you haven't already) get your wife enrolled in a scuba diving class. Then she'll be more sympathetic to your expenditures! Also, maybe when she is ready to purchase a BC it's a chance for you to "upgrade."

Why not just get an aluminum backplate? That way, you'll still have a few pounds of weight on your belt or whatever. If you decide you want more weight later, you can just pick up a steel plate on Ebay or whatever. I went the other route, buying a steel plate because there was no price penalty. And Alum. plates are 1/3 the cost of steels.

I love the look of the DSS stuff and the Oxy stuff looks good to. I bought a Halcyon because they are local. Dive Rite is local as well, but the design of their single wings leaves something to be desired from what I can tell.

Perhaps you can recoup some of the money you've spent by selling some stuff here or on Ebay. That's what I would do.

Sometimes it's better to be single... (like when I fork over for that 18w can light!)

dirthead:

I have been using a vest BC (Seaquest Pro QD+) for about a year. It is ok, but I want more control, better buoyancy, trim, etc. I have read all the bp/w threads until my eyes pop out of my head. I have spent so much $$ on dive gear the past year on regulators, wetsuits, fins, masks, etc. that my wife is ready to shove a tank up my a@$. I am just a recreational diver, single tank only, no plans of doubles or DIR stuff anytime soon. .

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Sounds like a bad case of GEARITIS. The advantage of the vest BC over the plate is that it won't hurt as much, when the wife hits you over the head with it.

I have an aluminum plate, a 40# Oxycheq wing and an E8-130. I dive tropical and like the setup.

You know you want a bigger tank

In answer to your question about over weighting, I'd say YES, a SS Plate/STA combo is about 8 lbs. it can make a mess of your trim trying to put all that on your back.
There are options, Al and/or plastic. Both Plates and STAs can be found in either of those matierials. The plastic plate has a rather bad ( and, I feel, an undeserved ) reputation for breaking, at least when used with single tank rigs. The plastic STAs ( the ones I have seen anyway ) have the same reputation. The Al plate is a good comprimize between SS and plastic and weighs about 2 lbs.

One good thing of the BP/W is it's 'modular', if you invest in a rig it is (relativly) cheap to change your mind and upgrade one piece without buying a complete rig.

I'd go with an Al plate and an Al STA - that's about 3 lbs on your back. It's just a perference of mine but I like to keep the weight about equal between 3 points around my body.

Here is a link to a very good wing for single tank diving, I'v used this wing for more than 6 years now and it is the best thing for the price.
http://www.diverssupplyusa.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=16017

You really don't need an adjustable harness, but added the cost is fairly small.
You May need to add weight pockets to that - I use DiveRites, but that is up to you.

dirthead:

I am just a recreational diver, single tank only, no plans of doubles or DIR stuff anytime soon.

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You don't need to be enrolled in a DIR-F class to enjoy the benefits of a BP&W

dirthead:

I have researched all the major manufacturers harnesses, wings, and plates, and seem to be more confused now than ever.

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There are a lot of choices, but the basic idea is pretty straight forward, plate + wing + harness + some means of tank mounting.

dirthead:

Here is my delimma. I don't want to spend a ton of money. I like the idea of a Hogarthian harness.....simple, cheap, easy to replace. I worry a little about donning, but have read that most have no problem.

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Don't, If you are 5'8. 165 with normal flexibility you should have no problems, with either a single piece harness or an adjustable harness

dirthead:

Currently, I use 10 pounds when wearing a 3 mil full suit. If I go with a SS backplate with an STA, am I going to be overweighted?

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Some BP&W are designed so you don't need a STA, I prefer not to use STA's.

dirthead:

Do the adjustable harnesses(DSS, OMS, DiveRite Transplate) give you the same benefits of using a backplate as if you were using a 1 piece harness?? Or do they allow a little movement of the backplate with all the plastic buckles and stuff?

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I can't speak to the "other" adjustable harnesses sold, but properly adjusted, either of our harnesses will offer the same level of security.

dirthead:

So far, I like the DSS single tank rig with 30# wing the best.

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dirthead:

I am riding the fence on whether to get a 1 piece harness or adjustable.

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If you can get in and out OK, no shoulder problems etc., and don't change exposure suits frequently, get the single piece. They are rugged, simple, and cheaper! If you need quick and easy adjustment frequently consider the adjustable.


Regards,



Tobin

The cheapest set up for single tanks I have seen is the jet harness plate and wing with a single piece harness (dive rite works fine). )$70-plate, $120-wing, $50 harness and crotch strap)This is what I bought, as I wanted to get some experience with a BP/wing without spending a lot of money. I like the jet harness set up and have no regrets. I do think the DSS set up is better, or at least more flexible. With the jet harness you're really limited to either their wing or the dive rite travel wing due to the way it attaches, (I think) and doubles are not possible. For me, that's no big deal as I need very little lift. (27lbs is plenty)

The set up is about 5-6 lbs negative; with my old BC, I used 10lbs or so in a 3mil, (salt water) now I use 4 max, but usually I can get away with 2, most likely because the old BC had some inherent buoyancy. In the ocean in a shorty or in fresh water I'm pretty neutral with no lead. We're about the same size so I would suspect you'd have about the same weight situation.

DSS stuff is nice, but getting up there in cost. I purchased a Hammerhead plate, stainless but I dive cold water (Canada). If I were you, I would get the AL plate.
http://hammerheadscuba.com/hh2alum.htm

Check prices here: http://hammerheadscuba.com/pricepoint.htm
$70 for the plate and STA. Hard to beat that price, and the quality is great.

Dirt,

I think that Raposa gave you some good advice. But, if you've been bit by the BP/wing bug and just have to get one, then the perfect solution for you would be to order Tobin's Hogarthian Single Rig.

http://www.deepseasupply.com/page12.html

445 dollars? Wow! That is probably the finest quality setup available for any price. If you are concerned about weighting and trim issues this setup will definitely not be too heavy and you still have the option of adding an STA later if you find that you would like to get rid of the weight belt. Plus...if you go to a more buoyant exposure suit requiring more weight, then you can put on a set of his weight plates. You really can't do any better than this...quit worrying about it and order it tonight.

CIBDiving:

In answer to your question about over weighting, I'd say YES, a SS Plate/STA combo is about 8 lbs. it can make a mess of your trim trying to put all that on your back.

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Maybe...I guess...for certain folks. But this combo is simply perfect for a lot of us.

CIBDiving:

One good thing of the BP/W is it's 'modular', if you invest in a rig it is (relativly) cheap to change your mind and upgrade one piece without buying a complete rig.

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Most definitely.

CIBDiving:

Here is a link to a very good wing for single tank diving, I'v used this wing for more than 6 years now and it is the best thing for the price.
http://www.diverssupplyusa.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=16017

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I'm sure that you like it. But I gotta say... that baby looks WAY too big for a single.

dirthead:

I have been using a vest BC (Seaquest Pro QD+) for about a year. It is ok, but I want more control, better buoyancy, trim, etc. I have read all the bp/w threads until my eyes pop out of my head. I have spent so much $$ on dive gear the past year on regulators, wetsuits, fins, masks, etc.

Click to expand...

Sounds familar!!! I started with a ProQD+ (which is a good BC) also and later switched over to BP+Wing. I do still keep my ProQD+ for my confinet water assitance but mainly use BP+Wing for diving......................don't want to count how much money I have put in for equipments.

dirthead:

Here is my delimma. I don't want to spend a ton of money. I like the idea of a Hogarthian harness.....simple, cheap, easy to replace. I worry a little about donning, but have read that most have no problem. I am 5'8" and 165 pounds and of normal proportions so hopefully it wouldn't be a problem. Second, I am a little worried about weight. Currently, I use 10 pounds when wearing a 3 mil full suit. If I go with a SS backplate with an STA, am I going to be overweighted?

Click to expand...

As some posted, you can use your backplate without a STA so you can still manage to have some detachable weights if you prefer. I needed about 8 lbs of weight when diving with my aluminum BP (weights 1.5lb) and is switching over to stainless BP (5lb). This means I would still need 3-4 lbs of weight. These extra weights would alow me to distribute weights for triming.

dirthead:

.......I like the idea of a Hogarthian harness.....simple, cheap, easy to replace..............Do the adjustable harnesses(DSS, OMS, DiveRite Transplate) give you the same benefits of using a backplate as if you were using a 1 piece harness?? Or do they allow a little movement of the backplate with all the plastic buckles and stuff?

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I have just converted my harness from DiveRite TransPlate to a 1-piece webbing coz I am heading toward DIR and likes their philosophy on the system. Plastic quick-releases are not used for a reason. (I am not qualified to say what is DIR and what isn't as yet.) But I have to say that those adjustable harness makes gearing up more convenient. But once you are used to the continuous webbing, should be ok.



I switched over to BP+Wing before I even know anything about DIR or Hogarthian system. Attracted by what people have to say about its performance. Took the courage and went out to get it. Enjoyed it alot and prefer to dive in it more than my ProQD+.