LDS vs. Online

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Jeff Toorish

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This post is meant as a point of discussion, not to incite a flame war. But it is something that I believe should be discussed.

I've noticed a thread or two on SB that suggests going to the local dive shop and checking out gear, and then ordering it online at a discount. Often when people ask for advice, someone will suggest an online retailer for the best price.

Personally, I have nothing against online retail. On occasion I order from an online store when the items are hard to find and I need them quickly.

But all this raises a point of concern. I like having a local dive shop where I can feel, hold, touch, try the merchandise before I buy it. Not to mention, if there is a problem, I can go back to have it corrected. (Although, in all honesty, I have never had a problem returning anything online, either.)

I'm a photographer and friends often offer to give me software to load on my computer...or even hacked software they have found somewhere. Adobe products seem to be a favorite. I always politely decline because, selfishly, I would like to see Adobe stick around and keep coming up with new stuff.

The same is true of LDS vs. Online. I mean, honestly, don't we want our local dive shops to stick around?

A disclaimer, I actually own an online business...so this is not a shot at the online world. I believe in cyber-commerce...just not at the expense of the local businesses.

Safe Diving

Jeff
 
jtoorish:
I've noticed a thread or two on SB that suggests going to the local dive shop and checking out gear, and then ordering it online at a discount.
What threads have you seen that suggested in?!?

I own an online diveshop, and that's a very unethical suggestion for anyone to make on the board. There's hundreds of threads talking about cheaper gear online, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this board recommend to another user that they go check out gear in a diveshop, then go and buy the same gear online.
 
WOW..this should be interesting......
 
Scubaroo:
What threads have you seen that suggested in?!?
I've seen that suggested in passing a couple times, in the last few days even.

I don't think it was done maliciously; it just sounded as if the people hadn't really thought the ethics through.

I'm a strong believer in on-line purchasing, especially considering the ridiculous prices around here in Europe... much less competition and price flexibility than in the U.S.

But then, I'm in an enviable position of having access to U.S. shipping rates and being exempt from customs.

But I agree it's not ethical to use an LDS to try stuff on, with the intention of buying on-line. You just have to understand and accept the risks (all of them) when you buy on-line.

--Marek
 
I have no respect for people who do this, if you want advice you pay for it if you dont need it then folk can go ahead online. I do both, if I know what I want then Im happy to buy online, if I need advice then I got to my lds. I like to try to use my lds as much as poss cos I know that just servicing fills will not keep a shop in business.

Also, for those who complain about higher costs in an lds, you need to consider several factors:

* The wages of the shop staff who provide you with advice and service.
* The convenient location of the shop and the rates the shop gets ripped off with by
local councils esp in the uk.
* The lower no of units sold per lds than an online site.
 
Using a LDS for sizing and walking out without any intention of purchasing is unethical.

However, I do try on gear, research pricing and then go back and ask the owner if they will match price plus 10%. There are several shops locally and I have got varied reactions. And yes I am no longer welcome in one of those shops. But another has made peace with the fact that I may be cheap but I keep coming back, they get all of my gas/hydro's/vips/reg-services/training dollars now.

I personally wish to retain the LDS system, but at what point does one change from valued customer to "mark"/schmuck. I have set that at 10%.

There is an etiquette to this: never in front of other customers, year/make/model/condition must be exact match, no gripping about delivery times (if they order it and takes two weeks instead of one), and don't haggle over anything marked less than 20 USD.
Also I never reference LeisurePro when researching, just doesn't seem like a real "comparable".

Just being who I am.
Good luck and good diving.
 
Just out of curiosity, why is it unethical to do that in an lds....but then do it in a car lot or walmart or anywhere else? Im always checking things out for the best deal. I might look at life support gear in the dive sport different than buying a car....but unethical ? A little harsh I think.

Money is getting tighter every day and the thought that all divers can afford expensive gear is ridiculous. I was in an lds last week and saw a small dive light for $21.95. I went to Dicks's... a multiple sport shop.....and saw the same exact same light for just $7.95. Come on people....if that is unethical for me to buy the light at a 2/3's savings...then so be it.

The dive industry needs to revamp how they do business or we will all be getting our air fills from the fire house like we used to.
 
RICHinNC:
Just out of curiosity, why is it unethical to do that in an lds....but then do it in a car lot or walmart or anywhere else? Im always checking things out for the best deal. I might look at life support gear in the dive sport different than buying a car....but unethical ? A little harsh I think.

Money is getting tighter every day and the thought that all divers can afford expensive gear is ridiculous. I was in an lds last week and saw a small dive light for $21.95. I went to Dicks's... a multiple sport shop.....and saw the same exact same light for just $7.95. Come on people....if that is unethical for me to buy the light at a 2/3's savings...then so be it.

The dive industry needs to revamp how they do business or we will all be getting our air fills from the fire house like we used to.

The caveat for me relates to intention,
Do you test drive the car without allowing the lot to try sell it to you?
Would you buy the light at the dive shop for $1 more just to keep them around?
 
RICHinNC:
Just out of curiosity, why is it unethical to do that in an lds....but then do it in a car lot or walmart or anywhere else? Im always checking things out for the best deal. I might look at life support gear in the dive sport different than buying a car....but unethical ? A little harsh I think.

Money is getting tighter every day and the thought that all divers can afford expensive gear is ridiculous. I was in an lds last week and saw a small dive light for $21.95. I went to Dicks's... a multiple sport shop.....and saw the same exact same light for just $7.95. Come on people....if that is unethical for me to buy the light at a 2/3's savings...then so be it.

The dive industry needs to revamp how they do business or we will all be getting our air fills from the fire house like we used to.

Why do I consider it unethical? I see them as 2 different business / service models. The logistics and what they offer are very different and that needs to be recognized to whatever point you value the local touch versus arm chair shopping online.

If I go to the LDS and see or try something I like I don't consider myself oblidged to pay any asking price but if they will deal withn 10 or even 20% of an online selling price then they have earned my business and in my short time diving may patronage has paid of handsomely with them solving some problems very expeditiously letting me salvage days or weeks of diving. To me that's value.

Pete
 
Would I buy for only $1 more....sure. But that is very different than a $14 difference. I understand supply and demand...but I also understand gouging.

As far as any salesman TRYING to sell me a car or anything else.... thats their job....I expect that. I can look at any potential item and listen to a sales pitch, but it doesnt mean I have to buy from that particular location. If they are willing to haggle thats fne with me. If they get upset when I say ...why is your product this price....and a mile down the road its that price? What makes it so special here? .... Believe it or not, I believe in supporting my lds, but I believe in reasonable pricing and fair practices too.

I dont buy into this idea of buy from your lds or you will never get air again. Lds's will change their business practices long before that ever happens. Many are learning now to get on the internet bandwagon and have an online store of their own. The cost factor for doing so versus the profit factor makes the endeavor very worthwhile. Those lds's that just bury their heads in the sand and moan about the internet will be the ones holding going out of business sales.

And as far as intention goes, I intend to get the most out of my hard earned dollar. I am very lucky in that I live between to big towns and there are at least 6 dive shops in the area. That gives me some choice. I say some because as we all know how the manufacturer's limit a shops product line. Regardless, at least I can do a good bit of shopping around before I have to resort to on line searches.

I support anyones desire to purchase only from an lds. If they feel that is the only way to go...fine....but I dont think it is fair calling people unethical because they want better alternatives.
 
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