Restructuring Certifications

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durian

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Ok, almost all of my dives have been training dives. Actually, I have very few dives, but I have my Rescue Cert with PADI. I don't begrudge that, the school I went through was very thorough and added extra days onto both my AOW and my Rescue training. However, I am no where near as good of a diver as someone with an AOW who has 100 dives. I am very inexpereinced and now my focus will be on gaining expereince, rather than getting any more cards. Anyway, I woke up about 3AM this morning thinking about this card system. Strange I know. I cam eup with this:

Basic Open Water

Open Water (becomes Advanced after 30 dives)

Basic Rescue ( becomes Rescue after 40 dives)

The rest remains the same. I just think that there needs to be more emphasis on experience. When I got my AOW, I was hardly an advanced diver, and I still am not that.
 
Perhaps you need to scrutinize your training agency and how they train and certify divers. In my research, I've found that very few agencies are stringent about proficiency. This would seem fundamental to issuing a card, but apparently not.

It seems that unless you get to real technical diving (cave, wreck, deco, trimix) the idea is to give you some background info, get you in the water a few times, and mail you a card. Ever notice that you better agencies keep you in class a WEEK for serious technical training? They cost real money, and you better have your sh!t together too. And you might not pass. Which seems unheard of in recreational classes.

People talk a lot of crap about GUE, but they were the ONLY agency I could see that had the stones to fail an unprepared student, even at the recreational level. This is not to say other agencies don't offer good classes. But I'd rather fail a class if I am not ready, than to pass just because I paid money, if I am unsafe at that level. Unfortunately, others don't seem to agree with that viewpoint.

As far as experience goes, I think you're right. I don't think you should even be ALLOWED to take advanced until you have 30-50 dives. But then, what qualifies as advanced should really be covered in basic o/w class. At least in my opinion.
 
Just to show you how naive I am, I thought you had to have a certain number of dives before you did certain advanced certifications. I'm PADI OW and Wreck and Naui AOW, Nitrox. I never even thought of doing any other certifications until I got the feel for the one I had then I went on. I now have about 150 dives and am preparing myself for Rescue but I probably won't certify for it until next year.

For me it's not how many certifications you have but how well do you dive and understand the basic rules of diving. Advancing for me would and will be to make me a better diver; not bragging rights about how many certifications I have or how many dives I have or how much air I come up with after a dive (and I'm really good on air). You kind of loose if you go that route. Besides what's the point in diving if all you are going to do is take certification classes...are you going to teach or be a dive master? When are you going to just dive, just to enjoy it...that's the point to enjoy the beauty of the sea without destroying it.

PerroneFord:
Perhaps you need to scrutinize your training agency and how they train and certify divers. In my research, I've found that very few agencies are stringent about proficiency. This would seem fundamental to issuing a card, but apparently not.

It seems that unless you get to real technical diving (cave, wreck, deco, trimix) the idea is to give you some background info, get you in the water a few times, and mail you a card. Ever notice that you better agencies keep you in class a WEEK for serious technical training? They cost real money, and you better have your sh!t together too. And you might not pass. Which seems unheard of in recreational classes.

People talk a lot of crap about GUE, but they were the ONLY agency I could see that had the stones to fail an unprepared student, even at the recreational level. This is not to say other agencies don't offer good classes. But I'd rather fail a class if I am not ready, than to pass just because I paid money, if I am unsafe at that level. Unfortunately, others don't seem to agree with that viewpoint.

As far as experience goes, I think you're right. I don't think you should even be ALLOWED to take advanced until you have 30-50 dives. But then, what qualifies as advanced should really be covered in basic o/w class. At least in my opinion.
 
Completely agree. However, I don't know HOW many times I have seen people talk about taking AOW a month after finished their OW. Or OW divers taking AOW after sitting out of the sport for a few years as a "refresher". I will never fault someone for seeking more information or trying to increase their knowledge in an endeavor, but the fault of a lot of this is on the agencies. If they would stop letting people with less than 25 dives take an advanced class, we might find that people showing up for classes actually had been in the water a bit.

I'm probably going to look guilty as hell when I take Nitrox this month. I have very few logged dives. But I know that I am in the pool 3-4 days a week working on my diving skill. And I will be out in the real water just as often as I can. Being a good diver takes effort. And you can't do it diving a few times a year no matter WHAT certification card you have.



Brown Mermaid:
For me it's not how many certifications you have but how well do you dive and understand the basic rules of diving. Advancing for me would and will be to make me a better diver; not bragging rights about how many certifications I have or how many dives I have or how much air I come up with after a dive (and I'm really good on air). You kind of loose if you go that route. Besides what's the point in diving if all you are going to do is take certification classes...are you going to teach or be a dive master? When are you going to just dive, just to enjoy it...that's the point to enjoy the beauty of the sea without destroying it.
 
PerroneFord:
I'm probably going to look guilty as hell when I take Nitrox this month. I have very few logged dives. But I know that I am in the pool 3-4 days a week working on my diving skill. And I will be out in the real water just as often as I can. Being a good diver takes effort. And you can't do it diving a few times a year no matter WHAT certification card you have.

<hijack>
Just gotta say, it is defiantly possible to over train. Get out of the pool and go have some fun dood!
</hijack>
 
durian:
Ok, almost all of my dives have been training dives. Actually, I have very few dives, but I have my Rescue Cert with PADI. I don't begrudge that, the school I went through was very thorough and added extra days onto both my AOW and my Rescue training. However, I am no where near as good of a diver as someone with an AOW who has 100 dives. I am very inexpereinced and now my focus will be on gaining expereince, rather than getting any more cards. Anyway, I woke up about 3AM this morning thinking about this card system. Strange I know. I cam eup with this:

Basic Open Water

Open Water (becomes Advanced after 30 dives)

Basic Rescue ( becomes Rescue after 40 dives)

The rest remains the same. I just think that there needs to be more emphasis on experience. When I got my AOW, I was hardly an advanced diver, and I still am not that.
I'm not going to go into a long rant, but I agree with the basic jist of what you're saying. Use the search command at the top of this page and search this issue. It's been debated on this board many times, with many people on both sides of the issue, and the differences in the different agencies as well.
My basic philosophy...the "Advanced" in AOW should mean something, just like the "rescue" in Rescue Diver.
C-Dawg
 
Thanks for the thought man! I'm shakin off 11 years of rust. A few weeks in the pool isn't going to hurt. Not to mention I am still waiting on my bottom timer. Or more correctly, I am waiting on MONEY for a bottom timer! :) Once I get that squared away, I'll be ready to hit the springs.



JimC:
<hijack>
Just gotta say, it is defiantly possible to over train. Get out of the pool and go have some fun dood!
</hijack>
 
Just as an example, I had a rescue diver as a customer last week....she asked for help, saying her weight belt was broken, and the belt kept sliding (this was in gearing up for the dive.) Turns out nothing was wrong with the belt...it was the typical kind of weight belt 99% of divers use (if they don't use integrated)....she was putting the "free" end of the belt through one of the unused "slots" on the BOTTOM of the buckle...rather then THROUGH the buckle itself. (A lot easier to show than to explain) I'd never even seen an OW diver do that! She actually only had 15 dives...so virtually all diving was designed to produce a card for her, ha ha.
 
PerroneFord:
People talk a lot of crap about GUE, but they were the ONLY agency I could see that had the stones to fail an unprepared student, even at the recreational level.

I have seen failures at the OW level in PADI and the AOW level in NAUI.


Ken
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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