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PA/NJdiver
July 4th, 2002, 10:05 AM
This past weekend I participated in the DIR Fundamentals course with Andrew G. and Mike K. Overall, I thought the class was very good with a few exceptions.

Friday evening was introductions of the students to Andrew and an overview of DIR and the weekend.

Saturday morning we were at the quarry. We went over undergarments, drysuits, and backplate rigging. We spent 2 hours in our undergarments and drysuits in the hot sun. This part was not fun. We all made adjustments to our rigging. I found this part to be very informative. After lunch, we spent about 45 minutes to an hour lying in the hot sun on tarps practicing different types of kicks (this was not fun either). We then went over s-drills. While covering s-drills and valve drills, a bit of confusion arose. Mike informed us that we should do valve drills first and then s-drills. After lecturing to us for about 15 minutes on why we do valve drills first and then s-drills, Andrew chimed in and said we do s-drills first and then valve drills. The two need to be on the same page.

We finally got to do our first dive. One group was to go with Mike and another group with Andrew. My buddy and I were in Mike’s group on this dive. I was a bit pissed because we spent the first 30 minutes of the dive hovering around the platform waiting for Mike. My buddy and I would start to do the circuit (they had layed a line starting at the platform, going shallow, and then ending back at the platform) and then Mike would tell us to hold. It was a CF. We finally did get to do the circuit three times, but the other team always got lost. While doing the circuit, we were supposed to practice using the different types of kicks. We were also supposed to demonstrate our helicopter turns and backward kicks. We never got to demonstrate our helicopter turns or backward kicks.

On the second dive, we were with Andrew. We did the four basic skills (regulator removal, primary regulator removal and go to back up, partial flood of mask, and mask removal), valve drills and s-drills.

After these dives, we went to fill tanks and to watch ourselves on video. We reviewed the video and talked about the problems. If you do something correctly, you will never know. I’m assuming if we don’t receive any feedback, we did ok. But you will be told if you did something incorrectly or poorly.

On Sunday, my buddy and I were teamed up with a third diver. Our first dive again was with Mike. We did s-drills, valve drills, OOA horizontal ascents and horizontal descents. We must have done well on these because we didn’t receive any feedback. (Andrew did ask Mike how we did, and he said we did excellent. But we didn’t receive any feedback directly.)

Our final dive was with Andrew. We were supposed to do the four basic skills again and scenarios. Scenarios are where you and your buddy swim the circuit and Andrew would do something to you. We had also asked if we could demonstrate our helicopter turns and backwards kick since we didn’t get to do them the day before. Again, we never got to do them. We also never did the four basis skills with Andrew.

The scenarios were really fun. On the first scenario, Andrew pulled an OOA drill on my buddy and I. We had to follow the line back to the ascent line and ascend. Our second scenario was a no-mask drill. Andrew pulled my mask off as well as my buddy’s mask. We again had to follow the line back to the ascent line and ascend. This was so much fun!! Again, I guess we did ok because we didn’t get any feedback.

We then went to watch the video and listen to Andrew lecture. Andrew’s lecture was very good, and I learned quite a bit.

I was a bit disappointed in the structure (or lack of structure) of the openwater work. I was also disappointed because I didn’t receive a lot of feedback from either Andrew or Mike. When I introduced myself to Andrew Friday evening, I told him I wanted to take Cave I in the fall, and I wanted to know where my skills were at. He never said if my skills were up to par for Cave I or if I should hold off. I will continue to practice everything, but my assumption is that I can move on to Cave I. (I will be in Seattle in a couple of weeks and plan to talk to Andrew then about several things.)

I would highly recommend this class to everyone. Leave your ego at home, go with an open mind, and be prepared to learn.

Stacey

JamesK
July 4th, 2002, 10:13 AM
Sounds both fun and disappointing at the same time. I had read the report on NOVATech about 15 minutes ago for the class. I saw the pictures. I do not envy y'all out ther ein drysuits and undergarments in the sun.

Uncle Pug
July 4th, 2002, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by PA/NJdiver
(I will be in Seattle in a couple of weeks and plan to talk to Andrew then about several things.)
Stacey,
Are you here in the PNW July only?

PA/NJdiver
July 4th, 2002, 12:33 PM
UP,

Yes, I will only be in Seattle July 13-20. I have a business meeting, and I'm taking additional time to go diving.

Stacey

Uncle Pug
July 4th, 2002, 12:42 PM
Shoot.... I was going to invite you out for dive but I won't be available then.... have fun.

Divesherpa
July 4th, 2002, 06:49 PM
Thank you for the excellent trip report. I finally understand why I don't like the DIR/GUE style of teaching. I firmly believe in encouraging people to improve and pointing out the potential problems. It would seem that is not the case in DIRF.

I went through a private DIRF with a friend and it was very informative. Some problems were pointed out and corrected, but for the most part we simply discussed why we did what we did. I changed some things, but not all. My "instructor" agreed with several point that I had as well.
It's sort of like PADI demanding that everyone wear a snorkel. Does everyone need a snorkel? NO Do standards say that you have to wear one? in all but two cases, yes.

I hope that you learned a lot, but also I hope that you continue to dive because it is fun. People who don't wear the exact configuration that you do aren't evil.
It sounds like your class was simply paying for the names to show up. That is sad, but predictable.
Good luck and Good diving

roakey
July 4th, 2002, 08:23 PM
DIRF is NOT a technical class. It's to improve your diving skills, period. It doesn't deal with doubles, stages, deco or overhead. All skills taught are applicable to recreational diving. It certainly does NOT belong in the technical diving note; it belongs right where it started out, in basic scuba discussions!

Please move it back.

Roak

PA/NJdiver
July 4th, 2002, 09:42 PM
I didn't mean to give the impression that I didn't enjoy the class or that I didn't learn anything. I'm also not saying anything against DIR/GUE. I did have a lot of fun in the class, and I also learned quite a bit. Just as our skills can always be improved, so can classes and instruction. I'm someone who likes a bit more structure in my class and a bit more of a debriefing. Knowing what I now know about the class, I would still take it.

My buddy had cave training with JJ, and he says the structure and debriefing were totally different. Now, I don't know if that's because this was a DIRF class and that was cave or if Andrew and JJ teach differently. It could be a combination of both. My buddy mentioned that each student was thoroughly debriefed by JJ on everything they did -- good and bad. Maybe things have changed.

Stacey

O-ring
July 4th, 2002, 10:22 PM
I have DIRF in 2 weeks and JJ is teaching it...Tombiowami is in my class, so we will post a thorough trip report when (if) we get back...

noshow
July 4th, 2002, 11:55 PM
How different or similar are the DIRF courses? Can one count on the same result no matter where and who you take the class with or is it instructor dependant???

O-ring
July 5th, 2002, 02:10 PM
I have heard it differs somewhat from instructor to instructor, but that it is a more predictable offering than most other scuba classes...

ericfine50
July 5th, 2002, 03:08 PM
I will be taking my DIR-F class in August with Andrew and Mike. I will let you guys now how I make out.

Thanks
Eric

jbd
July 5th, 2002, 04:45 PM
picking up on a theme from Divesherpa's & Roakey's posts. Why can't the stuff that is taught in the DIRF course be taught in an AOW & Master Scuba diver course?

Here I was not having any idea what a helicopter turn is and I find out its something I already do on my own without anyone teaching it to me.

The reason I suggest teaching this stuff in the AOW & Master scuba diver courses is that we all know that there is not enough time in practically all OW courses to teach and have the students master several different fin kicks.

PA/NJdiver
July 5th, 2002, 06:30 PM
The stuff "taught" in DIRF class should be taught in OW class (except for maybe valve drills). There is no reason OW students shouldn't be taught these skills.

We got to talk to Andrew a bit in between sessions and after the course. His OW students come out doing the same skills we did in the DIRF class. It can be done if that is the goal. For instance, we were coming in from one of our dives and there was a PADI OW class also coming in. We heard the instructor asking his students what happened to your buoyancy control? There is a peak performance buoyancy class that I'm going to run that would help you with your buoyancy skills. We all looked at each other and wanted to say it should have been taught right from the beginning.

Eric - Have fun in your class. I can't wait to hear about it. You will have a hoot. Andrew and Mike are really funny guys.

Stacey

jbd
July 5th, 2002, 08:24 PM
Stacey,

How many class sessions in Andrews OW class? Most of the OW courses I know of are only 4 to 5 class/pool sessions.

Mike Ferrera is doing 9 sessions I believe. Thats the longest one I've heard of.

I think its great that Andrew teaches those skills in his OW class. I wish more people would do the same. In particular from what I've seen and read over the past year or so not enough emphasis is placed on mastering bouyancy control in OW certifications.

As for the PADI group you mentioned--I think there is considerable difference between an OW cert class and a group taking DIRF class. I may be (and probably am) mistaken but doesn't a person enrolling in a DIRF class have to be a certified diver?

The peak performance bouyancy material and skills should be included in the OW class IMHO.

I am curious about one more thing if you don't mind. If you had to choose just one thing about your DIRF class; what would you consider to be the most valuable lesson you had, that will apply to any future diving you do?


jbd

O-ring
July 5th, 2002, 08:44 PM
I may be (and probably am) mistaken but doesn't a person enrolling in a DIRF class have to be a certified diver?

You must already be certified to take DIRF...although I heard a rumor that GUE might have OW classes someday, but that they have not developed the course material and would need more instructors to teach it...may not be true, but that's what I heard...

PA/NJdiver
July 5th, 2002, 09:31 PM
Andrew has a 9 and 12 day session class.


As for the PADI group you mentioned--I think there is considerable difference between an OW cert class and a group taking DIRF class. I may be (and probably am) mistaken but doesn't a person enrolling in a DIRF class have to be a certified diver?

You missed my point here. I'm comparing Andrew's OW students to the PADI OW students we saw at the quarry. Andrew's OW students can do the same skills (all done neutrally buoyant) that a DIRF class covers. The PADI OW class we saw could not. Yes, Andrew's classes are 9 or 12 day sessions. That does make a difference, but it depends on what you want. A person enrolling in a DIRF class does have to be certified.


I am curious about one more thing if you don't mind. If you had to choose just one thing about your DIRF class; what would you consider to be the most valuable lesson you had, that will apply to any future diving you do?

Man, this is a very tough question. I was practicing today everything I learned in the class. I guess the biggest lesson is that you must always practice. When you think you have it down, continue to practice. Always strive to be better. (I also learned a lot about trim and the ways to adjust it and how small changes make a huge difference.:) )

Stacey

jbd
July 5th, 2002, 10:05 PM
Yep your right. I missed your point about the PADI class.

9 & 12 session classes sounds like a really good course to me.

There's a huge amount of wisdom in your answer to my question IMHO.

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