What is the problem with plastic buckles?

[jonnythan]

I see a lot of people around here knocking plastic Fastex buckles a lot.. many people seem to think that the presence of a plastic buckle makes a piece of equipment childish.

Has anyone ever seen a buckle on an actual piece of equipment break? I have small, relatively light 1" plastic buckles on my cave pack.. that thing routinely gets dropped 30+ feet when full of gear, and it's been in service doing fine for almost two years now. The four layers of cordura are ripping and will go before these buckles break. All of the cavers around here have packs with the same type of buckles.

Now, I can't imagine that anyone treats their scuba gear as badly as I treat my cave pack. Does anyone actually have any evidence to back up their "these buckles will break" theories?

[nickjb]

I'm generally fairly pro plastic parts. I think it can be a great material for making diving equipment. The 'metal good/plastic bad' attitude that some people have is a bit short sighted. Horses for courses, we say.

That said I have seen a couple of broken plasic buckles. Both on the shoulder of rental BCDs. Both held closed with a zip-tie as a repair (I didn't dive with them). I've also seen a few broken stainless steel weight belt buckles too.

[GP]

I broke a plastic fastex buckle on the crotch strap of my Zeagle Ranger. The strap and the buckles were crap. I think the large fastex buckles on BC shoulder straps are pretty durable but not immune from breaking at some point. Also I find the plastic weight belt buckles to be unreliable. I don't use them myself as I use integrated weights in my Ranger BC but next hear when I upgrade from the Ranger to a Halcyon BP/Wings setup I will be making sure my weight belt has a good stainless steel buckle on it. I've seen too many cases of lost weight belts this year because those little plastic pins on the weight belt buckles pop out of the holes or just plain break off. A serious potentially fatal problem if you're at depth and that happens.

[Uncle Pug]

Your little plastic fastex is only holding the bag closed... not much force require unless you over packed ;-) and what is in the bag and how much does it weight johnnythan?

Now imagine climbing up a ladder into a boat wearing 150# of gear on your back plus several deco bottles/stages on your front... all held by that little fastex snap.

Since you have probably never had occassion to use a tech rig lets put it in terms that you will be able to readily identify with:

You are rappeling down a vertical shaft with your rope clipped off to an anchor by the same little plastic fastex snap. How does it feel.

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by GP
A serious potentially fatal problem if you're at depth and that happens.
Not if you are wearing it under the crotch strap of your plate harness.

btw... I am using a seriously heavy duty plastic weight belt buckle that Heath ships with his belts... I told him to go with SS but he had already bought a bunch of these... well I was going to replace it but the thing is so seriously buff I can't see it ever breaking... I don't wear my belt tight anyway so it doesn't even have much force against it. The only down side is that it is slightly bulkier that a SS buckle.

This is an entirely different issue that fastex buckles.

[rcohn]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug
Now imagine climbing up a ladder into a boat wearing 150# of gear on your back plus several deco bottles/stages on your front... all held by that little fastex snap.

What about the great cocern we recently saw about the Fastex buckles on the Halcyon weight system? As I recall these are 1.5 or 2 inch bucles that will never see more than 15 lb. Why do they need to be replaced with metal buckles?

Ralph

[jonnythan]

Point well taken, UP.. Haven't thought about it like that before.
I wasn't really talking about BC buckles specifically, just on equipment in general... Ralph got the question I was wondering about.. do you feel it's an issue to have them on a weight pocket?

BTW, the pack weighs about 10 lbs.. it has several nalgene bottles (water, high calorie food, carbide, emergency heat and first aid gear), 20' of nylon webbing, spare batteries, spare headlight, and sometimes some vertical gear (rack, harness, ascenders, etc).

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by rcohn
Why do they need to be replaced with metal buckles?
They don't need to be replaced because of an inability to hold the load...

The only problem I see is that it is possible for them to be cracked by something rolling into them on deck (or dive vehicle) and then dumping the weight at an inopportune time uw. Probably not a serious problem for those who take care to correctly stow their gear.

[GP]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug

Not if you are wearing it under the crotch strap of your plate harness.


Hmm...interesting, I never thought of doing that. A little added safety measure...or is that just the way it's supposed to be done?

[GP]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug

The only down side is that it is slightly bulkier that a SS buckle.

That's no good then, that'll create more drag and could be a snag hazzard. LOL!!:out:

[100days-a-year]

Proud owner of three broken Fastex type connectors in each case one of the teeth broke after several years of robust use.On was on crotch strap 1 1/2 in.1 was 2 in on a BC.1 was 1 1/2 in on kayak i occasionally dive from.Wifes recreational rig is full of them.My B/P is all SS for reasons UP so simply stated.

[seylerdl]

On several posts, I have seen discussion from people who have had broken fastex plastic buckles, or have had buckles come undone. When (if) I ever get my ACB pockets from Halcyon, I will be a little paranoid about the small (~1") retainer buckles that hold the weights in the pockets. Don't want one to come loose and find 1/2 of my weight falling out! It seems that no one (?) has come up with an elegant solution to this potential problem. In another post I started, FredT mentioned old-style D-ring/strap closures as an alternative. It seems that these would be difficult to undo in an emergency. Seems like we have an opportunity for someone to come up with a stronger, more positively-locking, but still easy to release buckle, perhaps made of SS or other material. I have searched the internet a little, for SS buckles, but have not found exactly what I think we need. If anyone else knows of something, please let us know. On the other hand, I read a reply from Uncle Pug, who, I believe, agreed that the small ACB buckles would only be a problem if they became broken due to damage resulting from, e.g., improper equipment stowage on the dive boat. What do the other DIR divers say about this issue???

Thanks,
Dave:confused:

[large_diver]

I had a pair of ankle weights with fastex buckles -- one has a broken buckle (one of the "teeth" broke after about 10 dives).....but the buckle still stays together.

The other weight disppeared on a night dive......probably same cause....different result.