New to DIR, have some questions.

I'm making my way through the DIR book, and find it to be the most useful book on diving I've ever read. It really seems like the smart way to go, and I plan to buy all DIR gear by Christmas for my Tech class. While reading the book and posts' on the forums, I've run into a buch of questions. For now, I'll only post three of them.

1. I need a little help on selecting a BP and Harness. I know that the Halcyon stuff is very nice but, is it really any different than say an OMS backplate and harness? I don't think OMS sells a DIR compatiable harness so, I'd have to make my own. Not a big deal but having everything ready to go would be nice. Is the Halycon BP and Harness really worth the extra $? I know that there are some people making BPs - FredT and Gary on Ebay. Are these BPs any better? I really want a nice BP and Harness as the core of my rig.

2. I understand how bungees on a wing could cause increased drag. However, wouldn't the bungees prevent the shifting of air in the cell, therefore preventing roll? I've never compared the two so, I don't really know.

3. I'm not quite sure how much lift I will require in a wing. What is a good lift capacity for tech diving using AL and Steel doubles? (AL when wet, Steel when dry.)

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Harnesses: The last time I was at Extreme Exposure I saw that they had "kits" for like $45 (I could be wrong, but it couldn't be much for than that) that included all the webbing, slides, and d-rings that you would need to construct a harness.

Bungees: I've never had a problem with air causing me to roll because my wings weren't bungeed. Well I take that back, I did use a some wings once that were too big for the doubles I was using, which brings me to your last question....

Wing size: I use the same size wings for both my steel and Al doubles. With double Al80's I use a 45lb wing. I have friends that used this size wing in Mexico with double Al80's and liked it as well. My steel doubles are small, they are 85's and I use the 45lb wing with them as well. Depending on what size steel doubles you have or looking at getting will probably determine the size wing you will end up needing.

EZ,

Search on BP, plate and wing in the buoyancy compensator conference, there's a wealth of information there that won't get repeated here, both because it's already been covered over there and because a BP and wings isn't just for technical diving anymore.

Just to quickly touch on your question 2, however. You're right, bungees won't let air shift just like training wheels won't let a bike shift.

Which allows a bike to be used to its full potential? A bike with training wheels or one without?

Roak

Harness - Buy about 17-20 feet of 2 inch webbing. The cost will be about $10-$15. Buy 4 large d-rings, one half d-ring, and 5 keepers. You can make two of your full size dirings bent rings if you prefer. These will cost about $10-$14. Buy one stainless steel buckle and that will be about $5. Make your own according to the link below. Total cost, $25 to $35.

http://www.gue.com/images/equipment/harness-cad.gif


As for the backplate, the OMS ones are very nice. I can not remember if they have slots for a single tank or not, so that might be a consideration. Also, many people are VERY happy with the others like FredT. Personally, I have no problems with my DiveRite, and plan on buying a FredT ss heavy for single tank use.

Bungees - I agree with Wendy. I have never used bungess either, but I have never had a problem with roll in my unbungeed Halcyon 55lb wings.

Wings - like I stated above, I use the 55lb Halcyon wings. They work great with both a heavy steel double 104 and a double Al 80. I have had no problem at all. They even work great with a stage/deco/O2 bottle and heavy steel doubles. You will find a lot of folks use a wing this size. Some, like Wendy, can get away with a smaller wing, while some of us, like me, are too negative to do that. If you are going to be diving a large set of steel doubles, and a stage, get the 55lb.

Jonathan,

I'll focus on question #1 since I just bought my first BP/wings in May.

BPs are more or less the same with minor differences like the quality of the stainless steel. That being said -- I found that FredT offers more "models" than the other mfrs (most sell 1 size in either AL and/or SS). Fred sells BPs made of three different materials (AL, "heavy" SS with more negative buoyancy, and "regular" SS) and 2 sizes (full size and short).

I bought a FredT "heavy" SS full size BP, which is 9 lbs negatively buoyant. For single tank diving, Fred also has 2 different STAs -- 2 piece (less negatively buoyant) and a 1 piece. With the new Halcyon wings with the "integrated STA", some folks say you no longer need an STA; others like the added stability even with the new style wing........I bought an older-style used Halcyon wing with no STA (I bought the 2 piece from FredT). The STA may be irrelevant, since you mentioned doubles in your note.

As for the harness -- you can buy the webbing and pieces yourself, as mentioned above. FredT and Halcyon also sell harness kits -- both come with everything you need to make a "DIR-approved" harness. One thing to consider with Fred's harness kit -- he provides billy-rings (one piece integrated keeper/D-rings) for the chest and left waist D-rings. Some folks like these; others don't. I've seen comments on other boards that DIR instructors have frowned upon the billy-rings since they tend to "stick up" more than a traditional d-ring/keeper combo (supposedly more of a snag hazard, but I'm not sure I buy this. I guess it depends on the type of diving you do). The edges of Fred's rings are also more squared off vs. rounded.

The main advantage to buying a Halcyon BP/wings/harness is that everything comes already set up for you (you obviously need to adjust for proper fit).

Here is a link with some additional info about FredT's products. To get price list or to place an order, e-mail him directly at the address below.

http://www.aulinc.com/Htm_Files/SS Backplates.htm

ftagge@goldinc.com

Good luck

-Chris

Originally posted by large_diver
Jonathan,


As for the harness -- you can buy the webbing and pieces yourself, as mentioned above. FredT and Halcyon also sell harness kits -- both come with everything you need to make a "DIR-approved" harness. One thing to consider with Fred's harness kit -- he provides billy-rings (one piece integrated keeper/D-rings) for the chest and left waist D-rings. Some folks like these; others don't. I've seen comments on other boards that DIR instructors have frowned upon the billy-rings since they tend to "stick up" more than a traditional d-ring/keeper combo (supposedly more of a snag hazard, but I'm not sure I buy this. I guess it depends on the type of diving you do). The edges of Fred's rings are also more squared off vs. rounded.

-Chris

Click to expand...

I will substitute a keeper and D-ring for the Billys on request. I personally prefer the Billys for open water. Cavers have their own rules. The Billys also simplfy harness assembly and reduce part count, thus decreasing costs. As the signature says, I do CUSTOM gear! Everything is negotiable, but once you get outside the defined kits that includes the price.

FT

Hi Fred,

Didn't mean to give a negative impression of Billy Rings -- I prefer them as well!

-Chris

I love my FredT backplate, it's industrial grade! The webbing, however, is very, very stiff. The way I made my crotch strap, it was nearly impossible to do with the webbing supplied. I was trying to adjust it to make the crotch strap longer the other day, and finally just gave up. I boiled it for a while, ran it through the dryer on hot, but it didn't help. I understand that Halcyon's webbing kit has softer webbing for the crotch strap and I hope that's true, cause I ordered one. Fred, you have any comment on this? Do you have any softer webbing?

All (esp FredT),

Just a few quick questions on the plate shown at the link given in previous post:

1) What are the slots at the top (centre) of the plate for?
2) When you rig the STA to the BP do the tank straps go
through both the STA and the BP (does it really matter?).
3) Envisage 2 STA's without the centre dip, now place an
eyelet bolt between 2 STA's with necessary washers - this
can now be used for twins - is the dip really necessary,
pressume it just sits the tank closer to the BP (single tank).

The reason I'm asking is I have a BP and I've been playing around with various configurations. From my basic knowledge and experience I've concluded that a BP with flat STA could be used for single cylinders and an additional flat STA with eyelet bolts and washers could convert this to a flexible twin setup (no manifold but alot more user friendly).

I've tried the flat twin STA's with eyelet bolts but haven't tried the flat STA with just a single cylinder and have never used any other setup.

So is my logic flawed? You guys are the experts so be gentle!

Thanks - Dave.

Oops forgot to ask what the small brackets are for (pictured above the SS buckles).

Later - Dave.