Halcyon or DSS rig?

Hi All,

At the moment I am deciding which to purchase. Either the Halcyon SS BP with the 40lbs Evolve Wing or the DSS SS BP with either the 50 lb LCD or their Torus 45lbs donut wing.

I'm diving a semi dry 6.5 mm neo, but in the future would certainly think about diving dry

I'm using double steel 10.5L faber's

I'd be interested to hear input as to which might work better for me. I have three main quesions

1. In regards to the SS BP themselves, I notice that both do not require a STA. DSS points out that due the angle of their BP, it is a better choice if diving singles. Is this the reason that Halcyon also does not require and STA, or is their configuration (angle of the BP) different again??

2. The wing - I'm pretty sure that I will only need the 40lbs lift, If I went with Halcyon I'd get the 40lb Evolve wing as the 60lb would be over-kill. If I went with DSS I'm faced with two options either the 50 LCD or their Torus 45lb. The main thing that I wondering about here, especially when compared to the Halcyon setup is that the the DSS has no zipper, and therefore less failure points. The lift is also closer to what I need. But if something happens repair wise, say a pinched bladder, am I'm better off with the Halcyon as this can be accessed easier to be repaired??

3. The inflator, I've read that Halcyon has had issues with theirs. Is this something to even be concerned about??

Cheers

Alex

I can only address part of your question, and only really with some of my personal opinions. So here we go...I do not think that either of the backplates you are looking at are terribly different. For that matter, I don't think that any of the popular backplates (Halcyon, DSS, OMS, Hammerhead, Koplin) are terribly different design wise and would all make fine choices. I would be more worried about the length of the plate (some manufactures offer different lengths) rather than the bend in it.

If you are using double tanks then it seems to be a non-issue which one is better for singles diving anyway.

As far as wings go I can only offer information about what I have used. I dive Oxycheq wings, only single tank at this point, but I love them. They make a 40# and 50# doubles wings as well as a new bladderless design in a 50# model. In my opinion, something to consider.

-Keith

I can't comment on doubles wings, since I only dive singles right now, but I can comment on the backplates. I have a DSS SS backplate and an OMS aluminum backplate. The DSS plate is far superior to the OMS in my opinion. It offers several innovative features that you will not find on any other backplate. It has rubber inserts in the webbing slots to eliminate wear and hold the webbing in place without use of triglide. I haven't used a Halcyon plate, but I think they are very similar to the OMS. I have been very impressed with the quality of DSS rig. Their customer service is tops as well. I got a call from DSS out of the blue about 2 months after buying the single tank rig, asking if I was happy with it and if there were any questions I had about the system.

If you have specific questions about DSS versus any others, give Tobin at DSS a call. He will give you a no BS answer and explain all the features of his systems.

alexxred:

In regards to the SS BP themselves, I notice that both do not require a STA. DSS points out that due the angle of their BP, it is a better choice if diving singles. Is this the reason that Halcyon also does not require and STA, or is their configuration (angle of the BP) different again??

Click to expand...

A Halcyon bp would require a STA if used with the Eclipse wing. A STA is not needed for a Pioneer wing (as it "incorporates a built-in single tank adaptor welded into the "backbone" of the wing").

I can only answer as to the backplate...the DSS is a step above IMHO as the harness grommets will make for a very long life for the harness...the DSS at least for me fits and feels better on my back than my Diverite which still feels ok...check out Highland Millworks d-rings which are far superior to anything out there....as to the wing I use a Rec wing I have had for years and it works for me...is better out there....probably....
I'll tread those waters in the future myself someday....
Yarg

Couple things to point out ...

alexxred:

1. In regards to the SS BP themselves, I notice that both do not require a STA. DSS points out that due the angle of their BP, it is a better choice if diving singles. Is this the reason that Halcyon also does not require and STA, or is their configuration (angle of the BP) different again??

Click to expand...

You're talking about diving singles here, but you only mention doubles wings. I would advise against trying to use a doubles wing for a singles configuration ... the width of the wing causes too much "taco" effect around the cylinder and dumping becomes problematic.

If you want to dive singles, get a singles wing. If you want the option to dive both singles and doubles, get two wings ... one designed for each configuration.

alexxred:

2. The wing - I'm pretty sure that I will only need the 40lbs lift, If I went with Halcyon I'd get the 40lb Evolve wing as the 60lb would be over-kill. If I went with DSS I'm faced with two options either the 50 LCD or their Torus 45lb. The main thing that I wondering about here, especially when compared to the Halcyon setup is that the the DSS has no zipper, and therefore less failure points. The lift is also closer to what I need. But if something happens repair wise, say a pinched bladder, am I'm better off with the Halcyon as this can be accessed easier to be repaired??

Click to expand...

The DSS wing uses a velcro'd enclosure ... so accessing the bladder is very easy.

alexxred:

3. The inflator, I've read that Halcyon has had issues with theirs. Is this something to even be concerned about??

Click to expand...

I don't think it's a concern ... at least, it hasn't been for my Halcyon Eclipse so far, and I put a lot of dives on that wing. AFAIK, the Halcyon inflator requires occasional cleaning and lubing that you wouldn't ordinarily have to do with a plastic inflator ... you have to decide whether the advantages of stainless steel are worth the minimal extra effort.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

dr_shappero:

I can only address part of your question, and only really with some of my personal opinions. So here we go...I do not think that either of the backplates you are looking at are terribly different. For that matter, I don't think that any of the popular backplates (Halcyon, DSS, OMS, Hammerhead, Koplin) are terribly different design wise and would all make fine choices. I would be more worried about the length of the plate (some manufactures offer different lengths) rather than the bend in it.

-Keith

Click to expand...

The DSS backplate has a very flat bend and shallow channel, which makes it an excellent choice for a singles configuration ... it'll put the cylinder closer to your body than a plate with a deeper bend angle.

Conversely, a plate with a very deep bend angle, like a FredT, is a better choice for doubles ... for much the same reason.

It's easier to show than to describe ... so since you're reasonably local, let's hook up for a dive sometime and I'll show you why it matters.

FWIW - most of the backplates you mentioned fall somewhere in between these two in terms of plate bend angle and channel depth.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

alexxred:

1. In regards to the SS BP themselves, I notice that both do not require a STA. DSS points out that due the angle of their BP, it is a better choice if diving singles. Is this the reason that Halcyon also does not require and STA, or is their configuration (angle of the BP) different again??

Click to expand...

Didn't you say that you are diving doubles?

Yes, the DSS plate is flatter... it has less of an angle and the center channel is a little shallower. The idea is that this allows the single cylinder to sit closer to your back making it easier to reach the valve while shrinking your profile. Both Halcyon and DSS plates may be used with STA-less wings... another way to bring the tank closer to the back of the diver. But this is a Single Cylinder deal, of course. You don't use a single tank adapter with doubles.

As far as doubles are concerned, it doesn't appear to me that Tobin's flatter plate brings the valves any closer. I might be wrong on this but I have check with mine and it doesn't seem to shorten the reach at all. I don't believe that it was designed to do this with doubles.

There are other reasons, however, to prefer Tobin's plate.

alexxred:

2. The wing - I'm pretty sure that I will only need the 40lbs lift, If I went with Halcyon I'd get the 40lb Evolve wing as the 60lb would be over-kill. If I went with DSS I'm faced with two options either the 50 LCD or their Torus 45lb. The main thing that I wondering about here, especially when compared to the Halcyon setup is that the the DSS has no zipper, and therefore less failure points. The lift is also closer to what I need. But if something happens repair wise, say a pinched bladder, am I'm better off with the Halcyon as this can be accessed easier to be repaired??

Click to expand...

alexxred:

3. The inflator, I've read that Halcyon has had issues with theirs. Is this something to even be concerned about??

Click to expand...

I'd say get Tobin's Torus wing and his plate. Small profile wing. Trustworthy inflator. I wouldn't worry about the no zipper thing. Perhaps there ia another way to access the inner bladder. I'm sure Tobin will be along to answer your questions.

NWGratefulDiver:

Conversely, a plate with a very deep bend angle, like a FredT, is a better choice for doubles ... for much the same reason.

Click to expand...

I don't know, Bob. I don't believe Fred's plate brings the valves any closer with doubles. Yah, it has a deeper channel but this doesn't affect the proximity of the cylinders. I might be wrong, but I've looked closely at this with all of my plates and it appears that the only difference, with this in mind, is the thickness of each plate. All of the plates pretty much lay flat against the cylinders. If there is a difference, then it is very little.

Personally, I prefer to use my FredT plate with my doubles... but for different reasons.

I'm suprised Tobin hasn't chimed in to clarify, but from what I have read, the Torus bladder is definitely accessible. Like Bob said, I think it's velcro that holds the outer shell closed

Tobin has explained in many posts that one of the things he doesn't like about building donut wings is the need for a 360 degree zipper. So, it is the zipper specifically that he addressed in the Torus design, but I'm pretty sure it's still an outer shell with inner bladder accessible. The lack of zipper makes it easier to more precisely control the shape of the shell and eliminates a potential cranky zipper failure based on what I have read.

Seems like a good idea to me. Good luck with your choice!