Frog Kicks, Backwards Kicks and Hellicopter Turns : Help

[ElectricZombie]

I downloaded the 5th Dimension videos on these techniques, and practiced them in the pool tonight with a class.

My frog kick dosn't look as efficient as the one in the video, worked ok but not great. Not sure if legs should be bent. It looks like the diver is turning his fins on edge to help cut through the water on the return stroke. Please elaborate on this and how it's performed.

The backward kick was difficult, I never got it down. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Looked crazy trying to do it.

My hellicopter turn worked but, I don't know if I'm doing it correctly. I sort of did a one leg frog kick. Need some clarification.

Could someone please write a description of exactly how to do these three techniques? The video was helpful but, I need a good explanation of the mechanics. Between reading, watching and practicing, I should be ok. I would really appreciate it if someone could help me get these down.

Thanks Yet Again,

[wetman]

Can someone post a link to these videos? I looked on their site and couldn't find them.

steve

[Spectre]

http://www.fifthd.com/divestore/classes/classindex.html

Look on the right of the page for the video list.

[nickjb]

I tried to play the vids but I get this error messsage:

'Cannot play back the video stream: no suitable decompressor could be found'

Any ideas what i am missing?

[O-ring]

The backward kick was difficult, I never got it down. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Looked crazy trying to do it.

That backward kick is a bear...I am anxious to try it this weekend in my class and see if they can fix it. I'll pass along any good info I get..

[Spectre]

Originally posted by nickjb
'Cannot play back the video stream: no suitable decompressor could be found'

I would try going to Microsoft's download page and downloading the latest version of Windows Media Player for your OS. I'm not completely sure if that will effect plug-ins as well, but it's worth a shot...

[wetman]

better link:

http://www.fifthd.com/divestore/classes/dirrec.html

this one goes straight to the videos. thanks.


steve

[Spectre]

Originally posted by wetman
better link:

http://www.fifthd.com/divestore/classes/dirrec.html

this one goes straight to the videos. thanks.


Doah... Sorry. I just tried going to the link that I posted, and your right, it doesn't go directly. There's something in my bookmark that gets both frames correct, where going direct to that link doesn't.

Sorry....

[ElectricZombie]

Anyone have any luck trying to do these yet?

[jbd]

is a real bear to do. I've been working on it but have had very limited sucess. I figure if I try it as many times as Tiger Woods has swung a golf club I may get it figured out.

I'm better with the helicopter turn to the left(counterclockwise) than I am to the right.

The backward kick seems to require a lot of finesse in the recovery phase of the kick. Without that finesse you just push yourself back to where you started.

On the helicopter turn it feels like I'm using one fin to pull me around and the other fin picks up where the first left off while the first is recovering.

As for the frog kicks with my back arched and legs bent a strong kick seems to propel me downward. Soft easy kicks seem to work best for me.

I'm new to some of this so I can't really write a detailed description of what I'm doing when I do get it right.

[dlarbale]

All,

I tried the frog kick this weekend. Seemed to get it OK despite just using a normal BCD. I did however have sore knee joints after a few dives doing this.

I'm assuming that it's the frog kick that's causing the problems and not just the effort of walking up loads of steps with all my gear - I do this almost every weekend so shouldn't be the problem.

So has anyone else experienced knee joint pain after doing the frog kick?

Thanks - Dave.

PS// Using Apollo split fins.

[O-ring]

Using Apollo split fins

You will have a hard time doing any kick except a straight flutter with split fins.

With backwards kicks and helicopters...a helicopter involves doing a backward kick with one foot and a frog with the other to spin you around in the chosen direction. If you cannot get the backwards kick, your helicopter will likely be poor as well.

I can't do them, so I practice, practice, practice...oh, and then practice some more...:D

[wetman]

I too wasnt used to the frog kick motion. I have been doing it on the last 30ish odd dives much more and it certainly got better and easier over time. I dont think its a typical or natural motion for your legs so it takes a bit of getting used to.

[roakey]

I had frog kicked a few times before I took Cave I, which was a solid week of frog kicking.

Nowadays no matter where I'm diving the frog kick seems to be my predominant kick. It appears that this happens for ANYONE who is “forced” frog kicking for a significant amount of time -- it becomes their default kick.

Has this happened to anyone else or have you noticed it among others?

Roak

[O-ring]

Has this happened to anyone else or have you noticed it among others?

Yeah, I don't use a flutter much at all. Hard to kick any other way and still maintain proper trim and buoyancy and the modified flutter doesn't get me anywhere compared to a good frog.

[JamesK]

Originally posted by roakey


Has this happened to anyone else or have you noticed it among others?


Yep. However, I use the modified frog kick almost exclusively. I only use the frog kick if I am in a strong flow or current.

[metridium]

The frog has been my primary kick for years, though I've never been "forced" to use it. :)

I echo what o-ring said about the flutter kick.

[MikeFerrara]

Modified frog almost exclusively. Full frog for real power. In a narrow space maybe a shuffle. A relaxed modified frog with good trim will scoot you along at an amazing clip even in doubles and a dry suit.

[WreckWriter]

I never thought much of the frog kick until my trimix class when I was in the position of trying to keep up with the instructor who uses only frog kick. Quite simply, I couldn't keep up. I was flutter kicking my a$$ off, he was just gliding along.

Lots of practice is in order for me as I want to use this kick too.

Tom

[wb416]

First, a comment to Roakey's post: I find Frog or mod-frog my predominant kicks for the last year or so... it's very natural, relaxing, and easy!

Back Kick technique:

Unfortunately, this is the poorest of the video clips that is listed on the FifthD site and after Andrew G stepped us through how to do it properly (in our DIRF class), I mentioned that he might want to get a better video clip.

I'll attempt to describe the stroke in my own words:

1) In a re-chambered frog kick position (knees bent, fins horizontal), put the bottom of your fins together.

2) Keeping your knees in their same starting position (DON'T drop them), pivot your fins backward (bottom of fins still together). You'll be rotating down through an arc.

3) When your legs are almost straight out, rotate your ankles so that your fins are facing out to the side toward perpendicular in respect to your legs (this prepares you to scoop water with the front of the fin).

4) With the top of your fins facing forward, rechamber/bend your knees toward the starting position in step #1. You'll be moving through an arc again. The key is to keep your knees as close to the same position in each of the four steps as possible, otherwise the tendency is to drop your knees and "hump-the-dog".

Now, practice this laying on the floor. Your back should be arched with your head up, and your knees pulled up off the floor (feel the tension in your back). Some people have a tendency to pull themselves backwards-and-up through the water column because they drop their head. That's why it's important to arch your head up. This helps to keep your horizontal movement and trim in check.

Now go practice, practice, practice!

Good Luck,
cwb

[Phaedrus]

Originally posted by O-ring
You will have a hard time doing any kick except a straight flutter with split fins.
I have Apollo Bio-Fins myself. Many "DIR" kicks - especially the backwards kick - can be a bit of a pain. I really haven't had much trouble with them, though; I frog-kick most of the time now, with little trouble, and I can helicopter pretty easily.

<tangent> Take this with a grain of salt, though. My gear is not very DIR at the moment - Zeagle Ranger BC w/ Scubapro AIR2, no long hose, Bio-Fins, and a dry suit that has its exhaust valve on the left forearm - not conducive to horizontal ascents. All my lead's in the weight pockets on the BC, too, although my trim actually isn't half bad. But you'll never take my Scubapro regs! :tongue: </tangent>

[O-ring]

But you'll never take my Scubapro regs!

That's all JJ and the GUE guys dove during my DIRF class. I think George doesn't like them and they aren't allowed in the WKPP, but other GUE divers love them and won't dive anthing else.