Hi,
I have a probelm with my rig and I am not sure how to correct it...
I dive:
SS 6# BP
Halcyon Pioneer wings (45# - yes, Iknow thats overkill, but I have them)
7mm Farmer John wetsuit
5mm hood, gloves, boots
US Divers Rocket fins
Neoprene weightbelt with 16# weights
Halcyon harness
Halcyon STA
PROBELM: Trim.....when I descend I always go to a feet-down position and its very hard to stay horizontal.
I am like 150# at 5ft 8 in tall...just in case thats important to weighing.
What can I do to get/keep me in a MORE horizontal position?
I have seen The Fifth Dimensions DIR video's and I should be able to do horiz descents and ascents.
HELP????
roakey
July 17th, 2002, 05:02 PM
Quck and easy place to start: Get another cam band and strap on 8# to as close to the shoulder of the cylinder as you can and see how your trim is (and drop 8# from your belt of course).
Roak
Scubaroo
July 17th, 2002, 05:35 PM
Or try one of FredT's heavy STAs. They weigh 5 pounds versus the 1.5-2 pounds of the Halcyon adapter.
MikeFerrara
July 17th, 2002, 05:44 PM
Also, make sure your not too heavy. We're about the same size. I use a 36# wing with an al 80 and H-valve. In my two piece 7 mil I have 8 pounds on my belt. For deeper dives (more suit compression) I put a weight around the neck of the tank. Remember as the suit compresses you get more neg, and put more air in the wing. The result is a drastic difference in center of gravity vs center of buoyancy. Minimizing the weight will help. Beyond that you need the weight in the right place (up by the wing). A weight in the bp chanel (P-weight) is the best solution. I need to get busy and make some.
Scuba446
July 17th, 2002, 06:37 PM
P-weights? What the heck is that?
I looked at one of Koplin's weighted STA's, but I didn't feel like dropping $90 for a weighted STA right now, being I have so much $ invested this season already....
How about some of the small weight pouches that affix to the tank cam band straps? My rig has 2 cam bands currently, and ebing the Halcyon with the SS buckles, they cost me like $36 each!
PS During our OW Check Out Dives, I had like 12# on my waist and I could ONLY sink when I exhaled fully - problem was, as soon as I inhaled again, UP I came! Instructor had to pull me down before I went to 16# on my wiast!
O-ring
July 17th, 2002, 09:39 PM
You are diving in salt water, right?
Scuba446
July 17th, 2002, 09:44 PM
No,
right now, just fresh...until January 2003 when we go to the Keys...
O-ring
July 17th, 2002, 09:45 PM
I dive pretty much the same rig except I have a 27# wing. I am 5'10" about 160 and with the SS bp I use 4# on my belt in fresh water.
You have more exposure suit than I do (I dive a 5mm full, 3/5mm hooded vest, 3mm gloves, 6.5mm booties), but I do not use an STA.
It seems to me, granted I am no expert, that you should sink like the Empress of Ireland with that much weight on. I'm with Mike, sounds like your heavy belt is yanking down your tail end. Have you tried dumping your wing, exhaling, and getting down about 10' or so so your suit compresses? You might be able to drop some weight then.
I haven't tried the tank weight he mentions, but it sounds like a good idea if your arse keeps draggin :)
Scuba446
July 17th, 2002, 09:59 PM
I'm going to try to put some weight (4-8#) near the top of my tank and see what happens.
yea, I float like a cork with that full 7mm farmer john bottom and the jacket too!
I hate having to wear 16# on my waist!
seabass
July 17th, 2002, 10:09 PM
I am 5 9, 150. In a 7 mil wetsuit, hood, and semi buoyant BC in salt water I wear 18 pounds on my weight belt. Since you have the backplate I would think you would be able to have less weight and considering its fresh water you should be able to have a lot less. Are you sure you are properly emptying your BC? It may look empty and feel empty but since the wings are so big it still have quite a bit of air in it without you being able to tell. I would think you should only need about 12-15 pounds total weight which would result in about 8 or so on your weight belt.
O-ring
July 17th, 2002, 10:12 PM
...get a ****load of bungie and wrap that wing up tight so it squeezes all the air out of it...then you know it is empty.
Scuba446
July 18th, 2002, 05:46 AM
Honestly,
I have had some problems getting ALL the air out of the wing at times - and have to rach back, on occassion and grab the wing to be sure its fully deflated, or put myself in a head down position and pull the rear dump valve to get remaining air out.
Guess maybe thats why some advocate the OMS Bungeed wings, huh?
O-ring
July 18th, 2002, 08:43 AM
Guess maybe thats why some advocate the OMS Bungeed wings, huh?
Yeah, I think the Local 312 Funeral Home Directors and the Association of Gravediggers are pretty big supporters of bungees on wings...
I do kind of a "dog hump" and yank the dump if I feel myself rising too fast on ascent. Other than that, I don't dump much at depth.
roakey
July 18th, 2002, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Scuba446
P-weights? What the heck is that?
It's a weight that goes between the backplate and the diver, unlike V weight that goes between the cylinders and the wing.
Keep in mind that in order to vent all gas from a U shaped bladder you may have to come slightly head up, drop your right side down and then go back to a head down position to move the air on the right side to the left so it can be vented.
Or you can solve this inconsequential "problem" by adding bungees and then go down the rat hole of having to solve a host of significant, dangerous problems introduced by the bungees.
Roak
Hal Iotis
July 18th, 2002, 04:25 PM
I do the maneuver you describe, but I'm confused about the purpose of the elastic band that holds the inflator hose on the harness. How much hose sticks out from this? If it's attached near the inflator, it's hard to vent. So, does it go partway up the hose, or do you remove the hose from the elastic to vent?
Scuba446
July 18th, 2002, 04:52 PM
Hal,
I can e-mail you some DIR pics of this if you e-mail me your e-mail address....
Yes, the bungee cord around the inflator hose does restrict you from putting the hose totally vertical up and down, but, thats not necessary to vent your air out...usually just UP is enough to do so...the reason for this is so that the inflator hose does NOT get away from you and up behind your shoulder and head so you can't just reach for it and find it right there on your left chest.
The bungee goes through the stainless steel slider that your left chest D-ring goes thru. The D-ring is usually positioned like just below your left clavicale - collar bone area. Not any lower than that, as far as I understand it. Thats where mine is and it works great.
Dryglove
July 18th, 2002, 04:53 PM
Just curious.Did you try moving your tank up higher to change your center of gravity so your not so tail heavy.
Scuba446
July 18th, 2002, 04:54 PM
No, as it is, sometimes I bump the back of my head on the valve/1st stage now - I keep the K-valve about mid neck height...
Hal Iotis
July 18th, 2002, 04:56 PM
I've got links to Northeast DIR, EE, etc., but I was just curious about how much of the corrugated hose is below the bungee (and thus free to be lifted upward).
Appreciate your clarification above.
Scuba446
July 18th, 2002, 04:57 PM
Seems like like 45#'s are 'trapping air' in them and its not venting our too easily.
I bought the 45# as my old BC was 41# and I thought you needed that much lift normally, expecially if adding a PONY, etc, which I had planned on in the beginning.
In some ways, maybe OMS HAS something there with the bungee's to VENT the air OUT more easily?
Kinda makes sense in theory - I suppose, especially if one doesn't cave, wreck dive and isn't concerned with the 'entanglement worries.'
DIVERDREW
December 5th, 2002, 06:05 PM
Scubaroo once bubbled...
Or try one of FredT's heavy STAs. They weigh 5 pounds versus the 1.5-2 pounds of the Halcyon adapter.
Where can one view FredT's products and pricing?
I would be interested in his heavy STA.
Thanks Drew
Spectre
December 5th, 2002, 06:10 PM
DIVERDREW once bubbled...
Where can one view FredT's products and pricing?
I would be interested in his heavy STA.
Pop him a PM (http://www.scubaboard.com/private.php?s=&action=newmessage&userid=2077&subject=Yo%20Fred!%20Hook%20me%20up%20wid%20one%20 o%20dem%20bad%20boy%20heavy%20STAs!)
techdiver12
December 5th, 2002, 06:33 PM
go whit a heavy sta
for all thoes band of death sayer ask yor gue. to see there frist video
chris_b
December 5th, 2002, 09:39 PM
DIVERDREW once bubbled...
Where can one view FredT's products and pricing?
I would be interested in his heavy STA.
AUL sells a lot of his SS stuff, they have pictures at http://www.aulinc.com/Htm_Files/SS%20Backplates.htm
I think Fred sells directly to people for less than AUL, though.
