Why Stainless Bolt Clips In DIR?

[ElectricZombie]

The DIR book says to use stainless steel bolt clips for everything. Why stainless steel and not brass? I havn't been able to find an explanation for this. Anyone know why?

[roakey]

They continue to operate smoothly over time (the patina that forms on brass tends to make them "sticky") and for whatever reason when your hands get soft with long exposure to water, brass has a tendency to cut your thumbs unlike SS.

Roak

[Scubaroo]

For the main body, being brass is probably not a problem, the spring is the main concern. Are the springs in brass bolt snaps salt water resistant?

I've heard brass has some oxidisation problems in salt water, but don't know that for a fact.

[SPEEDSTER]

Well that's easy,

'cause stainless looks cooler than brass. :D

Doesn't everyone know that?;)

Mike

[FredT]

Originally posted by bengiddins
For the main body, being brass is probably not a problem, the spring is the main concern. Are the springs in brass bolt snaps salt water resistant?

I've heard brass has some oxidisation problems in salt water, but don't know that for a fact.

Brass hardware often has carbon steel springs. Stainless hardware usually has SST springs. Nothing is 100% unless specified, but that rule of thumb seems to hold pretty well in the US.

I use brass snap swivels on my spear fishing riding rig. They work fine, but it does require a dip in hot vinegar and penetrating oil whenever re-rigging a new cable or shaft to keep things working smoothly. BTW once the spring is corroded to failure, it's time to replace the entire thing. IMNSHO The disassembly effort necessary to replace just the spring in a snap swivel or bolt snap isn't worth the effort.


FT

[ElectricZombie]

Thanks Fred, that makes sense. I'll be getting in touch with you early August about purchasing a BP and Harness.

[Lost Yooper]

I've used brass forever and haven't had a problem, but then again I only dive in fresh water too.

Mike

[JamesK]

I used to use brass until I had one lock up on me. Then I dumped them all and got SS. I get them very cheap through a local machine shop/ hardware supply store. After about 40 dives, with 10 or so of those in salt water, they still operate as smooth as the day I bought them.

[DNAXdiver]

I think the SS thing really got started with stage tanks, which are pretty heavy, and mainly because the SS clips are a lot stronger. Also, there was some talk long ago when this first came up, that the SS clips tended to cut fingers, because they were so much harder that they weren't usually finished as well and required a little cleaning up before using.

I tend to use brass for most purposes where strength is not an issue for backup lights and reels, and SS for big stuff like stages or scooters where it is.

McMaster Carr has SS ones at a decent price. I get my brass ones from the hardware store and some are 6 years old, used about equally salt and fresh so I am not going to worry too much about brass.

[Mas]

I believe brass has been used in a number of marine applications for centuries, and still is, due to its excellent resistance to saltwater corrosion.

I've been using brass swivel clips and double-enders for only dozens of dives in seawater and have had no problems. Like all my equipment, I rinse the clips thoroughly in freshwater at the end of every dive day, paying special attention to the springs to make sure I've cleaned out any grit that may have accumulated in that area. They still work as well as the day I got them.

[Rick Murchison]

I have used both brass and stainless snaps (all with stainless springs - you can get brass with stainless springs if you look for 'em) around salt water all my life (that's a long, long time, my youngest tells me), both diving and in general use on boats, and I have found the following to be true:
A snap (any kind) that is regularly cleaned and maintained (FredT mentioned a hot vinegar dip followed by penetrating oil - an excellent combination) will work well for years; one that is not will gather crud in the spring and slide (or hinge) and lock up.
I find zero correlation in the lockup rate based on the material from which the snap is made, but 100% correlation between neglect and lockups.
Rick

[WYDT]

Brass will cut your thumbs, SS won't.

My wife this weekend had a brass clip on her SPG and her thumb was cut up so bad it was bleeding. Very painfull. Pop on a SS boltsnap and that problem is gone.

Also, I have noticed a difference in corrosion resistance and I'd suspect that brass clips with the ss springs would be pretty hard to find and probably close to the same cost as the SS. Who the heck is going to soak thier snaps in vinegar and penetrating oil after every dive??? Rinsing with fresh water is all you have to do with SS.

What's $100 for 10 snaps (if you even need that many) when you're spending thousands on gear??

BTW: Rick, did you guys finish this weekend?? If so Congrat's!!

Rob

[DocRCH]

Does anyone have a good source for SS hardware?

Robert

:doctor:

[Scubaroo]

dhnix (http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=dhnix&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25) on eBay has good quality SS bolt snaps cheap - 3/4" stainless ones are about $2.70 each shipped if you buy in lots of 15. They also have other sizes, as well as brass ones.

[wetman]

glad you like em - i just bought a bundle so was curious as to what they were like

[Rick Murchison]

Originally posted by WYDT
Brass will cut your thumbs, SS won't.
Hmmm... never had that problem... I wonder if I may be using a different brand or something. Looking at my clips the actuating knobs appear to have pretty much the same shape to 'em as the stainless..
Curious that.
Rick

[WYDT]

Originally posted by Rick Murchison

Hmmm... never had that problem... I wonder if I may be using a different brand or something. Looking at my clips the actuating knobs appear to have pretty much the same shape to 'em as the stainless..
Curious that.
Rick

Hey Rick,

It's not the knob that cuts your thumb..... brass is much softer than SS (as I'm sure you know) and the action of the knob and slide sliding back and forth serves to actually sharpen the channel where the knob & slide move. When the knob and attached bolt is pushed down as when you're opening the clip your thumb slides down onto this channel thus allowing the cut. By contrast the SS is hard enough to resist this sharpening effect of the bolt and knob sliding back every time the snap is opened.

In this case I believe it's not DIR vs X I'd use SS snaps anyway just so my thumbs wouldn't get cut up. ;)

Wonder if those SS clips they are selling on E-bay are 100%?? If so those are nearly as cheap as the brass. Too bad I paid ~$24 for three this weekend at EE. DOHH!

DSAO!!

[wetman]

I'll let you know - i just ordered some saturday.

steve

[WYDT]

Originally posted by wetman
I'll let you know - i just ordered some saturday.

steve

Thanks! I'd appreciate that!

DSAO!

[Scubaroo]

Originally posted by WYDT
Wonder if those SS clips they are selling on E-bay are 100%??Yes, they are - I have a bunch of them that have been in salt water numerous times. They are "MAST" brand.

[tchil01]

He also has a web page where he sells direct at the same price as on ebay. It's http://www.nixdogcollars.com I just ordered some today.

Ty

[WYDT]

Sweet!! Thanks guys!!

DSAO!!

[Scuba446]

Yup,
Go to Extreme Exposure:


www.extreme-exposure.com


Thats where I get most all of my DIR gear...