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IwakuniDiver
January 10th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Hey everyone,
I finally got that darn confirmation email so now I can intruduce myself.

My name is Scott, I am an IT Support Manager in Iwakunui, Japan. I have been around the water and boating my entire life (originally from Seattle, WA) and I finally got off my duff and got my NAUI OWD certification last summer.

Since then I have been diving constantly with my wife and friends and before the summer was over I had my Advanced, and Rescue Certifications. By mid next summer, I'm hoping to have my Master Diver Cert.

I just got back from a trip to Kailua-Kona, Hawaii, where I went on a couple night dives for Manta Rays but unfortunately, the water was too rough to go the main area so we didn't see any rays. But, we were still able to get in some incredible dives.

I look forward to talking with all of you further and if any of you are interested or have questions about diving Japanese waters, let me know.

Scott

Fish_Whisperer
January 10th, 2006, 07:29 PM
Irashaimase!! :)

Kim
January 10th, 2006, 07:52 PM
Hi Scott. Welcome to the board. Iwakunui...hmmmmmmm...I'd have to get a map out to see where that is! Wait up - another teacher just told me it's in Yamaguchi Prefecture - is that right? If it is you aren't that far from where I live in Fukuoka Prefecture. We go diving sometimes in Omi-shima in the north of Yamaguchi. There is a Japanese club area on SB - check the Zen Divers link in my signature. I'd be curious to hear where you go diving as new sites are always worth a visit!

Sasquatch
January 10th, 2006, 08:22 PM
A warm welcome, Scott, from the chilly, orca infested waters of Puget Sound! I spent a tour in Iwakuni with the Marines and have a deep appreciation for the area and the culture. I tried to leave it pretty much as I found it...

Sea ya!

jagfish
January 10th, 2006, 08:33 PM
Hey Scott
Yeah, I'm with Kim, never heard of Iwakuni.
Welcome to the board.

If you ever want to check out some of the many dive sites down here in the Izu peninsula, let us know. In fact, I'm off work until the second week in April, so if you are a drysuit diver, I can show you around.

Dive on...

IwakuniDiver
January 10th, 2006, 09:01 PM
Iwakuni is about 45km South of Hiroshima on the coast. It's a fairly small town with not much here but a Marine Corps Air Station, where I work as a civilian. I'm former Navy and my first duty station was Sasebo on board the USS Belleau Wood back in '93 so I'm pretty familiar with Fukuoka.

Around here we pretty much dive around Oshima Island and whenever we can, we go to Susa, on the Sea of Japan side where the water is much clearer.

I'll have to round up some of my dive buddies here and we'll definitely get together this year. I'm been anxious to dive Kyushu.

Kim
January 10th, 2006, 09:16 PM
I'm been anxious to dive Kyushu.
It's a pity you weren't diving when you were in Sasebo! There are some good sites there - I went down there with Jagfish a couple of weeks ago. Another place that I found last summer but is a bit of a trek to get to is Amakusa (an island just south of Kumamoto). I've only been there once so far but the diving was the best I've seen in mainland Japan - comparable to Okinawa. There are a couple of SB members who live in Kumamoto and we met up to go there. There's not really much in Fukuoka though - just a couple of spots that are used for training but otherwise not so interesting. They are very shallow too. Check out some of the threads in the Zen divers forum. There is some dive site info in the Local Knowledge thread - plus stuff about Amakusa etc in another one.
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=63320
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=118720

I also did a story on Jagfish and my Sasebo trip, although that is more about my first drysuit experience than the site itself.
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=123389

jagfish
January 10th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Hey Scott and Kim
We'll have to do a trip to Oshima sometime. I dive there a bit as well. We take a ferry from Atami, Yokohama or Tokyo. It can be as little as one hour with that hydrofoil boat...

Kim
January 10th, 2006, 09:28 PM
Hey Scott and Kim
We'll have to do a trip to Oshima sometime. I dive there a bit as well. We take a ferry from Atami, Yokohama or Tokyo. It can be as little as one hour with that hydrofoil boat...
That's a different place to where I mentioned. Omi-shima is a penisular island on the north coast of Yamaguchi. Maybe Scott is talking about the same place as you though - I've never been there though, it's probably a long way away from me.

IwakuniDiver
January 10th, 2006, 09:49 PM
Kim,
You're much closer to me than Jag is. Also, the diving at the Oshima Island near me really isn't worth the trip from where you and Jag will be coming from.

There are a bunch of great placea in Susa that my buddies and I go to. They have boat dives there for about 7500Y per person and there are some cliffs that we go to there as well. Course, the local fisherman got a little mad at us last time we were there and are telling the local government that we're scaring all the fish away and are trying to get us banned from the cliffs.

Jagfish,
I don't think that we're talking about the same Oshima. It takes the Shinkansen over 3hrs to get to Hiroshima from Yokohama and Oshima Island is south of Iwakuni.

I'll see if I can dig up an online map of my local area to show you all.

jagfish
January 10th, 2006, 09:55 PM
You're right. The Oshima I'm talking about is here...

Kim
January 10th, 2006, 10:09 PM
You're right. The Oshima I'm talking about is here...
Considering that 'shima' basically means 'island' there are probably loads of different ones all over Japan! :D

jagfish
January 10th, 2006, 10:32 PM
Probably...

Hoosier
January 10th, 2006, 10:52 PM
Around here we pretty much dive around Oshima Island and whenever we can, we go to Susa, on the Sea of Japan side where the water is much clearer..

Are you talking about East Sea, aren't you? I have never heard "Sea of Japan." Does it existed?;)

IwakuniDiver
January 11th, 2006, 12:53 AM
The Sea of Japan refers to the body of water that is between Japan and Korea. Although it is internationally recognized as the Sea of Japan, South Korea has disputed this name for many years.

Seems that Korea has called it The East Sea or "Dong Hae" and since since Japan and Korea never agree on anything, that pretty much sums it up.

I call it the Sea of Japan becuase that's what it's called here in Japan and it's what I was taught to call it in Geography Class.

Same body of water though.

DandyDon
January 11th, 2006, 01:28 AM
Glad you've joined us...

Sorry if you had a challenge getting registered. :blush:

:cowboy: don

Hoosier
January 11th, 2006, 02:07 AM
I call it the Sea of Japan becuase that's what it's called here in Japan and it's what I was taught to call it in Geography Class..


Just out of curiosity, where did you take your Geography class?

jagfish
January 11th, 2006, 02:27 AM
Are you talking about East Sea, aren't you? I have never heard "Sea of Japan." Does it existed?;)


Just out of curiosity, where did you take your Geography class?
Easy there, Tex...

I'll confirm that's what it's called here, The Sea of Japan or The Japan Sea. I've never heard it talked about before I got here, so maybe English speakers in other countries refer to it as something different. This name we are using might be a direct translation of how it is referred to in Japanese.

Kim
January 11th, 2006, 02:33 AM
It's also how the BBC refers to it on the world news - I thought CNN did as well. It's amusing really, I've never heard the Koreans try to refer to the water on their west coast as the West Sea...I wonder why? :D

It's a common theme around the world though. We (the English) refer to the water between the UK and the Continent as the 'English Channel' - the French of course hate that and just call it the 'Channel' or 'La Manche'!

murphdivers286
January 11th, 2006, 01:43 PM
Welcome to the board.

Hoosier
January 11th, 2006, 01:58 PM
It's also how the BBC refers to it on the world news - I thought CNN did as well. It's amusing really, I've never heard the Koreans try to refer to the water on their west coast as the West Sea...I wonder why? :D !


If you don't change your last name over time, you know why it has to be called as "East Sea," not Sea of Japan. (please read the article below).

Actually, Koreans call the west coast as the West Sea (Yellow Sea) and the south coast as the South Sea if you have been in Korea...

Distortion of the truth is unforgivable under any circumstances, even in the colonial period.

===============================================

The Historical precedent for the "East Sea"

In most world maps and atlases used internationally today, Korea's "East Sea" is indicated as the "Sea of Japan," and therefore an immediate correction is warranted. To this end, it is necessary to review the historical background of the term "East Sea" and how Korea's East Sea has been recognized by neighboring countries and other western countries in the past. Also, to prepare a strategy to change the name "Sea of Japan" back to "East Sea'" it is necessary to review the process of how the "East Sea" was unjustifiably turned into the "Sea of Japan" in the 20th century.


Name of "East Sea" in Korean Writings and Ancient Maps
Historically, Korea has used the term, "East Sea" in writings since 59 B.C. Examples can be found in numerous records including the Monument of King Kwanggaeto (411), the Samguk sagi (History of the Three Kingdoms, 1145) and the Samguk yusa (Memorabilia of the Three Kingdoms, 1284). Moreover, the still extant "Atlas of Eight Provinces" in the Shinjong tongguk yoji sungnam (A revised edition of the Augmented Survey of the Geography of Korea, 1530) uses the term "East Sea." In addition, a 16th century Tongguk chido (Map of Korea) uses the term "Tong cho taehae" (Great Sea of the Lower East). A map of Yongnam (the southeastern region of the peninsula) which was made in the 1740's and a map of Korea which was officially created in the mid-18th century also used the name, "East Sea." Hence there is much evidence that "East Sea" has been used for centuries.
Reference to the "East Sea" was also constant in numerous maps created after the 18th century. Many geography textbooks published and used before the annexation of Korea by Japan in the early 20th century made reference to the "East Sea," "Sea of Choson" or "Sea of Korea." However, already by the early 20th century, there were some textbooks which made reference to the "Sea of Japan." Every textbook published after 1910 refers to the East Sea as the "Sea of Japan."
China, Russia, and Japan's Use of "East Sea"
According to Chinese sources, China has known of the "East Sea" since the Tang Dynasty; however, they called it just "Sea" or "Great Sea." With the establishment in 698 of the Kingdom of Parhae by Koreans, the Chinese began calling the East Sea the "Sea of Parhae." China used the term, "East Sea," during the Liao Dynasty (947-1125), the Sung Dynasty (960-1279), the Chin Dynasty (1122- 1234), the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368), the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), and the Qing (Ch'ing) Dynasty (1644-1912). At times during the Yuan and Ming Dynasties, the Chinese referred to the East Sea as "Ching Hai" which means "Sea of Whales" because there were a lot of whales found there. During the Ming and Qing Dynasties, the Chinese referred to the northeastern area of the East Sea as "East Sea" and the southern area as the "South Sea." Around 1884 during the Qing Dynasty, some scholars and bureaucrats occasionally used the term "Sea of Japan" in some documents. However, the Russia-Japan Treaty of 1905 was the first documented use of the term "Sea of Japan" at a government level.
The "Kunyuwanguoditu" is a map printed in Beijing in 1602. It was a translation into Chinese of a world map kept by a Jesuit priest, Matteo Ricci and it refers to the East Sea as the "Sea of Japan." It is the oldest surviving Chinese map known to use the term "Sea of Japan." However, this map does not have much significance because it was a translation of a map made by a foreigner living in China. In addition, it is believed that the production of the map was influenced by information obtained from Japan rather than from Korea. This map did not have much impact on subsequent Chinese maps. The next time the term "Sea of Japan" appeared on a Chinese map was about 1875.
Russian maps of East Asia were all created after 1639 when Russians first arrived in the Pacific coast region. In 1687, Nic Witzen's "Noord en Oost Tartarye" refers to the East Sea as "Oceanus Orientalis." N. Goman's 1725 map uses the term "Eastern Ocean," and in a 1734 map, I. Kirilov refers to the East Sea as "Vostochnoe," meaning "east sea." The Map of Asia printed by the renown Petersbourg Academy of Sciences in 1745 also refers to the East Sea as "Koreiskoe Mope," or "Sea of Korea." Other famous maps printed in Russia from 1745 to 1791 use the term "Sea of Korea." Adam Johann von Krusenstern (1770-1846), the Russian who explored the East Sea called it the "Sea of Japan" as did the French explorer, La Perouse (1741-c. 1788), who explored the East Sea in 1787. However, the Russians called the East Sea the "Sea of Korea" in their last officially published map of 1844. Thereafter, it appears that the Russian Navy and numerous maps followed the European style in making geographical references.
The term "Sea of Japan" was used after the 18th century in many prestigious maps made in Japan. Until 1870, even Japanese maps referred to East Sea as the "Sea of Choson." All of the following maps refer to the East Sea as the "Sea of Choson:" Takahasi Kageyasu's 1810 "Sinteibankokuzenzu," Abe Kinin's 1838 "Bankokuzenzu," Sugita Gendan's 1850 "Chigakuseisozu," Matsuda Rokuzan's 1855 "Chikyubankokuzenzu," and the 1870 "Meizikaiteibankokuyochibunzu."
However, all maps published in Japan thereafter refer to the East Sea as the "Sea of Japan." From this, it can be inferred that the Japanese government directed, as a matter of policy, that the name "Sea of Japan" be used. Especially, geographical references and names were changed in Matsuda Rokuzan's 1854 map and his "Bankokuzenzu" of 1871. Hasimoto Chyozuki's 1871 "Sinseiyochizenzu" calls the East Sea the "Sea of Japan." From this, we can assume that changes were being made at about this time, because the term "East Sea" was not found in any of the Japanese maps published after 1871. Also, at about this time, references to the "Sea of Japan" began appearing in Chinese maps as well.

Kim
January 11th, 2006, 07:51 PM
For arguments like this there are always two sides:
http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/maritime/japan/sea.html

or for an analysis of the argument itself:
http://www.answers.com/topic/dispute-over-the-name-of-the-sea-of-japan

As you can see from the second document:


The United Nations Conferences on Standardization of Geographical Names (UNCSGN) and the International Hydrographic Organization (IHO) have so far neither accepted nor denied Korea's claims, but left the issue open to discussion while continuing to use "Sea of Japan".

right now "Sea of Japan" is what is currently used by the United Nations.

Hoosier
January 12th, 2006, 01:07 AM
For arguments like this there are always two sides:
http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/maritime/japan/sea.html (http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/maritime/japan/sea.html)

or for an analysis of the argument itself:
http://www.answers.com/topic/dispute-over-the-name-of-the-sea-of-japan (http://www.answers.com/topic/dispute-over-the-name-of-the-sea-of-japan)

As you can see from the second document:

right now "Sea of Japan" is what is currently used by the United Nations.


Japan’s argument is only talking about 200 years. If you are teaching English in Japan, you know what “Proper noun” means. Your name is “Proper noun” that should be correctly called, not “Ka-im” instead of “Kim.” In the same context, you should call “Godiva” as “Go-Dai-Va”, not “Go-DI-Va” because it is a “Proper Noun.”

The name, “East Sea” has been called more than 200 years. Yes, Japan colonized Korea more than 30 years and has influenced many areas including an international affairs based on their successful economic growth, but there is something they aren’t free to change they like. It is “Proper Noun.” That is, we can’t call “Iraq” as “Ai-raq” even though US makes an invasion on Iraq.

Kim
January 12th, 2006, 01:20 AM
Well for me anyone can call it what they like - I have no axe to grind! :D

Just as long as we know which body of water we're talking about.

As far as my name goes - it's impossible to spell it correctly in Japanese script. In fact they call me キム - Kimu (ki-mu) as it's the closest they can get! :D There is no symbol for 'm' on it's own.

Hoosier
January 12th, 2006, 01:46 AM
Well for me anyone can call it what they like - I have no axe to grind! :D

Just as long as we know which body of water we're talking about.

As far as my name goes - it's impossible to spell it correctly in Japanese script. In fact they call me キム - Kimu (ki-mu) as it's the closest they can get! :D There is no symbol for 'm' on it's own.

Actually, it isn't "m" symbol matter. Japanese script doesn't have any "consonant placed under a vowel." So, like you said, they call "Kimchi" as "Ki~Mu Chi." :D


As for the name of "East Sea," it is just part of conflict. There have been so many other matters Korean and Chinese never forget....

jagfish
January 12th, 2006, 03:28 AM
Actually, it isn't "m" symbol matter. Japanese script doesn't have any "consonant placed under a vowel." So, like you said, they call "Kimchi" as "Ki~Mu Chi." :D
Yeah, it's referred to as open and closed syllables. In Japanese, there is only one sound I know of that is posible to be "closed", and that's the "n" sound.

There is "na, ni, nu, ne, no," like the other syllables, but there is also the solitary "n" sound, as in daikon, that huge mutant radish.

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