Ca't access my shears...????

[Scuba446]

I have a problem that I am not sure how to solve...

I dive a BP and harness, with weightbelt as well. I have a set of shears that I had on my harness waistbelt, but I can't GET to them with my weightbelt ON!

It slips over the 2" waistbelt perfectly - but I'd never be able to get it in a pinch. Any suggestions on WHERE I could put it?

[Friggincold]

Put your weight belt on under your BP harness keep your shears over your weight belt and practice getting them out and putting them away. Practice removing your weight belt too...
Friggincold

[Scuba446]

Thanks,
I have been told that - but what about an Emergency Ascent?

I'd never get that weightbelt off in a hurry.

??

[Friggincold]

I'm not sure who taught you to do an emergency swimming ascent but I was never taught to drop the weight belt. If your weighted correctly you should be able to swim to the surface fairly easily. It's amazing what you can do if you practice.
Friggincold

[Tibbs]

You should never need to do one!

If you have a drysuit on, use the drysuit's buoyancy if your wing fails. If you use a wetsuit you should be able to swim your rig up to the surface. If you can't, buy a drysuit!

If you have a catastrophic failure which renders you without gas, your buddy should be able to lift you and then make you buoyant at the surface.

Weights should only be dumped at the surface. The whole dumping weights at depth was introduced before people wore buoyancy compensators and had to swim back to the surface. Even then it was an absolute last resort...

Chris

[WreckWriter]

I keep my shears in my left thigh pocket. I agree with the others though, the belt goes under the harness. If you need to ditch the belt to swim up you're probably overweighted.

Tom

[Scuba446]

Ok, thanks!

[Spectre]

Tibbs once bubbled...
Weights should only be dumped at the surface. The whole dumping weights at depth was introduced before people wore buoyancy compensators and had to swim back to the surface. Even then it was an absolute last resort...


That and back when diving was mostly a warm water sport. During dive briefings I give instructions on how to go about getting my weight belt off [double buckle as well as a thigh pocket threaded through]. The introduction to that lecture is always "If you feel you need to sentence me to death"....

I have no doubts that dropping a 20# belt at depth will result in my death.

Once I finish with my BP/Wings setup, I hope to distribute enough to have a 6-8 lb belt, which could be ditched if truely necessary...

[Tibbs]

I remember the incident that led me to take off my little 'emergency' bottle that I had attached to my AP Valves 'Buddy' jacket.

There is a very well known inland dive site in the UK called Stoney Cove which is a flooded quarry. In the deepest part at 34m is an old building, that we called the Hydrobox. You can get inside it from the top, and it's a good place to do skills, as it's away from the silt outside. One lady diver had her back against the wall of the box and turned to her buddy, accidently opening her emergency bottle by rubbing it on the wall of the box. This fully inflated her jacket and plastered her to the roof of the box, very close to the entrance. If she hadn't been stopped by the roof, the results could have been very ugly indeed.

I tested my bottle and the force of coming up from 3m took me out of the water past my waist! Needless to say it was confined to the bin VERY quickly after that...

I actually heard of one guy opening his at a depth of 54m, presumably coming to the surface with his lungs hanging out of his nostrils...

And with that pleasant mental picture I will leave you!

Chris

[Scuba446]

Geez,
Sold! Enough said - weightbelt will go UNDER the harness from now on!

[rcohn]

Spectre once bubbled...


That and back when diving was mostly a warm water sport. During dive briefings I give instructions on how to go about getting my weight belt off [double buckle as well as a thigh pocket threaded through]. The introduction to that lecture is always "If you feel you need to sentence me to death"....

I have no doubts that dropping a 20# belt at depth will result in my death.

And why should that kill you??? British submariners have demonstrated that ascent rates over 500 ft per minute can be done without embolism. It sounds like your skills need work.

Ralph

[tchil01]

Not only do I have my weight belt under my TP II, but my crotch strap goes over the belt. That's what saved me last weekend when the weight belt buckle snagged on some old fishing line and popped open. Now I'm sporting two buckels on my weight belt.

Ty

[Cave Diver]

rcohn once bubbled...


And why should that kill you??? British submariners have demonstrated that ascent rates over 500 ft per minute can be done without embolism. It sounds like your skills need work.

Ralph

Please state the source of your information so others can read about this firsthand.

[rcohn]

I'll need to look for the original reference, but here is some stuff from a quick search.

http://www.diodon349.com/Stories/General/forget_blow_and_go_and_good_bye_steike_hoods.htm

"Don't hold your breath - breath normally, relax, and enjoy the ride - it's going to be the best one you ever had," Sandoval said. Since the suits are inflated, sailors bob to the surface at a rate of about 725 feet per minute.

"It feels unnatural for a diver," said Hull Technician Second-Class Travis Swink, one of the instructors who tried out the suits in a 100-foot dive tower in Great Britain. "Our whole career we're taught to follow a certain feet-per-minute ascent rate, and with this thing you're just screaming to the surface."

http://www.bevs.org/diving/sett.htm

The serious purpose behind the SETT is to train and recertify our fleet of Submariners in their escape training. They perform three escapes, one from 10m, one from 18m and a final one from 30 meters. This ascent usually takes about 7 seconds !! Divers please note that this is not an acceptable ascent rate !!!

30 m in 7 seconds is 281 ft/ minute

http://www.divernet.com/technol/escap298.htm

http://www.mindspring.com/~divegeek/biblios/ascent.htm

That will do for now. I'm not suggesting it's easy to do these rates, it requires special training that only submariners have. However, with the drag of scuba gear our rates are slower. If you believe you are going to die, you probably will panic and die as a result. Relax, breath normally or exhale continuously, flare to slow the ascent and you should be ok.

Ralph

[rcohn]

A bit more.

No rate given here but i think most of us will realize that is is rather high when sealed in a inflated suit, much higher than when a weight belt is lost.
http://www.dnd.ca/menu/maple/vol_3/Vol3_32/navy_e.htm

The reliance on rescue depends on the ability of the crew to control the situation in the submarine, stabilize the environment in the escape compartment and await rescue. In the event that the crew cannot wait to be rescued-air is running out, for example-they will don their SEIEs and exit the submarine, one at a time, through the escape tower.
The SEIE provides buoyancy and breathing air during the escape sequence, and thermal protection on the surface. If the crew must leave the submarine immediately due to a sudden and uncontrollable situation, such as flooding, they will conduct RUSH escape by equalizing the compartment with the sea and then exit the submarine in rapid succession through the escape tower. Escape is possible down to a depth of 180 m.

In a non-RUSH escape sequence, the escaper dons an inner thermal suit over his normal clothing, then gets into the SEIE and pulls up a large waterproof zip that encloses him from head to toe. Upon entering the escape tower, he plugs the hose on the sleeve of his suit into a dry clean air supply from the Hood Inflation System, which provides air for breathing as well as to fill the integral stole, or life preserver, in the suit. The tower is then flooded up from sea, and as soon as the tower pressure equalizes with sea pressure, the upper lid automatically opens. With the hood of the suit filled with air, the escaper is positively buoyant, and automatically rises to the surface. The escaper continues to breathe normally all the way to the surface, with the excess air pressure within the suit automatically bleeding off through vents.

If the hood is not inflated, or not fitted during RUSH escape, the escaper must exhale continuously as he ascends to get rid of the expanding air in his lungs. Once on the surface, the vents are shut, trapping the air in the suit and enabling the escaper to float

US Navy escape proceedures:
http://www.uboat.cz/down/zajm/salvage.pdf

WARNING
Failure to forcibly exhale during the entire ascent to the surface may cause an air embolism, resulting in
death.
15. Upon exiting the trunk, the escapees extend their hands above their heads and clasp their thumbs together
to help guide themselves to the surface and to avoid debris and other survivors. During the ascent, the escapees
should forcibly exhale to ensure that pressure does not build up in their lungs. The escapees can shout
”HO–HO–HO” as a way to continually exhale during the ascent.

http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~lucyht/Lsac/clubmag/marapr02/letters.htm

The main piece of 'personal' equipment used during 'in water' escapes would be a Mk 10 escape suit. This is similar to a membrane drysuit with boots and cuff seals, but it has a built in buoyancy jacket and a plastic hood - and an inflatable personal liferaft strapped to your waist.

The more controlled of the 'in water' escape methods involves you donning the suit (including putting the hood on - a bit like putting a plastic bag over your head - which your Mum told you never to do!). Climbing into the escape tower where you connect a pipe from your buoyancy jacket to an air supply and you then breath the air escaping from the jacket. They would then pressurise the tower to equalise the pressure with the outside water, the escape hatch would open automatically and 70 lbs. of buoyancy would blast you to the surface. The pipe connecting you to the air supply would be pulled out as you left the chamber but air escaping from the jacket as it expanded would go into the hood and you would breath that (mainly of course breathing out as the pressure quickly reduces - don't want to escape from a submarine and die of a burst lung!). Time for ascent? Approx. 8 seconds from 30m! This method of escape is reliable and has even been tested down to depths of 180m! - But it is slow, only 1 person every 4 minutes.

The last method of escape is called the 'rush' escape. This would be used if the submarine was badly damaged and pressure was building up, or the atmosphere was getting uncontrollably foul and you had to get people out quickly. In this case the escape chamber (the room below the escape tower in which you had all congregated) would be flooded and pressure equalised with the water outside. You would be breathing off a regulator similar to a diving one (but without a purge button) the exhaust of which you use to inflate your buoyancy jacket. You move through the chamber swapping regulators as you go until you get close to the escape tower. The tower would be extended downwards by a canvas tube, and you would have to duck down (against the 70 lbs. of buoyancy) and then you should float up through the tower and out. This method can get a man out every 4 seconds - but for the guy at the far end of the queue? Nitrogen Narcosis, more chance of getting the Bends and if you were deep enough Oxygen Toxicity….

Ralph

[raxafarian]

I think exiting a sub after breathing air at atmospheric pressure (or pressurized air for a very short time...ie. as the escape chamber is pressurized) is quite a bit different than having been breathing compressed air while diving. Plus... they have a choice... try and get out and make it to the surface by the only means possible... or die. If their situation is stablized, they are going to wait for a rescue as long as possible... with locking out a last resort.

The only reason I can think of to drop a weight belt at depth is dealing with an unconscious diver, etc and I'm gonna miss a deco stop to get them to the surface ... then I'm thinking that's their best chance, and up they go... I'm not trained in such diving... just my best guess.

If you can't swim up for any reason, and I don't know of any reasons why you wouldn't be able to... why drop it all... take a weight pouch out... or take the belt off and take one weight off...

If you're at the surface... lost the boat... drifting out to sea.... and so on... sure, dump the belt... weights are cheap.

[raxafarian]

the navy doesn't to the actual ascent training anymore... they might talk about it in the classroom, but no more actual ascent training... and not for many years now.

[Scuba446]

Well,
I got it all worked out and now wear my weightbelt under my harness. It doesn't interfere with the harness at all.

[rcohn]

1. No one is recommending dumping the weight belt, the question is will you almost certainly die if it happens.

2. Whether it’s 1 second or many hours at depth, the risk of embolism is the same, which I assume (hope) is why Jeff thinks he will die.

3. Whether the US Navy still does the training is irrelevant, a rapid ascent is still possible. I believe the US Navy still carries escape gear and the British still do the training. Even it everyone immediately ceased all rapid escapes, thousands of training dives and a few actual escapes were done in the past.

It comes down to proper training and education, a subject on which many people on this board love to pontificate. Very rapid ascents are possible if you breathe normally or exhale continuously and relax. If you believe that you are going to die you will be in a panic, where the natural reaction is to hold your breath. If you panic and hold your breath, you will embolize and may die.


Ralph

[Scuba446]

Well I can't figure out WHY then these agencies are still teaching that skill - Emergency Dumping.

?

[Divesherpa]

The reason Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascents are still taught is because most body recoveries are done on people who didn't remove weights, which would have kept them alive (recreational).

[Scuba446]

"If you have a catastrophic failure which renders you without gas, your buddy should be able to lift you and then make you buoyant at the surface."

I'm not talking about gear failures, I'm talking about a super-serious scenario - such as accidently swallowing water or inhaling such..

[Scuba446]

rcohn,
Read that article, but that was with special suits, not normal 'recreational' scuba gear - meaning wetsuits...

Which leads me to my next question - if one DOES continue to breathe during ascent normally, would you still get an embolism?

Probably most likely, huh, if one missed their Safety Stop or Deco Stops?

I would think CERTAINLY if one misses their deco stops, your gonna bet bent and/or wind up with an embloism.

[Rick Murchison]

Scuba446 once bubbled...
Which leads me to my next question - if one DOES continue to breathe during ascent normally, would you still get an embolism?
Probably most likely, huh, if one missed their Safety Stop or Deco Stops?
NO!
Embolism is an overexpansion injury, the result of trapped air in the lungs (holding your breath) expanding beyond the capacity of the lungs during ascent. As long as you maintain an open airway (breathe continuously) you can handle any ascent rate you can achieve on scuba (drop your weights and inflate your BC and swim for the surface as hard as you can) without danger of embolism.
---------------------
Arguments for making the weightbelt hard to jettison for recreational divers are overblown, and statistics of diver deaths support a conclusion that we as an industry are remiss in not adequately teaching how to do it quickly, easily and in a timely fashion. And not only do you need to be able to jettison enough weight to achieve positive buoyancy quickly and easily, you need to have that jettisonable weight arranged in one of the several standardized fashions that a rescuer can do so with automatic ease. The key to safe weightbelt management is to distribute weight in a way that you can swim down with an accidental loss of your jettisonable weight, not whether you can swim up with all your weight firmly attached (you should be able to do that, but that's a different issue).
I for one am firmly opposed to any gear arrangement for open water that has no provision for the quick, easy, automatic even in a panic situation jettisoning of enough weight to achieve positive buoyancy - it doesn't have to be much (at depth you should be neutrally buoyant as a matter of course, so any jettisoned weight will start you up), but is should be enough to achieve positive buoyancy at the surface with a fully deflated BC or a flooded drysuit (if you're OOA and have a failed BC and a flooded drysuit it just ain't your day).
DIRW (doing it Rick's way) dictates a weight system that your average OW diver can jettison quickly and easily when they come to help you.
How much is enough but not too much jettisonable weight? Depends on your gear, but usually 6 to 10 pounds. If you need more than that in jettisonable weight to float at the surface you might want to have a serious look at changing your gear configuration.
Rick

[rcohn]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...

NO!
Embolism is an overexpansion injury, the result of trapped air in the lungs (holding your breath) expanding beyond the capacity of the lungs during ascent. As long as you maintain an open airway (breathe continuously) you can handle any ascent rate you can achieve on scuba (drop your weights and inflate your BC and swim for the surface as hard as you can) without danger of embolism.



I just want to note this assumes healthy lungs and no mistakes when keeping the airway open.


Rick Murchison once bubbled...
The key to safe weightbelt management is to distribute weight in a way that you can swim down with an accidental loss of your jettisonable weight, not whether you can swim up with all your weight firmly attached (you should be able to do that, but that's a different issue).

........

How much is enough but not too much jettisonable weight? Depends on your gear, but usually 6 to 10 pounds. If you need more than that in jettisonable weight to float at the surface you might want to have a serious look at changing your gear configuration.
Rick
I agree with the comments about easily and reliably ditchable weight for a recreational diver. One of the great fallacies propagated on the Internet is the ridiculous claim that the safest way to dive in a cave is obviously the safest way to conduct a shallow recreational reef dive. The needs are very different, the bailout options are different (rec divers can ascend directly to the surface) and the gear and training should reflect these differences.

Keeping only 6 to 10 lb ditchable may work well for warm water divers, but is much more difficult for cold water divers. My habit is to keep my freediving weight on my weight belt and the rest fixed to the tank. The real problem I see is the terrible design of weight belt buckles, much to easy to accidentally release. If the belts were more reliable, accidental ditching would be a minimal concern. Some of the new integrated weight releases are more secure, its time to do the same for weight belts.


Ralph

[Cave Diver]

rcohn once bubbled...
3. Whether the US Navy still does the training is irrelevant, a rapid ascent is still possible. I believe the US Navy still carries escape gear and the British still do the training. Even it everyone immediately ceased all rapid escapes, thousands of training dives and a few actual escapes were done in the past.

One of those references you cited states "Diver, please not this is NOT an acceptable ascent rate." In my (possibly skewed opinion) they are stating that just because someone escaping from a submarine could possibly survive an ascent rate like that, I diver will not. Lung overexpansion is not the only reason for slow ascent rates when breathing compressed air. Sure you might be able to exhale, but what about that nitrogen bubble that comes out of solution as you rocket to the surface.

Thanks for providing the links tho, it answered my question (because it seemed as if it did not refer to divers at all) and provided some interesting reading.

[rcohn]

I'll try one more time.

Some ill-informed divers seem to believe that a rapid ascent because of lost weights or whatever will almost certainly result in embolism and death. The extremely rapid ascents used by various navies PROVES this to be completely false. Relax and breath or continuously exhale and you will be ok. This is the only point I’m trying to make. IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY AM I SUGGESTING THAT RAPID ASCENTS ARE A GOOD OR SAFE PRACTICE.

Bends are a different story of course. For a recreational diver, a rapid ascent may lead to the bends. However, if you are within the NDLs the odds fall very strongly in your favor that it will not. For a technical diver with a large deco obligation the bends may quickly lead to death as in “The Last Dive.”

While you may point out that this is the tech diving section, Spectre who started this tangent, is not a technical diver and has no risk of death from explosive decompression.

Ralph

[Scuba446]

OK, thanks...

[Spectre]

rcohn once bubbled...
1. No one is recommending dumping the weight belt, the question is will you almost certainly die if it happens.
[...]
It comes down to proper training and education, a subject on which many people on this board love to pontificate. Very rapid ascents are possible if you breathe normally or exhale continuously and relax. If you believe that you are going to die you will be in a panic, where the natural reaction is to hold your breath. If you panic and hold your breath, you will embolize and may die.


Ok... just a little clarification. First off... I give instructions to my buddies on how to release my weight belt. That obviously implies that I condone it. I like to make it clear that it should be done as an absolute last resort.



It sounds like your skills need work.


This... I feel is an un-called for comment. You've never dove with me, so you have no basis to make claims on my skills. If _I_ am dumping my weight belt, I am/will be completely aware of my situation. If my buddy is dumping my weight belt, skills won't make any difference, as I won't be in any position to draw on any skills [e.g. unconcious].

One more thing. You definately don't know me very well. One of the driving forces in my survival skills is accepting the worst. If I believe there is a high probablily of my injury or death, I accept it, and move on with my full focus on doing what I need to do to survive.



Spectre who started this tangent, is not a technical diver and has no risk of death from explosive decompression.


no risk from explosive decompression... *sigh* Chatting with me at the bar a couple of times does not make you an expert on me, my dive profiles, nor my personal physiology. If you would like to dispute comments I make, please dispute them with facts, and not assumptions.

[Spectre]

rcohn once preached...
2. Whether it’s 1 second or many hours at depth, the risk of embolism is the same, which I assume (hope) is why Jeff thinks he will die.

Ok... I guess I wasn't done with my replies. Please point out where I said _anything_ about embolisms as a result of ditching a weight belt. If it was an embolism I was worried about, I wouldn't condone dumping my weight belt at all, and I wouldn't have mentioned that I have been working on finding ways to distribute my weight enough to have a weight belt that would be safely ditchable.

I'm _not_ referring to embolisms, I'm referring to uncontrolled rocket ascents and _everything_ that would come into play in that sense.

Now I'd like to see your proof that it is impossible to receive a fatal DCS hit when ascending from 130 fsw at the edge of NDL limits.

[rcohn]

Spectre,

Wow, what can I possibly say?

Sadly, your posts say it all.

Maybe you'd like to explain to us why you believe a released weight belt is a "Death Sentence in the Northeast US." Exactly what is "_everything_ that would come into play in that sense?"

Ralph

[Spectre]

rcohn once bubbled...
Maybe you'd like to expain to us why you believe a released weight belt is a "Death Sentence in the Northeast US."


I believe I've already explained myself and the question is sitting on your table. You seem to be implying that there is no way to take a fatal DCS hit when diving within recreational diving limits, and there is no way that an unconcious diver can be killed when ascending from depth.

If that is true, I'd like to see the proof. Until such time, I prefer to not try and test your theories.

[rcohn]

Only a fool would try to prove a negative. Show me one example of a diver, diving within the No Decompression Limits, who died from explosive decompression (not AGE) after a rapid ascent.

Unconscious divers (again within the NDLs) should be brought to the surface under control, dropping the weight is the last option if nothing else works. Rescue courses will teach this. You might only need to drop their weights if there was a total BC failure or they were grossly overweighted in the first place. Again, it is a training issue if you or your buddies are planning to just drop weights and shoot an unconscious diver to the surface. Also why in the world would you imagine dropping a 6 lb belt is safe for an unconscious diver but a heavier belt is dangerous ("I have been working on finding ways to distribute my weight enough to have a weight belt that would be safely ditchable.")?

Weights might need to be dropped on a conscious diver for a deep OOA buoyant ascent or to escape a major downcurrent. A conscious diver can exhale and avoid embolism. Weights might also need to be dropped as a last resort in extreme circumstances to try to save a sinking or badly narked diver who is completely uncontrollable otherwise. For example see: http://www.scubadiving.com/talk/read.php?f=1&i=522718&t=522718 this was a case where dropping the weights would have been a reasonable response.

Finally since you avoided answering my question I'll repeat it. Maybe you'd like to explain to us why you believe a released weight belt is a "Death Sentence in the Northeast US." Exactly what is _everything_ that would come into play in that sense?"

Ralph

[Spectre]

rcohn stated...

Finally since you avoided answering my question I'll repeat it. Maybe you'd like to explain to us why you believe a released weight belt is a "Death Sentence in the Northeast US." Exactly what is _everything_ that would come into play in that sense?"


The subject of that post was not indicative of the true indication. The "If you feel you need to sentence me to death" in my dive briefings is stated in jest... there are a number of people on this board that have heard that lecture. It is ment to emphasise the "as an absolute last resort". Once again, the fact that I brief my dive buddies on exactly how to release my weights is evidence that I feel there is a place for the release of weights.

I never once stated anything regarding embolisms, which you seemed to assume and then use to make judgements about my diving skill. "everything that comes into play" involves exactly that. You assumed I was referring to embolisms, I was referring to _every_ risk involved with dropping a weight belt at depth.

I'm going to assume that you don't actually believe that dropping a weight belt is a safe endeavor. So we are arguing to the same final result... dropping a weight belt at depth should be done as an absolute last result. If you don't agree with the way I communicate that with my buddies, I don't care... I don't dive with you [and after this thread, probably won't].



Show me one example of a diver, diving within the No Decompression Limits, who died from explosive decompression (not AGE) after a rapid ascent.

I'm not going to argue the death point anymore. Ok... perhaps your right, and the only way I can end up dead from a rapid ascent is in my own lack of skills. But 1) I don't feel like testing that theory, and 2) I know how to release my weight belt. If my buddy is releasing my weight belt, then _my_ skills have nothing to do with the situation.


Rescue courses will teach this.

Yes I know that. However the fact of the matter is Open Water courses teach it's ok to drop a weight belt, but don't go into nearly enough depth necessary for students to truely understand it. Sure, an OW student thinking dropping a weight belt on the surface is fine, but I want to make _sure_ anyone I dive with knows it's a last resort at depth.



Also why in the world would you imagine dropping a 6 lb belt is safe for an unconscious diver but a heavier belt is dangerous ("I have been working on finding ways to distribute my weight enough to have a weight belt that would be safely ditchable.")?


Your putting words in my mouth. All dive planning must be done with the worst case scenario in mind. So the worst case scenaro in loosing a 20# weight belt is that you are now 20# positive. I personally don't believe I can physically control an ascent when 20# positive. I also don't believe that a buddy will be able to control _me_ when I'm 20# positive.

The fact of the matter is Rapid ascents are extremely risky I know that, you know that. I chose to communicate that to my buddies a different way than you, but that doesn't change the facts that it's risky.

Now I've got better things to do with my life than get into one of your "I'm going to argue something completely rediculous because I'm a scuba god" debates, and I'm sorry I got involved in the first place.

However... I don't make assumptions to your diving skill or experience. You don't know s**t about mine, and therefore I would appreciate if you didn't make assumptions about them to help you build up your stupid soapboxes.

[rcohn]

Spectre once bubbled...
I never once stated anything regarding embolisms, which you seemed to assume and then use to make judgements about my diving skill. "everything that comes into play" involves exactly that. You assumed I was referring to embolisms, I was referring to _every_ risk involved with dropping a weight belt at depth.

I'm not going to argue the death point anymore. Ok... perhaps your right, and the only way I can end up dead from a rapid ascent is in my own lack of skills.

Ok, now we're making some progress, there is no "everything that comes into play", that was just a bit of attempted smoke and mirrors, you now realize that the only realistic risk of death comes from embolism.


Spectre once bubbled...
Now I've got better things to do with my life than get into one of your "I'm going to argue something completely rediculous because I'm a scuba god" debates, and I'm sorry I got involved in the first place.

I've never considered myself a scuba god, there are too many divers around with far more extensive experience than mine. We're all still learning. I do sometimes try to pass on some of the knowledge I've acquired. When I am clueless on a subject, I keep my mouth shut. I make relatively few posts, in nearly two years on this board I've only posted 358 times, you on the other hand have 674 posts in just four months.

Let's look at your very recent record of 'informative' posts that I have noticed.

You advised a diver who had taken a very serious CNS hit with residual symptoms that it was ok to continue diving "Yes... your doctor won't like it, and it's a risk, but yea, if your careful you can continue diving." http://www.scubaboard.com/t12634/s.html

You told a diver switching from salt to fresh water that he only need 1 additional pound of lead, "The difference between fresh and salt water is about 3%, so you'd only need to add a pound for the bouyancy difference." http://www.scubaboard.com/t12676/s.html

And of course my favorite "I have no doubts that dropping a 20# belt at depth will result in my death." Note nothing is said in here about being unconscious. http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12804&perpage=15&display=&pagenumber=1

These are just a few of your helpful and informative posts that I happened to read recently. Unfortunately for you, if you consider that correcting complete nonsense and misinformation is arguing "something completely rediculous" you'll just have to get used to it, I'm going to continue.

Ralph

[Spectre]

My apologies to everyone... I'll be moving this to private mail...