what to buy?

[scubarookie]

hello fellows divers. i need advice on buying eqipment. i,m very new to scuba diving. just signed up to take the open water course. and i have been into my local scuba store and checking the internet for equipment. and the choices and prices are endless!! can anyone give advice on what to buy. i need everything from a bcd to a reg , wet suit, mask and finns. i really dont feel like spending $3000.00 or more.
any help would be great.....thanks

[TheRedHead]

Most courses require you buy mask, fins, snorkel, booties before the class. I would also buy a good-fitting wetsuit in a thickness suitable for your OW checkout dives. My next purchase would be a BC as a poor fitting one can sour your diving experience. You can rent regulators just about anywhere, sometimes with a computer. My personal philosophy is to own anything that has to fit to your body rather than take the chance of renting poor fitting gear.

[StSomewhere]

My advice would be, don't be in such a hurry. Lots of us when we were in your position bought stuff that, sooner or later, we wished we hadn't. Some have it collecting dust in a closet, others of us took a bath eBay-ing it so we could offset part of the cost of getting what we should've bought to begin with. Rent different types of equipment or borrow others stuff if you can until you have enough experience with it to know what you'll really want.

The only thing you should need for your class is mask, fins, maybe a wetsuit.

That said, based solely on my experiences with rental regs the first thing I would buy after that is a quality reg set. Something timetested and bulletproof, not something with the latest widget on it.

[scubarookie]

yes i do need the mask and finns. and i,ll get them at the local scuba store. before i go into the pool. we are planning a trip late in the year to jamica so i,ll probably get the wet suit for that climate. would a 3 mm suit do for diving in the great lakes in the summer?

[scubarookie]

thanks stsomewhere. thats good advice. my closests are already full of stuff i dont use anymore!!
just wondering on brand names are they all the same for quality and servicablity?
which ones are better? i have been looking at scubapro lately. the knighthawk bcd. and the 600 reg.

[TheRedHead]

With warm water diving plans, I don't think you need a $600 regulator. I dive a $229 Zeagle Envoy to the limits of recreational diving and am pleased with the performance.

You will need a thick wetsuit to dive the Great Lakes. If you only plan to use it during your checkout dives, I would rent it, as much as I dislike renting wetsuits.

[DalTexDiver]

3MM would be good down to about 70 degrees or so depending on your cold tolerance. For colder water, you might consider renting a farmer john 5 MM that will give you more neoprene on the trunk of your body. Once you get cold, you will stay cold. A 3MM is better for tropical water that is in the mid 70's or so, once again dependng on your cold tolerance. Water takes heat out of our bodies much faster than air.

One thought about dive equipment. It is not just a toy, it is life support equipment you use in a potentially hostile environment, like 60 ft. underwater. I have always used the rule of thumb to buy the higher end of the middle range of products. You get the features you need but a reg, for instance, does not need to be made out of titanium to be reliable, functional, and last a good long while. Unreliable cheap equipment is not a bargain.

[TheRedHead]

Almost ALL modern regulators are reliable in tropical waters. I've taken a $99 Mares Axis to over 100 feet and it performed flawlessly. Regulators can become unreliable from lack of care and service.

[StSomewhere]

And there is the slippery slope. If you want gear for warm and cold water, that's different from someone who only dives twice a year in Cozumel. As others have said, a 3mm suit isn't much good past 70°-ish, personally I'd even say colder than 75° is borderline for adding a hooded vest or going to a 5mm suit but that depends partly on you and how your body copes with the cold. I have a 7/6mm suit for local diving and a 3/2mm for the Keys, and am thinking of adding a 5/4mm for what passes for winter in Florida. If I dove regularly in Puget Sound or the Great Lakes I'd have already bought a drysuit, but now we are talking serious coin and rentals should be the order of the day before you go that route. See how you can nickle-and-dime yourself into spending big bucks without realizing it?

As far as coldwater regs go, I like Apeks as they are basically bulletproof. The DS4 first stage, maybe the ATX50 second stages or their new XTX100/200 line but stay away from the swivels on the first stage as its far more useless that you would ever imagine. Other good brands I'd consider would be the Zeagles with env seals (the ZX-FlatheadVI or ZX-DSV, not the ZX-50D). Depending on who you ask the piston first stages on the Scubapro regs are either fine for coldwater or will freeflow like crazy, because of that SP has come out with a new diaphram MK17 first stage designed for cold water. My opinion is that a coldwater reg works anywhere, but that isn't necessarily true with warmwater regs. If you like Scubapro then get the MK17 first stage matched with something reasonable for the second stages like the G250HP (you don't need to buy them the way they are bundled in the catalog). PM DA Aquamaster for more advice on SP regs, he works on these all the time and knows them literally inside and out.

[TheRedHead]

:icorolley My buddy and I make 60+ dives a year in Coz. He dives an Apex ATX200 and I dive a Zeagle. Neither of us has perished diving the same profiles. The REAL question is whether or not you NEED a cold water regulator that is environmentally sealed.

[StSomewhere]

:icorolley My buddy and I make 60+ dives a year in Coz. He dives an Apex ATX200 and I dive a Zeagle. Neither of us has perished diving the same profiles. The REAL question is whether or not you NEED a cold water regulator that is environmentally sealed.


we are planning a trip late in the year to jamica so i,ll probably get the wet suit for that climate. would a 3 mm suit do for diving in the great lakes in the summer?

Two wetsuits are one thing, two regs is another. If scubarookie wants to dive in Jamaica and the Great Lakes he should by one coldwater reg that will work for both environments. He might not be so happy buying an Envoy for the Caribbean when he finds its the wrong reg for Lake Superior (and its not upgradable). The whole idea is to buy the right thing the first time without overspending.

HTH

John

[TheRedHead]

:rolleyes: If he's ONLY going to dive the Great Lakes for his OW cert dives, he can rent a regulator, which he'll probably do anyway. He needs to be aware of the potential for LDS over-hype on "life support" equipment. Of course, we all know that the best regulator is the one sold your local dive shop. ;)

I have 3 regulators and I don't think it is an odd thing. Two are environmentally sealed, but I prefer the Zeagle of ease of breathing.

[spectrum]

Hi ScubaRookie

You've been given a lot of good advice so far and I'd like to add/repeat a few points.

*You will need and want your basic gear for class. As you intend get it locally, it must fit and you are not prepared to sort this out online. Mask, snorkel, booties and fins. Devour the gear forum and lean about differences before you get to the store. Wet/Dry snorkels, Purge/no purge masks, are corrective lenses part of your need? Get the idea, lots of details even in the basics. Expect to spend $150 - $300 depending on needs and preferences.

*Great lakes check-out dives, 7mm wetsuit minimum. A core warmer is probably also in order. Many choices there again devour the exposure protection forum. Drive a stake in the sand and buy the protection you need to dive at home so you can become a safe and proficent local diver.

*I'll defer to more seasoned travelers about what you need for your trip. But a 3mm suit is a minor expense and you may even enjoy it for a few shalow water fresh water dives in the summer. It's a fun break from the heavy rubber.

Regulator set and BC. Best not to buy until you are certified. Believe it or not folks do get certified and never dive again. Meanwhile in class ond on cert dives pay attenton what you are usuing. Devour the BC forum and decide what you want and shop/try from there.

If you can't spring for the Regulator set and BC together get the BC. It's the heart and soul of your diving. Everything about your buoyancy control and how you function in the water is built around this item. As a novice diver any rental regulator will serve you well. Expect $400-500 for a BC and $500-$600. for a complete regulator set (Ist stage primary and alternate second stages and full analog instrumentation - tank pressure, depth, compass) You can go alittle higher or lower than these ranges but I think that money will get you into a good selection. Remember to get a cold water regulator, this is true even if you do not plan something like ice diving. At moderate depths you will encounter water cold enough to challenge a warm water regulator due to the cooling effect of delivering compressed air to you. We dive Sherwood Blizzards (we are in Maine) reasonable cost, highly regarded in cold water, easilly serviced almost anyplace, and wicked reliable. A cold water unit will be dandy in warm water.

Computer.. I usally discourage new divers from jumping into this accesory but if you intend to dive a lot on the trip you will want one in time to understand it before the trip. Ge a nitrox capable unit for future growth, it will also manage plain air dives. $300 - $500 as a range. IMO save your money and skip air integrated, let alone wireless. As a minimum you will need a timepiece, something as simple as a cheap wrist watch with adequate depth rating will suffice.

Take your time, asking questions is a great beginning. The New diver, Basic and gear forums are a tremendous resource. Find a model you are interested in? Do a search, you are probably not the first to mention it. Becoming gear savy is a bigger challenge in many ways than actually getting certified. This is real money, your money, take your time do your homework and welcome to the sport.

Pete

[StSomewhere]

Rereading the threading, how does having to buy multiple regulators help scubarookie with not wanting to drop $3000 on gear? Or spending close to that amount but still having to turn around and rent gear?

I'm sure the Envoy is a good reg for you, but it doesn't sound like its the right one for all the kinds of diving scubarookie wants to do.

[scubarookie]

wow thats alot of dives a year. i,m looking at maybe 15 - 20 dives a year. if i,m lucky..
well i dont plan on doing alot of cold water diving. for now i think i will be a tropical diver..lol..i like the warmer temp,s. plus the visablity seems to be alot better. so if need be i can always rent some equipment for my test here. but i will look into those that you suggested..thanks

[TheRedHead]

Rereading the threading, how does having to buy multiple regulators help scubarookie with not wanting to drop $3000 on gear? Or spending close to that amount but still having to turn around and rent gear?

I'm sure the Envoy is a good reg for you, but it doesn't sound like its the right one for all the kinds of diving scubarookie wants to do.

Surely we read different posts...like warm water...few dives per year...

[StSomewhere]

I guess I didn't realize "Great Lakes in the summer" meant warm water. Silly me...

[TheRedHead]

:jpshakehe scubarookie clearly states he aspires to be a tropical diver. Now he is going to simply run away because he will think us pugilistic..

[scubarookie]

lol..no you dont have to worry about me running away redhatmama. i need all the advice i can get. this is an awesome site lots of good info.! looks like i have lots of shopping to do. oh the joy! lol

[ezlife]

You live in Ontario(like me), never buy a warm water reg. I'm amazed when I go into a local dive shop and see "tropical" equipment.

If you want to support a LDS, take a trip down south in the USA(i.e. Florida) and buy your equipment there. It's about half off Canadian MSRP and it's someones LDS. Or buy online and give your LDS a Thank You card and $20. That's all mine says he makes on a sale.

[BrianV]

Buy the basic goodies (mask, fins, booties, snorkel). Make sure you select a good mask that fits well. Don't get too caught up in selecting fins. Your next purchase should be a wetsuit. A one piece 3mm will serve you well from water 70-85F (which is what Hawaii and all the tropical stuff is). I can dive 65F no problem in my 3mm without a hood, but find a hood a nice to have at that temp.

After that, the first major scuba purchase should be your BCD. I haven't been on SB long, but you'll find tons of people telling you to go with BackPlate + Wing. If you really plan on going all out with diving, maybe you can consider that, but I'd recommend a decent, light weight jacket or back inflate (Zeagle Scout, Oceanic Probe, Cressi Aqualight, Dacor Talon, etc.). Find one that's weight integrated with rear trim pockets and good utility pockets. D-rings are nice for when you start attaching things, but most importantly find one that fits well and is comfortable. I am NOT a fan of the octo Air2 integrated BCDs, and they cost more. I would go with a conventional BCD over an integrated.

If you're a 5'9"-6'1" diver you can easily rent a BCD anywhere you go, but if your real large or small you may have difficulty renting. My girlfriend is 5'3" and less than 110 LBS and couldn't ever find a well fitting BCD so we finally bought her an Extra Small Oceanic Isla (which is a real nice BCD for her needs). That was all she owned until a couple weeks ago until she started purchasing more. With that BCD she could travel with the piece of mind of knowing it was going to fit and not stress out about an improperly fitting BCD.

After that, your next purchase (in my opinion) should be your reg. Although rental regs are typically high quality regs, I don't like that they've been used by others. Also, some regs free flow more, some breathe harder than others, etc. I like knowing how my reg works and what to expect from it. Unfortunately this is a multi-step event because you can't just buy the reg and use it, you'll need an SPG and depth guage as well as an octo. Expect this to be one of your spendier purchases. If you don't get a computer you'll need the depth guage, but there are sub-$100 combo guages available.

After the reg, a computer is a wise purchase. You'll probably want a console computer, but you'll quickly learn that wrist computers are a lot better, plus you won't have to retrofit the console you previously bought to accomodate another device.

I imagine at this point you'll want more wet suit stuff like hoods, gloves, vests, another suit, etc. I now have pretty much two suits, two hoods, etc. Even though you're a tropical diver, you'll likely want to dive in the winter or something.

After that there is weights and eventually the tank (if you plan on local diving a lot).

In between those major purchases there are tons of things like clips, safety devices, lights, knives, bags, etc. Basically every time you go to your local dive shop you will have an itch for something. I buy about half of my stuff at my lds, and half online. Things that I know will need frequent service I buy from the LDS (regulator especially), and they've already tuned both my regs a couple times. Things like wet suits are harder to buy online, but now that I know my sizes I buy those online too. I stick with Henderson, and I bought my first 3mm 1pc Henderson (regular, not gold core or hyperstretch) for $180 from my LDS. I recently bought a regular Henderson 7/5 online for $129.99 (would've spent $350 plus at the LDS). Bought my tank at the LDS because I get free air fills that way, plus if you buy online, shipping is a lot and you have to pay for your stickers anyways.

Have fun and take your time, it's not a race to get fully outfitted. Don't buy super high end stuff, but buy good stuff.

[Damselfish]

I see you're from Canada - depending what time of year and where you dive in the carribean (not to mention any natural insulation) you may find even 3mm overkill there. It's a very individual thing.

[scharmack]

I would go dry myself, there is no comparison to diving cold wet or dry!!! I see a couple of new Apollo dry suits on craigslist.com Seattle for $500.00 each, I dive with the exact same suit in the Puget Sound and absolutely love it. I would do my home work and by the right gear the first time, you'll save money in the long run.

[drew52]

All great and advice and just to reinforce something... Even if you plan on being a warm water , several dives a year type diver buy a cold water reg... You never know how your plans may change... Buy a regulator that is good for everything you only want to buy one once apparently (ScubaPro, Apex, apparently Zeagle from reading scubaboard but I have no experience with it).

Fins, mask; get stuff that fits nicely don't worrry about cost brand etc most important is fit.

BCD, get one that is comfortable, don't worry about BP/Wing and get one that you are happy with now... Personally a BCD is the one item that at some point as your diving changes you may want to upgrade. Many new divers are not comfortable in a back inflation BCD but discover as they progress that this is something they prefer.

Wetsuits only have a limited life anyway so buy whatever you think is going to suit your diving. The 3mm is great, if you the bug bites you can always buy the 7mm needed for the lakes.

Not sure about this rental thing either; If I had rented gear by the time I realised I preferred back inflation I could have bought the BCD I owned at the time in rental fees.

Besides if the Scuba Bug bites money will no longer be an issue, I spend all my money and more on diving. Oh and I'm always looking to upgrade something so I guess for me it would be impossible to buy the right gear first time. There is always going to be something new, something I haven't tried or something that just somehow seems better than what I have...

If you're like me do some research on each item; search the scubaboard, search google. If you can get it serviced easily, it fits nicely, suits your plans, your pocket, any possible growth you may think of currently and other people like it then buy it.