NE Wreckdiving and Artifact Obsession

Having spent a considerable amount of time on boats out of VA Beach and NC lately, I have one question for the divers that frequent these operations and wrecks. What is the deal with the need to bring stuff up?

My buddy and I surfaced from a dive on the Morgan last weekend and were making our way to the fin ladder when we see some idiot on the platform trying to pound the projectile out of a 14mm shell casing with a pipe wrench. His reasoning, "The captain won't let any shells on board that still have the projectiles and powder in them." We stayed the hell away while he finished and dumped the still dry powder into the ocean and made his way to the cabin with his prize. Am I the only person in the NE that thinks this is stupid? I mean, for @*!#&@'s sake, the guy was POUNDING on an artillery shell with a god@#@% pipe wrench! Not to mention, when we saw him and his buddies on the dive, they spent the whole dive buried up to their shoulders in silt looking for the damn things while we were busy wandering around inside the wreck, checking out amberjacks and eels, and watching a pod of dolphin play. What is the point, somebody please?

Thank god that **** is illegal in Ontario.

If that guy was diving a wreck in Ontario, the capitan would have confiscated the artifact, his dive gear, his car keys, handed him a life jacket, tossed him off the boat and then called the police.

I honestly don't see why some people must have artifacts. If I want to see them, I'll dive the wreck again.

To some extent I can see the attraction: the artifact seekers can hold a piece of history in their hands. Men made this thing a long time ago, and now I can hold it. But some people get stupid with it- I'm told that here in Northern Virginia, authorities were faced with so many lootings at the Bull Run Battlefield site that they had to sow the area with steel washers to confound the metal detectors. The Gettysburgh Memorial is routinely vandalized. Just stupid. Leave the history intact for others to enjoy!

In your story, I can't tell who is more stupid: the diver, who wants to clutter his living room with potentially explosive results, or the charter captain, who said "You can't take it on my boat- but hammer on it with my pipe wrench and it'll be ok!"

JimC brings up a good point: are there rules, or at least guidelines, about removing artifacts from a wreck? Do you need a salvage permit to remove hazardous material? During OW certification class our instructors told us about reef ettiquette- is there a similar wreck ettiquette?

It depends on where the wreck is and who lays claim to it. It is common practice to take artifacts from many of the east coast wrecks while in the great lakes it is a no no. Many of the great lakes wrecks are in UW parks or reservs or claimed as state property. Some are claimed by insurance companies, the original owner or salvors and go through years of litigation. Before removing or, for that matter, touching anything make sure you know what the applicable laws in that area are. It is often complex, hence the court battles, so when in doubt, don't touch.

some people are idiots....

I was on a charter boat last fall and we were discussing the U-853 off of RI. I mentioned in a critical fashion to the captain that I had heard stories of people bringing up human bones from the wreck. His reply was that "his buddy" has a skull from the wreck in his living room. I just shook my head in disbelief....and people wonder why there is talk of closing war garve sites to divers....

Here in New Jersey and more to the point... The LDS...the topic of removing artifacts seams to be encouraged by many divers.
My theory is....if you keep taking parts off the wreck, then soon there will be nothing to visit. With advanced in radar and sonar, the number of ships that go down has been greatly reduced.
What will we dive on if all the wrecks end up in the living rooms or front yards of previous divers.
LEAVE SOMETHING FOR THE NEXT GENERATION

I will gladly step down from the soapbox and don my flame retardant suit.:fire: :fire:

Dectek,
I never thought of that before. We don't lose many ships these days so there are precious few "real wrecks" (i.e. not intentionally sunk artificial reef types). That is a scary thought...I love visiting real wrecks and the history involved.

Dectek once bubbled...
My theory is....if you keep taking parts off the wreck, then soon there will be nothing to visit.

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Actually, I think the sea is doing a better job of chewing away at the wrecks than the divers who bring up portholes and such. Many of our wrecks in NC are from WWII, and are in varying states of collapse already from storm and salt corrosion. People aren't down there hauling up large pieces of the structure and making it worse, in general.

Now, I don't think you should be stupid or dangerous (see live ordinance) and I don't think you should disturb crew remains or designated historical sites (like the Monitor, which the Navy is actually carving up pretty good right now). I don't generally dive wrecks for the artifacts either, I mostly just like to look. That said, if I run across a small piece of brass, china, etc. and I don't have to put myself in danger to get it, it's probably coming back with me. If I don't get it, the next guy sure will - sophistry maybe, but true nonetheless.

I mostly just like to look. That said, if I run across a small piece of brass, china, etc. and I don't have to put myself in danger to get it, it's probably coming back with me. If I don't get it, the next guy sure will - sophistry maybe, but true nonetheless.

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I pulled some china and glass stuff off the City of Houston last weekend. I'll keep skipping the live ordinance though..

Talking to a buddy down at Morehead with Discovery, and he reported that one of their boats ran across a crate of grenades on a wreck, which they wisely didn't touch. When they came back the next day, the crate was gone. Hey, I know what I want rattling around on the ride back, on my boat loaded with highly-pressurized steel tanks and diesel - a box of really old rusty unstable shrapnel-spewing GRENADES! Maybe next time they'll go poke at the unexploded depth charges on the U-352.