More DIR Questions

[ElectricZombie]

Hi. I have a few more DIR questions that I was wondering about. I'm slowly getting all the pieces for my DIR rig and hope to have the BP and harness in next week. As for the questions...

1. Weight belt or integrated? In the DIR III video, the weight belt is preffered but the reasoning is not explained. Why the weight belt? It seems like integrated weights would be counterproductive in achieving the uncluttered/streamlined look. (I use integrated weights now BTW) I'm not sure which one to choose. I'll only need to start adding weight to my rig once I get a dry suit.

2. Safe Second. The book suggests an unbalanced design since it's less likely to fail or freeflow. I've never had a problem with a balanced reg doing either. Should I still go with an unbalanced reg just in case? The only unbalanced I own is a yellow R190 so, I would have to spray paint it black or get another.

3. When rigging the harness, are the keepers really needed on the shoulder straps?

4. Should a 55lb Halcyon wing be enough lift for steel 100s? What if I start adding 2-3 stage bottles later?


Thanks

[madmole]

R190 will do fine as the second reg. You can turn its venturi down to help prevent free flow some more. As for the colour, What difference does it make? or is DIR now saying not only the exact config but the colour as well.

In my case the primary reg is yellow, in my mouth and on the long hose, my secondary is on a bright yellow bungie so I can see it easier. If I'd had a yellow reg sitting about I'd have used that and not worried about it. Both of mine are Posiedon Jetstreams so can be used either side (in fact my secondary comes over my left shoulder). I dont worry about upstream/downstream/ balanced/unbalanced etc., These regs have worked for me for the 15 years I'v e had them (Sorry DIR folks, people used a primary long hose way before you came along)

Who wants to be boring black anyway. Remember DIR is a very good set of suggestions, it doesn't matter if you modify them to fit your circumstances (but you shouild think it through first), its not always appropriate to wear exactly what they say. I'd like to see Mr Irvine and co. dive in UK caves wearing their DIR kit and then let them say it fits all diving!!!!

As far as the weightbelt goes, if your wearing twin steels you should need hardly any, its much more comfortable to wear the few KG as a bean bag belt on the waist thatnadd even more weight to that great lump on your back. Being able to easily dump a few KG is also an advantage

[Tibbs]

1. With twin 100s (Which I assume are pretty big) and a drysuit it is probably best to figure out how much weight you need and then make yourself a V or P Weight. You won't need a weightbelt at all then!

2. Ideally, your backup reg needs to be dark and your main reg light so that when your buddy goes for a reg, they go for the 'right' one. Even though you've told them on the buddy check to take the one out of your mouth, it always helps to make it that bit more obvious!

3. If by 'keepers' you mean the bits of innertube, they're only necessary to hold your backup lights against your harness - if you don't have lights, don't use them!

4. A 55lb wiing should be more than adequate for lifting all those cylinders - assuming you're properly weighted and your stages are aluminium!

Oh, and Mole this is the only thing I'm going to put on the subject as I really can't be bothered to argue these things any more, but 2 points:-

1. George and JJ have never claimed to have invented any of the things used in DIR - all they did was to bring it all together into a cohesive system.

2. If they wanted to dive in UK caves I'm sure they'd just use the DIR sidemount that was developed - but I'm sure you did your research and knew about that already. You DID do your research didn't you!?

Chris

[madmole]

Yes, I'm aware they have a side mount, but its not what they preach nor is it suitable for small tight tubes with air crawling. A long hose is also a waste of time as we dive solo. there just isn't room to fit a buddy in. Was not critiscising GI or JJ there, just pointing out that there cannot ever be a one size fits all kit solution for everyone

Most of us wear a harness/load belt afair (when cave diving) that allows us to prussic and abseil and clip tanks on with caribiners. I'm fortunate that in my wetsuit wearing 2, 7l 300bar tanks I need no extra weight. IF bouyancy is needed I wear an old horse collar ablj as its small and I have no backpack to mount wings on. Ease of carry is most important as we often have several hours of crawling and climbing to get to a sump

I'm not criticising the DIR setup. I am pretty much DIR in my open water OC gear (I dive an Inspiration now) I just dont see a problem with modifying the DIR set up to suit an individual. Wished DIR had been around when I leant nearly 30 years ago. Would have saved a lot of money/experiment and kit finding out what worked for me (which turns out to be pretty much DIR).

What I do disagree with is the DIR attitude. Spending $200 for a new reg cos the perfectly good one you have is the "wrong" colour being a classic example. Not diving with someone because they have 2 SPG's and therfore are a "stroke" is another

[large_diver]

Zombie,

I'm assuming you're talking about weight keepers used on the harness. In my limited experience, the only place I've seen people using them is where the shoulder straps pass through the slots on the bottom of the backplate. I used them on my harness. If nothing else, it keeps the straps in place and prevents your harness belt from slipping back through the slots when you don't have it on. Bottom line, I feel like it adds more stability. Your mileage may vary ;-)

[Rick Murchison]

madmole once bubbled...
As for the colour, What difference does it make?
But... but... if I don't look DIR I can't be DIR can I?
-------------------
Color as a criterion is preposterous. If you can't do it in the dark you shouldn't be there.
Rick

[O-ring]

A long hose is also a waste of time as we dive solo.

(I dive an Inspiration now)

You might want to drop JJ a note and let him know what color all your gear is so he can find your body one of these days.

[Rick Murchison]

O-ring once bubbled...
You might want to drop JJ a note and let him know what color all your gear is so he can find your body one of these days.
That's helpful...
Sometimes I grow weary of these "my way or the highway" disputes. The fact is that diving covers a vast range of conditions, missions and goals pursued by all sorts and conditions of people. What is safe and appropriate for one dive may well be disastrous for another. We all need to make room for the possibility that we don't have the "ultimate solution" to every dive scenario with a single configuration or set of procedures. It just isn't so. Solo caving is a case in point - there are systems where solo is without doubt the "safest" way to conduct the dive (though when you get to that dive "safety" gets real relative, in my mind) - there simply isn't room for a buddy and having one is nothing but a liability. On the other hand, I personally like to dive in caves where the optimum team is three. There is a vast difference in "my kind of cave" and what madmole is exploring. We both have our well considered points in formulating our dive plan.
Now, what say we all relax and go blow some bubbles?
Rick

[O-ring]

When I see the words "solo" and "CCR" in the same post it makes me wince. ;)

[ElectricZombie]

I don't think that DIR requires that your regs be any certain color. The reason I was going to spray paint my R190 black is because I think that is makes it less of a target for some random diver who dosn't understand how the long hose system works. I wouldn't want them snatching my safe second instead of the long hose. My usual buddy would of course know to wait for the long hose as we had talked about. I seems like painting the R190 black could possibly help solve some potential problems.

[Fetch]

Might check with the manufacturer if this is a serious concern for you (and I do understand the reasoning). Apeks at least makes reg covers of varying colors that you could change out... its very likely there is one available for the R190 as well.

...in fact, on a short journey through scubapro.com, they actually feature the R190 with a black face, it should be fairly easy to order one through a scubapro dealer.

jeff

[ElectricZombie]

O-ring: Do you ever do any diving at Lake Rawlings Virginia? I was just there Sunday.

[O-ring]

O-ring: Do you ever do any diving at Lake Rawlings Virginia? I was just there Sunday.

Funny you should ask, I was there Sunday as well. My buddy and I had come from a couple dives off VA Beach (Saturday) to meet another guy from the board (Tombiowami) to test out his Halcyon HID. We did a night dive Sat. night (around 11 pm) and then camped out. We met another guy from one of the local dive clubs up here who was testing out a set of doubles and did a dive Sunday morning. Maybe you saw us...we were on a big green tarp in the shade right near the entry point. We only did one dive...probably around 10 am or so and then we left.

[ElectricZombie]

Yep, I remember seeing you guys there. I asked someone in your group about where to take a DIR class...some where in Raleigh right? I wish I could have hung around and asked some more questions but I had a class to move along. Maybe I'll see you guys around later. Once I get my DIR setup complete, I wouldn't mind meeting you all for a dive.

[madmole]

At no point did I say, I used the Inspiration solo or cave dive using the Inspiration

For a start the turtle wouldn't fit in where I dive caves. I use different kits for diferent dives. (A very none DIR idea)

Personally I also think that those that dive solo on a rebreather are dicing with death. On OC all the failure modes give me some warning while I'm still conscious and able to fix it. On the rebreather most mean I'm unconcious, so I take along a spare breain and body (ie a buddy) to deal with it

I prefer buddy diving. Its just that in most UK caves you physically cant fit 2 people in so you get no choice

[O-ring]

Yep, I remember seeing you guys there. I asked someone in your group about where to take a DIR class...some where in Raleigh right? I wish I could have hung around and asked some more questions but I had a class to move along. Maybe I'll see you guys around later. Once I get my DIR setup complete, I wouldn't mind meeting you all for a dive.

Anytime you are heading out there let me know and I will see if I can swing down there. You probably talked to my buddy Rolf (the other guy with us was not DIR, but from a recreational club in DC that I hang out with - he just asked us to help him get his doubles squared away). Rolf and I took DIRF with Scott Powell at Down Under Scuba (also a Halcyon dealer). You must have been down on the dock since I don't remember meeting you, but Rolf mentioned he was talking to somebody about a DIRF class.

Sorry I missed you..

[O-ring]

...I was just screwing around.


At no point did I say, I used the Inspiration solo or cave dive using the Inspiration

For a start the turtle wouldn't fit in where I dive caves. I use different kits for diferent dives. (A very none DIR idea)

Personally I also think that those that dive solo on a rebreather are dicing with death. On OC all the failure modes give me some warning while I'm still conscious and able to fix it. On the rebreather most mean I'm unconcious, so I take along a spare breain and body (ie a buddy) to deal with it


I agree on the solo rebreather statement you make 100%.

[divernva]

Hmm... just wanted to address air-sharing. Sorry don't have much to add to the answers given for the initial questions.

Oh, the triglide keepers on the back of the plate are a good idea to keep the shoulder webbing adjusted correctly. If they become loose, your rig may start shifting around.

If you're diving with a non-long hose diver, make sure you go over OOA situations in the pre-dive. Make sure they understand that YOU will be GIVING them the regulator out of your mouth.

If you're diving with a DIR team, everyone should know not to reach for anyone's reg out of their mouths. Signal and people will donate. Remember donate means YOU give.

Rescue classes actually recommend that you stay out of reach of a panicked diver. Which implies that you're responsible for giving the panicked diver your octo. As opposed to OW training where the OOA diver is taught to reach for the octo. They should stick to one concept.

Avoiding "targets" is a good idea, but the yellow cover isn't a problem. You should be able to get a different colored cover from an authorized reseller. On the backup, point the cover down. This allows you to drop your head and grab the backup with your mouth. But depending on reg, you may experience freeflow.

Sorry to hammer on the air-sharing, but it seems to be one of those gray areas.

Ken

PS - O-ring is just screwing around... I witnessed him drift scooter deco-ing with a CCR on his back... solo I might add. :D

[tombiowami]

But it was pretty neat how he got the rebreather connected to The HUB. I have never seen that done before.


Tommy