General questions about regulators

I am just getting started buying equipment, and have some questions about regs. I asked at my LDS, but didn't get a complete answer and was hoping to have some light shed.

1. I understand the difference between balanced and unbalanced first stage regulators, but how much of a difference does it really make?

2. What is the difference between a piston and diaphram first stage? Is one better than another and why?

3. In addition to buying for myself, I am also buying for my daughter, who is 12. While I don't mind spending more on better equipment for myself, because I know I'll use it, but what would be good for her. I want reliability and safety without spending a fortune. Keep in mind, she can only go to 60', so if that makes a difference, I would like to hear opinions.

4. I looked at Mares, Oceanic, and Aqualung...anything good or bad to say about experience with these manufacturers? Any others you would recommend? I like the Aqualung Legend, Micra and Titan LX after reading their literature...any opinions? The LDS I deal w/ is a dealer for Aqualung...but I wonder if this brand is overpriced compared to others (I have nothing to compare with).

5. While on the subject of regulators, what about octapus' and dive computers? I want to buy a computer for myself and expect that I'll end up buying one for my daughter as well. What would you recommend for features and value? I don't care about the latest and greatest, but want something that has the features I'll use most (depth, bottom time, nitrogen loading, SI time, etc...I don't care about air usage). Ill want something mounted in my console, rather than wrist mount.

Sorry for the long post and long list of questions, but when buying two of everything, I have to look at value for the price. Thanks.

John

hey john, welcome aboard... see my answers below

jwalko:

1. I understand the difference between balanced and unbalanced first stage regulators, but how much of a difference does it really make?

you'll feel some difficulty in breathing at depth or when your tank is nearly
empty with the unbalanced reg. it's easy to get used to.

2. What is the difference between a piston and diaphram first stage? Is one better than another and why?

oversimplification: piston uses a bit of water to move the parts; diaphram uses pressure. thus, diaphram remains "sealed"

not much difference between the two. generally, pistons require more maintenance
but are cheaper to maintain while diaphragm requires less maintenance but
are more expensive to maintain.


3. In addition to buying for myself, I am also buying for my daughter, who is 12. While I don't mind spending more on better equipment for myself, because I know I'll use it, but what would be good for her. I want reliability and safety without spending a fortune. Keep in mind, she can only go to 60', so if that makes a difference, I would like to hear opinions.

try the Sea Elite regs. they are solid regs, and budget value. i have used
Sea Elite regs and they are fine or i would not reccomed them. otherwise,
look for specials from the middle-tier reg makers (Mares, Oceanic, Tusa,
Sherwood, etc)

http://www.divers-supply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=696

4. I looked at Mares, Oceanic, and Aqualung...anything good or bad to say about experience with these manufacturers? Any others you would recommend? I like the Aqualung Legend, Micra and Titan LX after reading their literature...any opinions? The LDS I deal w/ is a dealer for Aqualung...but I wonder if this brand is overpriced compared to others (I have nothing to compare with).

Mares and Oceanic are middle-tier regs. Agualung used to be top-tier, but
is mostly considered second tier now. top tier regs are Apeks, Scubapro,
Zeagle, Atomic, and Poseidon.

for good prices, try Scubatoys

5. While on the subject of regulators, what about octapus' and dive computers? I want to buy a computer for myself and expect that I'll end up buying one for my daughter as well. What would you recommend for features and value? I don't care about the latest and greatest, but want something that has the features I'll use most (depth, bottom time, nitrogen loading, SI time, etc...I don't care about air usage). Ill want something mounted in my console, rather than wrist mount.

by far your best bet is the Aeris Atmos 2, in my opinion. it's an excellent
Nitrox computer, and it's being phased out so you should be able to find some
deals.

it has a good algorthym, batteries are cheap, last for ever, and you can change
them yourself, and the display is nice and large. below is the wrist-mount,
but it comes in a console as well:

http://scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=Atmos2Wrist

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Where are you and where do you plan to dive? Consider adding that sort of stuff to your profile, it will make better answers happen.

Pete

Good answers from H2Andy.

I'd suggest bypassing the unbalanced units to make things comfortable for growth. Remember that the regukator will outlive your daughters junior status.

The Sherwoods (Except the Brutt) are balanced pistons that use a unique dry air bleed feature to keep them in effect sealed from the elements. Sherwoods are simple, reliable, cost effective and can be serviced almost anyplace you may go. They are the darling of the rental industry for most of these reasons. We like our Blizzards, if you will never get near cold water the Oasis might be a nice choice.

As for the alternate second stage, I suggest the sister to whatever you get for a primary second stage. This will make getting service easy. I suggest avoiding the ones integrated with the inflator.

We just got a pair ot Atmos-2s from Scubatoys, good choice, great $$ right now. Never heard a bad thing about the model.

Pete

H2Andy;
Thanks for the great info...this is perfect and exactly what I was looking for.

Spectrum...located in Cincinnati. Diving will mainly be here (local quarries) and S. Florida (I have family there) a couple times a year. Might possibly do some Great Lakes diving, but that would be off in the future, after I get more experience and maybe a dry suit.

Thanks again;

John

jwalko:

4. I looked at Mares, Oceanic, and Aqualung...anything good or bad to say about experience with these manufacturers? Any others you would recommend? I like the Aqualung Legend, Micra and Titan LX after reading their literature...any opinions? The LDS I deal w/ is a dealer for Aqualung...but I wonder if this brand is overpriced compared to others (I have nothing to compare with).

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Aqualung is still top tier in my opinion. Apeks and Atomic might rate a few extra points though. BTW.. Aqualung owns Apeks. I've got Aqualung and abosolutely love it so far. Aqualung might seem expensive, but that's because most dealers sell them at "list price". However there are some dealers that will discount them to competitive prices. The only negative I could say about Apeks, Posedium, Atomic, etc, is that there are fewer dealers geopraphically to support this reg, but it's not a reason not to buy it. They still are top notch.

As for which Aqualung? Well both the Legend, Micra, and Titan LX are great. The Legend costs a little more but is very good. The Titan LX would be a regulator that I would reccomend to someone just starting out that wanted a great all around regulator that had good performance for a decent price.

I would be hesitant to reccomend Mares just based on the fact that they own Dacor and quit supporting parts of the product line and service kits for those regulators, leaving a lot of older customers "hanging" with no way to service their reg. BUt I'm sure there are lots of divers here who have Marea and like it.

The Sea Elite that Andy mentioned is not a bad regulator. I had one and had no problems with it. Still got it (but haven't used it in years). It's not a mainstream brand though but a store brand, so you'll have to return it to Divers Supply for support.

5. While on the subject of regulators, what about octapus' and dive computers? I want to buy a computer for myself and expect that I'll end up buying one for my daughter as well. What would you recommend for features and value? I don't care about the latest and greatest, but want something that has the features I'll use most (depth, bottom time, nitrogen loading, SI time, etc...I don't care about air usage). Ill want something mounted in my console, rather than wrist mount.

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Other feature that I'd look for in a computer is one that will hold/log more than 12 dives and one that will time/date stamp dives in the log. The reason for more than 12 dives is for week long trips for example and the same for timestamping. When you do a bunch of dives at once, you can't figure out which is which in the computer later. If they are date/time-stamped, it's easy to figure out which dive is which. my first computer didn't have these features and it was kind of a pain.

Get a comptuer also that has a "user changeable battery" (meaning you can change it and not have to return it to the factory.) Go ahead and buy a spare set of batteries to keep in your save a dive kit. (under $10 typically). Two button verses one button on the settings is much nicer in trying to review the logs or set your nitrox percentage. (again another thing I didn't like about my first computer was the 1 button issue).

For features and value in a Console? Maybe the Genesis React Pro? you can pick one up with pressure gauge, console, computer, compass, and high pressure hose for $270-$380 depending on dealer.

I asked my LDS owner what most of his instructors used if they were doing technical diving. He said that a lot of them use Zeagles, particularly the Envoys, because they are inexpensive yet perform well and are reliable.

Not sure what you mean by a 60' limit. I hear about this from time to time, but I ended up at 80' during my series of OW certification dives. I was 13 at the time.

As far as computers go, I have been reading some good things about cochran computers. However, they are $$$.

i was thinking about this thread, and i realized i ommited some other possibilities
for regs...

for example, Salvo markets some very nice and nicely priced regulators; they
are basically Apeks clones. i've heard good things about them, and the prices
are awesome:

http://www.salvodiving.com/regs__gauges__hoses

also, Dive Rite markets nice Apeks clones, though a bit pricey (you can
get Apeks for about the same, sometimes less):

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/regs/regulators.shtml

as has been mentioned, ease of service is a big consideration. unless you
are willing to send the regs through the mail for maintenance or repairs
(it's viable), you should pick a brand that is "supported" near you, i.e.,
a brand that is sold and maintained by a shop near you.

Piston vs Diaphram is really not a consideration for me. A piston first stage has less moving parts and are easier to service but from a performance standpoint there is no difference. A diaphram reg can be sealed easier (not alldiaphram regs are sealed).
I would buy your daughter a good quality reg. She won't outgrow it and it will last for years. Plus it's always good to have a backup if yours is down for whatever reason.
As far as brands, I've used all three you mentioned they are all good companies. I personally would lean toward the Aqua Lung but you won't be disappointed with Oceanic or Mares either. I really like Oceanic computers, nice and simple. With Octos I like to go with a standard second stage. I'm not a fan of the slim line style octos. No other reason than I hate working on them you need tiny little fingers to put them back together.

jwalko:

H2Andy;
Thanks for the great info...this is perfect and exactly what I was looking for.

Spectrum...located in Cincinnati. Diving will mainly be here (local quarries) and S. Florida (I have family there) a couple times a year. Might possibly do some Great Lakes diving, but that would be off in the future, after I get more experience and maybe a dry suit.

Thanks again;

John

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John,

Good to see another Cincinnati diver! I'm right across the river from you in Northern Kentucky. One suggestion I would have, especially for this area, is to check into what brands your LDS carries, or what brands are sold in the area. A reg may be the greatest thing out there, but if it isn't serviced by anyone around here, it may cost you more in the long run to have that reg sent out and serviced. I know there are a few brands that just aren't really supported here in the tristate area, and others that are only carried by specific shops. Our LDS carries Apeks and Scubapro, and I'd go with either one. I have the Scubapro Mk 25/600 with a Uwatek Smartcom and it works around here even in the middle of winter, and I've never had a problem with it. Hope this helps a bit, and if you have questions about diving here in the Cincy area, feel free to ask me. We may even meet up. Our shop dives every weekend somewhere and I'm usually out with them.

John