Dive planning software logistics

[MikeFerrara]

We have experimented with a bunch of different softwares. I started with freeware and shareware z-planner, gap and v-planner. I eventually purchased Voyager (not cheap). Of course, along with this process there is mucho reading so I have purchased about a million dollars in books and used up another million or so in paper to print articles off the web (so it could be read at more convenient times in more convenient places).

In the end what I had was the ability to plan any dive with any model in the comfort of my office on my desk-top. The trouble was there isn't much diving to be done there. I have never gotten around to getting a lap-top. Of course my company lap-tops have never seemed to work on the road anyway. They seem to be a target for mishaps and battery failures and short battery life.

Diving air or nitrox it's not so bad cuz you can carry tables or (don't hurt me) use a computer but dive mix and you need that computer. Yes, I know what the WKPP does but I'm not ready to try that. I might use some of the principals to make minor modifications to a schedule but I don't create my own from scratch.

On our last trip to whitefish point one of the other divers brought a lap-top. Expecting a failure, I ran some tables using voyager (Voyager has some real nice features) in case the lap-top didn't work. I also ran a bunch of schedules for some generic repetetive dives. All this incase the damn computer didn't work. This would be real tuff to do for dives that really need to be planned as multilevel (unless you want to deco all day).

So to make a long story even longer, I thought I could live through the purchase of one more piece of software. I baught a copy of Dplan for the palm-pilot. The plan was that given the low cost of the machine, if I liked the software, we could carry a backup.

I think the small size of the palm pilot will enable it to be carried easier and in a more protected way than a lap-top. Five or six footers in the lakes tend to bounce things around and break them. On the downside we are back to a gas obsorbtion model (though with GF controled deep stops) that lacks some of the really neat features that some of the pc softwares have.

What kind of solutions have others come up with for planning logistics?

[WreckWriter]

I followed basically the same path as you did. One thing you might want to look at to give yourself more options on your Palm is decoweenie. It gives you a lot more options than D-plan (multiple algorythms, easier deep stop options, and more). I use the 2 to double check each other. I think it's http://www.decoweenie.com . It's an odd name but a really good program.

Tom

[tchil01]

WreckWriter once bubbled...
I followed basically the same path as you did. One thing you might want to look at to give yourself more options on your Palm is decoweenie. It gives you a lot more options than D-plan (multiple algorythms, easier deep stop options, and more). I use the 2 to double check each other. I think it's http://www.decoweenie.com . It's an odd name but a really good program.

Tom

Tom

I know you have been having trouble with your VR3, but when it's working do you use it as a backup to your decoweenie schedules... or do you dive the schedules and have the VR3 as the backup?

Ty

[madmole]

I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying it, but whats the difference between running Dplan or decoweanie on the Ipac and running ProPlanner on a VR3

Apart from one is bomb proof, waterproof, adapts to the real dive parameters, can cope with non planned gas switches, and can do real time deco based on O2, hence giving longer dives and less deco and offers real time dive logging and profiling

They are not that much different in price either, and both can play games :D

And why in a DIR world is a proplanner printed table fine and a VR3 proplanner calculated real time one not (even if you carry the tables as well):confused:

(before you start, I do carry bail out tables and I do plan the dive in advance. I also carry a spare computer (Vyper) as a worst case decompressor)

Not trying to aim this at anyone, but the negative attitude to computers on this board always suprises me. They are just tools (very handy ones)

[MikeFerrara]

I checked out decoweenie. I think I'll get it too. I like the ability to do cave profiles. Like V-planner, it will calculate deco when ascending above your ceiling. When they designed caves they gave no thaught at all to what we would have to do to dive them. It also will do CC. I dive with some folks who have them.

[MikeFerrara]

Now..Now..boys and girls. I just wanted to talk dive planning software. Please don't tell me this is going to turn into one of those XXX debates. Some like a VR3, some just don't have one and some think they are not to be used. I just want to hear what folks were doing.

[Rick Murchison]

madmole once bubbled...
the negative attitude to computers on this board always suprises me. They are just tools (very handy ones)
Yeah, me too.
I think it's more a communications problem than an actual aversion to computers. There's a fear that those who use computers will do so to the exclusion of engaging their brain, so the computer gets slammed... when in fact those who exclude their brain from the planning will do so whether a computer is available or not, and those who plan will do so whether a computer is available or not.
I use a computer on every dive. Sometimes two. Plus a bottom timer and either standard or custom tables (depends on the dive). Personally, I think dive computers are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Rick

[WreckWriter]

tchil01 once bubbled...


Tom

I know you have been having trouble with your VR3, but when it's working do you use it as a backup to your decoweenie schedules... or do you dive the schedules and have the VR3 as the backup?

Ty

Yea, Delta-P said they'll be sending it home soon, I miss it :)

For big dives I cut tables on V-planner, D-plan, and Weenie, compare them and pick the one that I like best (I like deep stops and extra time at the first gas switch, all of which I can build into most of the table models), talk it out with my buddy/team and we decide together what to use. The VR# is generally a backup.

It's tough to dive the VR3 unless I'm solo (which I really don't do much any more) because it will give a 2 minute stop considerably deeper than most tables will so it puts me out of synch with my buddy or team.

Yea, I wish I had a buddy with a VR3 but like Mole says, attitudes towards computers in American tech circles (not only on this board) are not good. I do feel that the VR3 gives the most complete deco profile of all but the tables will usually get me out of the water a bit sooner.

Tom

[chris_b]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
...this is going to turn into one of those XXX debates...
No, the XXX debate is going on in this thread (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13681) :tease:

[WreckWriter]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I checked out decoweenie. I think I'll get it too. I like the ability to do cave profiles. Like V-planner, it will calculate deco when ascending above your ceiling. When they designed caves they gave no thaught at all to what we would have to do to dive them. It also will do CC. I dive with some folks who have them.

The unregged version is horribly crippled. When you register it you'll love the options it gives.

Tom

[DocRCH]

If you use DPlan (GUE), when you plan a dive, and tap on "report" it will give you a deep deco stop. You can begin deco stops at this depth and take off the time at shallower stops. ( It appears that it begins at approx. 80% of the depth.)


Robert :doctor:

[WreckWriter]

DocRCH once bubbled...
If you use DPlan (GUE), when you plan a dive, and tap on "report" it will give you a deep deco stop. You can begin deco stops at this depth and take off the time at shallower stops. ( It appears that it begins at approx. 80% of the depth.)


Robert :doctor:

Hmmmm.... This doesn't look like a very good option. I planned a dive to 190 for 30 on 18/45. It gives me first stop at 130. When I go to report it gives "140" under "deco max", no stop time. I don't think I'd be comfortable just doing a minute or 2 at 140 and taking it off "somewhere shallower".

Using the same program a much better way to do this is to enter your main bottom plan, then tap "add" and enter your deep stop desired depth and time, then tap "plan" and let it take the time off the shallower stops.

Tom

[MikeFerrara]

If I understand gradient factors what this is saying is that based on the Lo gradient factor 130 is your first stop. But...Offgasing starts at 140. At 140 and above you want to make sure that your ascent speed is at what you have chosen for your deco ascent speed. If you were to modify the profile, as many do, you would not want to stop below 140 because, at least according to the model, you are not offgassing but ongassing. 140 I think is what you would get for a stop depth if your Lo gradient factor was zero. which would be where the leading tissue intersects the ambient presure line.

I may not have explained that well. Check out the articles on the GUE site. There is also some good stuff in the GAP documentation. Both programs use gradient factors.

[WreckWriter]

Yea Mike, that's correct as I understand it. btw, I use 10-90 for GF.

Tom

[MikeFerrara]

I'll run some schedules with those factors and see how they compare with V-planner. I felt real good after diving V-planner with the weenie factor set to 4.

[WreckWriter]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I'll run some schedules with those factors and see how they compare with V-planner. I felt real good after diving V-planner with the weenie factor set to 4.

I've done some pretty aggressive dives with V-planner, it works well. I generally set all my weenie factors to very aggressive/non-conservative then extend my 20 foot stop (I always set last stop to 20)a bit depending on how I feel. Setting the GF like I do gives me deeper stops than the default.

Tom