New name for "DIR"

[Rick Murchison]

I think we can all see that, justifiably or not, the term "DIR" is just simply inflammatory.
"You're not 'Doing it Right'" just raises hackles.
Let's explore some possible alternatives... UP has already suggested "DITTOS RUSH" while Sheck33 has proposed "DIB"...
I'll float a serious proposal here, and simply use "GUES" - for "GUE Standardized."
Since "DIR" is the moniker for GUE standards, it would be accurate, and telling someone they weren't GUE standardized wouldn't carry nearly the baggage of telling 'em they're not "Doing It Right."
Unless, of course, you really do mean to say GUE's way is the only way.
Rick

[MikeFerrara]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...

Unless, of course, you really do mean to say GUE's way is the only way.
Rick

Now your catchin on.

[Scubaroo]

Why not just use the term "GUE approach"? It need not be an acronym. Drop the DIR reference altogether.

[MSilvia]

GUE Optimized Diving

"What are you thinking, cave diving with a 3' hose? You're not GOD!"

Hmmm... maybe still a bit too inflamatory.

:flame:

[Uncle Pug]

bengiddins once bubbled...
Why not just use the term "GUE approach"? It need not be an acronym. Drop the DIR reference altogether.
Why not propose that at your next GUE board meeting.

[Scubaroo]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

Why not propose that up at your next GUE board meeting. Yeah, they might have something to say about people messing with it huh :)

[O-ring]

...what's DIB? Doing it better?

[Rick Murchison]

O-ring once bubbled...
...what's DIB? Doing it better?
Yep... then UP proposed it should mean "Doing it Best" - thus throwing into the same heap as "DIR"...
Rick

[Jarhead]

GUE (pronounced "Gooey")

Or better yet.

DIG (Doing It GUE)

Jarhead

[Iguana Don]

Get so upset at a Marketing Slogan.

Don't we have more important things to worry about.

Geeze, if DIR gets under your skin, I would hate to see what something really screwy does to you.

Just my .02

[WreckWriter]

Way too late. I'm afraid the name, and the battles it generates, is here to stay.

I agree, more or less, with your thinking though.

Tom

[Rick Murchison]

Iguana Don once bubbled...
Why do people get so upset at a Marketing Slogan.

Don't we have more important things to worry about.

Geeze, if DIR gets under your skin, I would hate to see what something really screwy does to you.

Just my .02
It doesn't matter why. Anyone who looks can see it's a "hot button," and gets under lots of people's skin. All it takes is a few jerks with an "I'm doing it right, and you're doing it wrong" attitude - and if you haven't met 'em, just take a look at the little video we recently saw here on this board. Your call for calmness falls on deaf ears when directed at anyone who's been subjected to some of the typical DIR invective spewed from some of its more vocal proponents. So let's turn the question around... Why do you defend such an obnoxious marketing slogan if it isn't worthy of "importance?" Hmmm???
The first rule of effective communication is "The message recieved is the message." And the message of "DIR" is loud and clear, despite the protestations to the contrary.
Don't you have more important things to worry about? Dump "DIR."
Rick

[O-ring]

Simple
Holistic
Integrated
Technique

~or~

Basic
Immersion
Technique
Centrally
Hogarthian


Those would look good on a T-shirt...

[WreckWriter]

O-ring once bubbled...
Simple
Holistic
Integrated
Technique

~or~

Basic
Immersion
Technique
Centrally
Hogarthian


Those would look good on a T-shirt...

from a GUE guy at that! Great Eric!

Tom

[O-ring]

As*hole
Submersion
System

~ or ~

Narrowminded
Anal
Zealots
In
Scuba

~ or ~

George's
Overbearing
Disciples

or keep the original acronym:

Dive
Inspiration
Rebreathers!

Disregard
Individual
Rights

Dissension
Isn't
Right

Diversity
Is
Resistance

Damn
Intolerant
Religion

[Fetch]

LOL.

I can almost guaruntee that the moniker "Doing It Right" was picked with full knowledge of how it would get under people's skins.

I therefore don't see it changing ;)

jeff


Rick Murchison once bubbled...

It doesn't matter why. Anyone who looks can see it's a "hot button," and gets under lots of people's skin. All it takes is a few jerks with an "I'm doing it right, and you're doing it wrong" attitude - and if you haven't met 'em, just take a look at the little video we recently saw here on this board. Your call for calmness falls on deaf ears when directed at anyone who's been subjected to some of the typical DIR invective spewed from some of its more vocal proponents. So let's turn the question around... Why do you defend such an obnoxious marketing slogan if it isn't worthy of "importance?" Hmmm???
The first rule of effective communication is "The message recieved is the message." And the message of "DIR" is loud and clear, despite the protestations to the contrary.
Don't you have more important things to worry about? Dump "DIR."
Rick

[tombiowami]

My take is that people take so many potshots at GUE or DIR because GUE has set a very high standard for themself, and established themselves as a leader. Anyone at the top gets a lot of exposure and potshots from those below.

If it was DIB or anything else it would be getting the same heat, if GI was not around, it would be getting the same heat.


Why does'nt anyone get upset at DiveRite?
There is a picture of the "correct" technical diver on the OMS website, why does'nt anyone get upset there?

No one else has come up with a complete diving system from gear to standards to ways to handle situations. It is easy to hit them because they are very on record with what they think is best.


Tommy

[Iguana Don]

"Dump DIR", Rick, that ain't in the cards. So the best thing for people to do is just deal with it and quit loosing sleep over it.

Ya know, I can't stand Dodge Trucks, but when they came out with their "New Mayor of Truckville" slogan, I didn't start an all out hate campaign against Dodge Trucks. I just still hate them as much as ever, and haven't lost a night's sleep yet.

"Defend it," no, I am not defending it, just can't understand why everybody lets it ruin their day by just mentioning it.

[King Kong Matt]

Iguana Don once bubbled...
Ya know, I can't stand Dodge Trucks, but when they came out with their "New Mayor of Truckville" slogan, I didn't start an all out hate campaign against Dodge Trucks. I just still hate them as much as ever, and haven't lost a night's sleep yet.


With all due respect, I don't think this is an analagous situation. DIR, as a moniker, is far more than a slogan. It is an identity which inherently implies that if you are not a DIR diver, you are not doing it right and you are not diving safely.

In my mind it's the difference between seeing someone with a Harvard t-shirt on, and having that same someone with the t-shirt believe that if you are not educated at Harvard, you are simply an uneducated individual. The first is tolerable and merely represents an advertisement - the second is bound to create a certain amount of controversy.



Iguana Don once bubbled...
"Dump DIR", Rick, that ain't in the cards.

I completely agree with you and I don't think they should. In fact, I don't believe the name is truly the issue. In my mind, the bothersome element of DIR is the blatant bi-polar nature of it all. DIR's left hand tries to convince us that DIR is indeed the one and only way for all of us to dive while the right hand of DIR carries on like an elitist, telling us that we will never pass DIR-F.

It's a bit like our earlier Harvard student who desperately seeks to convince you that Harvard is the only place to go and then reassures you that you could never get in to a school like that.

Just one observer's opinion.

P.S. - For the record and before the flames start, I want to make it clear, I personally happen to like a lot of the things I see in DIR. While I am certainly not a DIR diver, I certainly could see myself moving in that direction. It's not the actual philosophy of DIR that I (and I believe many other divers) question: it's the way in which the debate proceeds that can be a bit irksome.

[Grajan]

Geeze Tommy,

You really don't get it do you?:confused:

Read your own post;

"anyone at the top"

"those below"

THAT is THE problem - not DIR - not the techniqes - not the gear.

Just the pervasive sense of total superiority - so pervasive you dont even know you are doing it.

Get things in perspective - we are all nothing more than VERY small steps on the road. There have never been any final 'final solutions'. There have never been any 'ultimate truths'. Those who proclaim them definitely risk ridicule and isolation - very sad when DIR actually offers so much.

Graham

[WreckWriter]

DIR's left............

Right on the money.

Tom

[Rick Murchison]

Iguana Don once bubbled...
"Dump DIR", Rick, that ain't in the cards.
Why not?
You can plainly see that its use is fully corrupted. You yourself have said it isn't important enough to be of concern. So why cling to it? (I know why, but I want to hear the DIR folks admit it). It certainly isn't accurate. I'm old enough to truly not give a flyin' rat dropping whether anyone else thinks I'm doing it "right" or not (I take that back - some folks' opinions are important to me - just not the same ones you might think). Some days you could actually mistake me for a "DIR" diver, because that's the optimum configuration for some dives. Other days there's no doubt I'm not even close to a GUE configuration, though I'm still doing it (Scuba diving) right. But I have a love of diving - I want to share it, and I hate to see folks assume an elitist attitude that runs people off. I want Scuba to be as inclusive as it can be... many - no, make that most - Scuba divers aren't interested in becoming "Global Underwater Explorers" - they just want to dive for the pure fun of it, for recreation. But everybody wants to do what they're doing "right," and that includes and encompasses a vast, vast array of equipment, procedures and activities that are definitively not "DIR" as defined by GUE.
The slogan is elitist. Either dump it or admit it. (It is also inaccurate, insensitive, inflammatory and exclusionary... but those are just byproducts of its being elitist.)
Rick

[roakey]

I'm not affended by Dive Rite, what's your problem?

I've never seen such a so many so-called "adults" upset by a simple name!

As Joan Rivers would say, "Grow Up!"

Feel free to dislike the methodolgy, but sniping at the name is a hollow gesture. It's an excuse, not your real problem.

Roak

[Rick Murchison]

roakey once bubbled...
I'm not affended by Dive Rite, what's your problem?

I've never seen such a so many so-called "adults" upset by a simple name!

As Joan Rivers would say, "Grow Up!"

Feel free to dislike the methodolgy, but sniping at the name is a hollow gesture. It's an excuse, not your real problem.

Roak
If it's just a simple name, just simply get rid of it. As an adult, getting rid of it shouldn't upset you. But it isn't just a simple name to you, is it? Why don't you grow up and admit you think it really is the only "right" way.
------------------------------
I like the methodology.
Well, except for the ridiculous, dangerous "horizontal ascent." Of course, it'll take someone having their head split from stem to stern on a prop before you'll admit it's not the only way to ascend.
------------------------------
As for "Dive Rite" that's a brand name and a play on words, not an agency motto that claims to be, if I can remember GI's words correctly, "a platform that is integrated completely and accommodates all contingencies and additions, but no phobias."
All contingencies indeed.
Give me a break!
Rick

[JamesK]

I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony!!!!

Oy! This is getting ridiculous. I used to be anti-DIR, in fact you can find some of my posts on this board where I flamed it. However, the more I learned about it, the more I understood it, the more I realized I already was diving very close to DIR in my Hogarthian rig. I already believed in much of it. I do not consider myself a true hardcore DIR diver, because I will dive with someone who is not DIR as long as they are very similarly configured to me, and I feel they are of sound mind. I have also not been GUE trained in anyway, yet.

I used to HATE the DIR name badge, and would lash out against it because of people like GI3, but I have let it go. I realized that I can learn a LOT from GI3, GUE, and DIR. I have used to become what I feel is a better diver. What is wrong with that? I know that there are divers who are not DIR and MUCH better than I am. That is great.

We can spit hairs an ***** all we want. Either you are DIR or your not. Regardless of what you are, dive safe. Make sure you hav ethe best equipment for the job. Last but not least, don't forget to have fun!

[Rockhound]

some of you guys are cracking me up. And some of you are worrying me.

I don't see much wrong with the DIR moniker. It's just a name, and any handle for any diving theory, system or "religion" (if it is that for some) is just that, a handle. Inflexible jerks will remain inflexible jerks no matter what you call them and their membership in a group should not reflect on that group as a whole.

As for intolerant a-holes? I don't think DIR proponents own the market. On most any dive trip I've run across egomaniacs who think whatever philosophy they espouse or whatever gear they dive is the ONLY way to get wet or the only gear to use underwater. Anyone who disagrees with these guys is an idiot in their own narrow minds. I'm a really friendly guy, but I've "bowed up" more than once at some of this crap.

This narrow mindedness is common in "risk" sports. Within the ultralight community you find the some sorts of people. I would bet skydivers, rock climbers and other extreme sports have their share of jerks.

I still don't know much about DIR as a philosophy, although I'm absorbing a bit from this list. Much of what I've learned makes sense to me and reflects changes I've made independantly to my own diving technique over the years (back inflation, simple brass SPG, gauges on wrist), some things make sense upon reflection, and I'll give them a try on day soon (the bungeed second stage...although I did this when I first learned to dive and some panicky guy almost snatched my head off. I think I'll study just HOW the stage is bungeed. I think I used a rubber strap back then.).

Some things I do are definitely poo poo'd by DIR (solo. back mounted pony. air below 100'), although I'm listening to all those arguments against these things and am willing to change....

Okay, since I'm typing stream of consciousness, a DIR type question just occured to me. I was diving in Panama City a few weeks ago and saw some sort of advanced class out on the jetties. They sorta looked DIR, with all black techno outfits, bungeed safe seconds, hoses that looked like they were long enough for Larry's Garage and their masks were on backwards.

My question: Just what is it with the backwards mask thing? I never wear my mask on my head for obvious reasons, and I rarely take if off in the water unless I have a serious booger accumulation, but these guys all had their masks on top of their heads but facing the wrong way.

At first, I thought it was for the "Illusion of Speed", then decided they thought a mask was less likely knocked off if facing in that direction. Unfortunatelyl this orientation forces "extra handling" of the mask to get ready to go down (assuming they don't dive them backwards), which implies and increased risk that a vital piece of equipment would simply get dropped into the blue.

Anyway, there is likely something obvious missing here. I did think it looked cool, as did all that serious looking gear and double tanks (for a 70' dive?). But, regardless, I don't dive to look cool.

I thought about asking them, but I was diving solo, with a pony, I had a pink slap strap and my safe second (oh, lordy) was over the WRONG shoulder. From what many of you guys have said, I thought that if they were DIR, I would have been hauled up on the beach and eviscerated as an example to the unwashed and uninitiated.

BTW, the diving was extra cool on that trip, since they left a whole bunch of weighted hoola hoops on the bottom. It was fun trying to drift through them without touching the sides. (I'm glad they didn't see me doing that. Egads.) Those things were still there the next day, so I hope the whole class didn't drown in some bizarre religious, er, TRAINING exercise.

Kidding. Just kidding.....

[O-ring]

My question: Just what is it with the backwards mask thing? I never wear my mask on my head for obvious reasons, and I rarely take if off in the water unless I have a serious booger accumulation, but these guys all had their masks on top of their heads but facing the wrong way.

At first, I thought it was for the "Illusion of Speed", then decided they thought a mask was less likely knocked off if facing in that direction. Unfortunatelyl this orientation forces "extra handling" of the mask to get ready to go down (assuming they don't dive them backwards), which implies and increased risk that a vital piece of equipment would simply get dropped into the blue.


Ricky,
I think I can tell you why I do this despite the fact that I lost a mask doing this exact thing...and I still do it... Placing your mask on your head facing forward is a common distress signal. Placing your mask around your neck (like I was taught in OW) gets to be a real PITA when you have a backup bungeed around your neck...too much junk in that area. If there is a chance I think I will lose it, I usually just run my arm through the slap strap and clasp my hands on my chest while surface swimming... That being said, I, like you, don't take it off unless I have to (like hanging out on the surface with a class or something).

[WreckWriter]

O-ring once bubbled...
Placing your mask on your head facing forward is a common distress signal.

When was the last time you actually saw someone signal distress this way? PADI has been teaching that for decades but I never saw it done. Agreed, it's a poor idea but only because it makes it easy to lose your mask. Backwards isn't much better.

Tom

[O-ring]

When was the last time you actually saw someone signal distress this way?

Only heard it in PADI...guess I should stay away from stroke training, eh?

;)

[WreckWriter]

O-ring once bubbled...
Only heard it in PADI...guess I should stay away from stroke training, eh?

;)

Yea, that's probably a good idea :)

It is the PADI party line though so you'll have to teach it. It's been my experience that when someone is in distress it'll ussually be pretty obvious. The flailing arms are screaming are often the first clue :)

Tom

[Rockhound]

I didn't know that a forward facing mask was "distress signal", but I always associated this with new, "near panicky" divers at the surface, just from my observations.

I wasn't taught that in my NASTY training, but whenever I see someone with their mask on top of their head offshore, I've assumed they were having some sort of problem.


Now, it makes sense to me, but I think I'll keep my mask on my face or around my neck when at the surface.

When I try the bungeed second stage setup, I might have to go to the backwards mask technique. But, I dont want anyone thinking that I'm trying to look like Sheck Exley. (with the pink slap strap and the yellow AL80, I don't think they will.)

Thanks for the info!

[Uncle Pug]

Rockhound once bubbled...
I don't see much wrong with the DIR moniker. It's just a name,
...but for the Don Quixote crowd it is irresistible.

[O-ring]

It is the PADI party line though so you'll have to teach it.

I ordered my first fin pivot last weekend...never thought I would use that hand signal again...

On the upside, it was really fun working with students.

[Rick Murchison]

O-ring once bubbled...


Only heard it in PADI...guess I should stay away from stroke training, eh?

;)
Just can't resist, can ye?
Rick

[O-ring]

Just can't resist, can ye?

By now we know each other's sense of humor...and I take PADI classes too, so I can talk...albeit a little :)

[WreckWriter]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
...but for the Don Quixote crowd it is irresistible.

Good analogy Pug. You know, there's too many windmills in the world.........

[WreckWriter]

O-ring once bubbled...


I ordered my first fin pivot last weekend...never thought I would use that hand signal again...

On the upside, it was really fun working with students.

It's fun for awhile. I got burned out on it but some folks keep their enthusiasm for teaching forever.

Tom

[Uncle Pug]

WreckWriter once bubbled...
there's too many windmills in the world.
...not according to the millers.
...or the folks who eat the bread.

A matter of perspective?
No....
A matter of mental health.

[Spectre]

Rockhound once bubbled...
My question: Just what is it with the backwards mask thing? I never wear my mask on my head for obvious reasons, and I rarely take if off in the water unless I have a serious booger accumulation, but these guys all had their masks on top of their heads but facing the wrong way.


I almost always have my mask on backwards [in fact I occasionally forget to put it on before I decend, but that makes for nice mask clearing training :)]

Why? First, the mask on my face limits my range of vision as I double check my rig, keep an eye out on everyone as we're grouping up. Around my neck it limits my motion. On my forehead is both uncomfortable, and it causes the mask to be more apt to fog up... [no mask/goggles on forehead is something that came with me from many years skiing].

So the choice is hang it off something, or stick it where it's supposed to be, just backwards [which is how I wear my ski goggles anyway, so I'm used to it].

[MikeFerrara]

The name will remain!
When it comes to business, there are two men that I really admire, Bill Gates and Jarrod Jablonski. Both had the foresight, no, the genius, to identify a significant market opportunity that was all but ignored and unseen by all others. Both have been able to approach the market in such a way as to make significant competition by others difficult. I may not have worded that well so I’ll give an example. It is not difficult to write an operating system but if it can’t run all the MS software nobody will buy it no matter how good it could be. You may have learned proper trim, fining technique and team diving skills but it doesn’t carry the same weight unless you learned it from GUE. I guess the word I’m looking for is “branding”. The term “DIR” along with the arguments and insults are a huge part of what sells the product. Jarrod Jablonski is one of the rare few that have been able to make diving profitable.

[WreckWriter]

Robert Carmichael is JJ's partner in Halcyon and certainly also had a lot to do with the branding of the term.

You're right though, the whole package is the biggest rising star I've ever seen in this industry.

Tom

[Spectre]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
It is not difficult to write an operating system but if it can’t run all the MS software nobody will buy it no matter how good it could be

:box:
Ahhhh!!!! Ok. No. I'm definately not going to get into this one. However I truely hope you don't intend to compare DIR/GUE/Halcyon to Microsoft, as that completely kills all credibility. The closest analogy I've been able to find to fit with MS and Bill Gates is to a drug tzar and his cartel. dependancy == market.

So many words... so much restraint....

[Rick Murchison]

Yew mean if I put my mask on backwards I might be mistaken fer a "DIR" bubba?
AAaaarrrrggghhhh!
Oh, wait, no problem... I usually wear a snorkel.
Whew!
That wuz close!
Rick

[trheeltek]

Is it too late to weigh in on a new name?

One of the guy at our shop proposed the following alternative to DIR:

Doing
It
Correctly

That way, the DIR guys who want to can maintain their superior tone by Doing It Correctly instead, and the rest of us will snicker at them for DIC-ing it up. GI, as a top guy, would of course be a DIC Head; everybody else would just be little DICs. I think this idea has legs.

[Uncle Pug]

you too?? :D

[Diversauras]

Resistance
Is
Futile

or maybe ART FOOD

Anal
Retentive
Traits (Tacticts)
Forced
On
Other
Divers

[Uncle Pug]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...
Yew mean if I put my mask on backwards I might be mistaken fer a "DIR" bubba?

Spectre jumped threads Rick... and you jumped with him.
But at least you were able to hold onto the theme.
Me... I'm sorta threadless...
spreading good cheer where ever I go. :D

[Spectre]

trheeltek once bubbled...
Is it too late to weigh in on a new name?

One of the guy at our shop proposed the following alternative to DIR:

Doing
It
Correctly


I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't give it enough thought to come up with a "K" word to make it a 4 letter acronym!

[JamesK]

That DIC thing is pretty funny! LOL!

[Rick Murchison]

Spectre once bubbled...


I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't give it enough thought to come up with a "K" word to make it a 4 letter acronym!
Oh, I don't know... "Doing It Korrectly" has a certain apropos message in it, don't you think?
Rick

[Cave Diver]

Just out of curiousity, how many DIR and Anti DIR folks have actually taken a GUE class of any kind?

Maybe we should start a poll... Think I will put it in General SCUBA, since DIR isn't just about Tek diving.

DIR Poll (http://www.scubaboard.com/t14109/s.html)

[omar]

Since I have taken a GUE class I can comment here

The
Absolute
Optimum


omar:mean:

[Lost Yooper]

When I first starting getting interested in my currently configuration, it was still called hogarthian. I think it was about 1996 or so that DIR started. I don't care what it's called as long as it works as advertised. Which it does.

I don't think most people have a problem with the name at all, but rather the approach of some vocal proponents. Let's face, it was an elitist group who coined it all (WKPP), and it's an elitist group that currently sells it (GUE). You can pick any sport and the elite of that sport will generally have an arrogance. The scuba industry isn't unique in this regard. The bottom line... it's the message that matters not the messengers tone.

Ask yourself why they are the elite and if what they do can be incorporated into your diving. If it works for them and their extreme dives, will it work for your weenie dives? My answer was yes, and my level of enjoyment underwater sky rocketed. IMO, arguing over a name is rediculas, particularly when the merits speak for themselves.

It all comes down to whom you wish to learn from... those that do or those that don't.

Mike

[Rick Murchison]

Lost Yooper once bubbled...
IMO, arguing over a name is rediculas
So we can count you in on the switch to "DIK" right?
Rick

[O-ring]

You can call me a stroke and you can be DIR:

Doing
It
Rick's Way

ok?

[Uncle Pug]

...with the self depreciation and effacement... it won't solve their problem.

[Lost Yooper]

If one can get the entire industry to call it DIK, then have it ;). How about someone ask George and JJ if they would be so kind as to change it, so nobody's feelings get hurt any longer ;-0. Please post their reponse so we can all get a good laugh in :D.

Yoose guyz crack me up!

Mike

[O-ring]

What do we call everyone else since they hate "stroke". They need an acronym too...

How about POS?

Preference
Over
Standardization

[JamesK]

O-ring once bubbled...
What do we call everyone else since they hate "stroke". They need an acronym too...

How about POS?

Preference
Over
Standardization

LOL! Now that is the funniest thing I have read in a long time!!!!

[Rick Murchison]

Lost Yooper once bubbled...
If one can get the entire industry to call it DIK, then have it ;). How about someone ask George and JJ if they would be so kind as to change it, so nobody's feelings get hurt any longer ;-0. Please post their reponse so we can all get a good laugh in :D.

Yoose guyz crack me up!

Mike
You mean you think it's important to them? I think it is too. To you, too. But it shouldn't be important to anyone else, right? Yes... yes, I'm beginning to see...
Are you?
Rick

[O-ring]

You mean you think it's important to them? I think it is too.

Wouldn't you love to be holding on to the reins of what makes up DIR? It's probably the most valuable "brand" (if you can call it that yet) in diving today...

Think about it...you sell them on the system, then you sell them the gear, then you sell them the training (not necessarily in that order)...doesn't make the system bad, but may make the owner(s) wealthy in the process..

[Lost Yooper]

It's a marketing slogan, of course it's important to them. I couldn't care less what's it called, but I'll continue to use the name as a means of identification and communication.

Mike

[Uncle Pug]

O-ring once bubbled...
Wouldn't you love to be holding on to the reins of what makes up DIR?
Notice how much bandwidth is not being consumed discussing the merits of *Dive Rite*?

DIR is consuming bandwidth for a reason... and it is more than marketing... though certainly that comes into play... but the very fact that the acronym gets a negative response serves to get DIR more exposure!

Thanks fifth column folk.

[Lost Yooper]

BINGO!

Merits of Dive Rite... hmmm... :D.

Mike

[Rick Murchison]

Ok, guys, you've provided the perfect solution to all objections both pro and con "DIR"
Change it to "Doing it Rite"
Won't do it, will you?
Didn't think so.
Rick

[Uncle Pug]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...
Ok, guys, you've provided the perfect solution to all objections both pro and con "DIR"
Change it to "Doing it Rite"
Won't do it, will you?
Didn't think so.
Rick
Why sure Rick... if this helps you... yes... we will all mean "Doing It Rite" whenever we use the acronym DIR.

There.

See how easily that was solved?

And don't you feel better now.

[detroit diver]

O-ring once bubbled...


Wouldn't you love to be holding on to the reins of what makes up DIR? It's probably the most valuable "brand" (if you can call it that yet) in diving today...

Think about it...you sell them on the system, then you sell them the gear, then you sell them the training (not necessarily in that order)...doesn't make the system bad, but may make the owner(s) wealthy in the process..

O-ring,

I don't know what JJ is making on Halcyon equipment, but I assure you that no one is getting rich teaching the GUE DIR course. The typical course fee is $275.00. $200 of that goes to the instructors. They're gone every weekend, from Friday morning thru Sunday nite. There's usually 2-3 instructors, plus assistants for video and line placement. By the time you spread out the funds, there isn't much left. This is done for the love of the sport.

As far as I know, none of the instructors have a financial stake in Halcyon. And Halcyon isn't the only manufacturer making BP's and wings, harness's, etc.

I forgot to add-

The remaining $75.00 goes for airfare, hotels, food, fills, entrance fees, classroom rental fees, gas, etc. If you only have 6 students, $450 is not going to cover the above. It's coming out of someone's pocket-and it's not the student's pockets.

[MikeFerrara]

The cost I was given was 300/student plus expenses. Some of the instructors are doing this full time. I'm sure it's not the highest paying job around and I'm sure they love the sport but they are making a living. Making a living is getting about impossible in this business especially if you want to do it well. As far as I'm concerned the whole thing is ok. Better diving is good. Good products should sell. Good marketing and good ideas should make money. Not unique to DIR but people who's only knowlege comes from reading a book or two and maybe one class in the basics should just maybe not talk as loud.

[detroit diver]

It changes from city to city, depending on the assumed costs involved. Our's was $275.00

[Lost Yooper]

Hey Mike,

That was Brandon Schwarts that told me $300 for the DIRF class in Detroit this fall. I relayed that price to you this past weekend when we were diving at Gilboa. Don't let the money come between you and class. I guarentee you'll benefit from it. I'd take it again if I could buy the time.

Mike

[MikeFerrara]

I was given the same price by Tyler Moon. Cost isn't an issue. We just want to put on a class through our shop and setting up dates hasn't been easy. Tyler has november open but I'm afraid that would exclude a lot of people with wet suits. Now I guess it will be next year.